The Official Allardyce out thread

[Papa Lazaru 0]

a manager who would field his strongest possible team and play people in their right positions would not be getting the grief sam is getting right now

 

Most Newcastle fans are sensible and we know it's going to take time, but is it to much to ask for the above?

 

Exactly. The intelligent fans knew the club needed changing from top to bottom and that it would take time to really challenge the top clubs to any degree, we were just looking for steady signs of progress and that we were goign somewhere whilst he instigated his revolution.

 

But if you keep playing stupid tactics home and away that are patently not working, play people out of position for no reason rendering them useless, practically ask to get beat at home and make joke substitutions then people won't give you much time.

 

I don't want a sacking as we just cant do that again leaving us in an even bigger mess and making the job look even less attractive, you can only do that if Ashley knows he has somebody top class lined up for sure, and even then its a big upheaval during the season.

[Jimbo 175]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

If the fans turn on the manager within 13 games then why would a top manager want to come here?

 

Off the top of my head.

 

Premier League football

Billionaire owner

The challenge

Ego

Excellent squad (believe it or not)

World class training facilities

Money

50,000 Fans that will love you if you play effective football.

[Row Z 0]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

[Jimbo 175]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

 

Off the top of my head

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld ?

 

Alex McLeish ?

 

Quique Florres ?

 

Marcello Lippi ?

 

Michael Laudrup ?

 

Co Adriaanse ?

[Ketsbaia 0]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

 

Off the top of my head

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld ?

 

Alex McLeish ?

 

Quique Florres ?

 

Marcello Lippi ?

 

Michael Laudrup ?

 

Co Adriaanse ?

 

McLeish is the only realistic one out of that lot and IMO, he's no great shakes.

[Jimbo 175]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

 

Off the top of my head

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld ?

 

Alex McLeish ?

 

Quique Florres ?

 

Marcello Lippi ?

 

Michael Laudrup ?

 

Co Adriaanse ?

 

McLeish is the only realistic one out of that lot and IMO, he's no great shakes.

 

Do you think he could manage the seemingly monumental task of picking a decent starting XI and formation and then produce the sporting miracle that is substituting the right players ?

[sammynb 3355]

Here's a thought, maybe Allardyce should be moved into a director of football role.

It's obvious that tactically there are some issues but at the same time everyone knows his approach to the background work is second to none.

I even think his eye for scouting players is quite good, unfortunately he doesn't know how to use them other than to tell them to run around in circles a lot.

This way the club avoids any embarrassment sacking him 13 games in, they could hire a foreign manager but still have an experienced source of input working with them.

[Happy Face 29]

everyone knows his approach to the background work is second to none.

 

 

Do they?

 

It's all smoke and mirrors imo.

[Ketsbaia 0]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

 

Off the top of my head

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld ?

 

Alex McLeish ?

 

Quique Florres ?

 

Marcello Lippi ?

 

Michael Laudrup ?

 

Co Adriaanse ?

 

McLeish is the only realistic one out of that lot and IMO, he's no great shakes.

 

Do you think he could manage the seemingly monumental task of picking a decent starting XI and formation and then produce the sporting miracle that is substituting the right players ?

 

Possibly, but do you think he'd be able to get the best out of a side of which most haven't played with each other before and a lot of others haven't played in this league before? Also, do you think he'd be given more than 13 games to create his own team?

 

No, he wouldn't.

[Jimbo 175]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

 

Off the top of my head

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld ?

 

Alex McLeish ?

 

Quique Florres ?

 

Marcello Lippi ?

 

Michael Laudrup ?

 

Co Adriaanse ?

 

McLeish is the only realistic one out of that lot and IMO, he's no great shakes.

 

Do you think he could manage the seemingly monumental task of picking a decent starting XI and formation and then produce the sporting miracle that is substituting the right players ?

 

Possibly, but do you think he'd be able to get the best out of a side of which most haven't played with each other before and a lot of others haven't played in this league before? Also, do you think he'd be given more than 13 games to create his own team?

 

No, he wouldn't.

 

 

I find it funny that people are using the 13 games thing as an excuse for Allardyce, 13 games in which he has brought in several of his own players yet made us worse than under Souness or Roeder.

 

When a manager loses the dressing room, it doesn't matter if he's had 13 matches or 1300, he's got to go.

[Ketsbaia 0]

So Newcastle has become a job no body wants ? don't make me laugh, a Premier League club with a Billionaire owner, you'd be pleasantly surprised with you we could attract.

 

 

Who then!! Im still waiting on a name

 

Off the top of my head

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld ?

 

Alex McLeish ?

 

Quique Florres ?

Marcello Lippi ?

 

Michael Laudrup ?

 

Co Adriaanse ?

 

McLeish is the only realistic one out of that lot and IMO, he's no great shakes.

 

Do you think he could manage the seemingly monumental task of picking a decent starting XI and formation and then produce the sporting miracle that is substituting the right players ?

 

Possibly, but do you think he'd be able to get the best out of a side of which most haven't played with each other before and a lot of others haven't played in this league before? Also, do you think he'd be given more than 13 games to create his own team?

 

No, he wouldn't.

 

 

I find it funny that people are using the 13 games thing as an excuse for Allardyce, 13 games in which he has brought in several of his own players yet made us worse than under Souness or Roeder.

 

When a manager loses the dressing room, it doesn't matter if he's had 13 matches or 1300, he's got to go.

 

Allardyce is the first manager we've had in frig kna's how long who's actually had a pre-season to toy and tinker with the side. Positive because he manages to get a chance to buy his players and get a fresh start but negative because there is this whole idea of how our lack of success recently can be attributed to sacking managers 4 games in to the season etc. etc.

 

Roeder, Souness came in and experienced an inflated honeymoon period because they inherited a side who were motivated and had played together. Allardyce's signings look positive but need time to gel as a team. 13 games should be long enough but a lot of them have barely played together, our defence being one of the main victims. I'll be the first to admit he's made a few poor decision tactically but he's the first manager since Sir Bob with some pedigree behind him when it comes to management.

 

As if our reputation isn't poor enough, sacking a manager 13 games in certainly isn't going to help it. Any self respecting, world class manager knows unless he's walking into a side like Milan, Barca, Man United etc he's going to need time, something they wont get here. I can't see any manager coming here unless they're on a big, fat contract that'll get paid out on when they're forced out because certain people get itchy feet when we don't instantly start playing Arsenal like football.

 

There was a thread on here just after the Bolton match when BSA came out and said that there was going to be some very rough times and rather than the booing and jeering, we needed to support. Funnily enough, I can also remember the lions share of people on this board agreeing that this is what we needed to do. Fickle fuckers.

[Jimbo 175]

Is it fickle to be able to recognise early that we have made a mistake in appointing a manager ? There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Allardyce is making any progress at all, infact we are getting worse and worse as the matches go on and utterly no evidence that Allardyce is learning anything about his players in terms of which ones he should be selecting.

 

With every passing match Allardyce is looking more and more like a square peg in a round hole, and in tern he seems to be alienating the crowd and losing the players belief, his own signings are progressively looking like bad buys which will not be giving Mike Ashley any confidence in giving Allardyce the funds to turn it around if indeed he can.

 

The sooner we admit we've fucked up the better and let Allardyce go off and manage a little club somewhere else which is at his level.

[sammynb 3355]

everyone knows his approach to the background work is second to none.

 

 

Do they?

 

It's all smoke and mirrors imo.

You are probably right.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Is it fickle to be able to recognise early that we have made a mistake in appointing a manager ? There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Allardyce is making any progress at all, infact we are getting worse and worse as the matches go on and utterly no evidence that Allardyce is learning anything about his players in terms of which ones he should be selecting.

 

With every passing match Allardyce is looking more and more like a square peg in a round hole, and in tern he seems to be alienating the crowd and losing the players belief, his own signings are progressively looking like bad buys which will not be giving Mike Ashley any confidence in giving Allardyce the funds to turn it around if indeed he can.

 

The sooner we admit we've fucked up the better and let Allardyce go off and manage a little club somewhere else which is at his level.

I hate fucking blaming injuries but we can't honestly expect to see what Allardyce is learning until he's got close to a full strength squad.

 

I can only think of Smith off the top of my head as being a 'bad buy'. There was almost a collective thwapathon on here with some of the buts he made over the summer. Good players don't turn into bad players. As they say form is temporary, class is permanent and since the Pompy game we've hit a brick wall. Yes, we weren't playing brilliant prior to that but we managed to get results.

 

Your last sentence just strikes me as quite pompous. We may not be a 'little club' but we're certainly not as big as some people want to believe we are.

[Jimbo 175]

Is it fickle to be able to recognise early that we have made a mistake in appointing a manager ? There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Allardyce is making any progress at all, infact we are getting worse and worse as the matches go on and utterly no evidence that Allardyce is learning anything about his players in terms of which ones he should be selecting.

 

With every passing match Allardyce is looking more and more like a square peg in a round hole, and in tern he seems to be alienating the crowd and losing the players belief, his own signings are progressively looking like bad buys which will not be giving Mike Ashley any confidence in giving Allardyce the funds to turn it around if indeed he can.

 

The sooner we admit we've fucked up the better and let Allardyce go off and manage a little club somewhere else which is at his level.

I hate fucking blaming injuries but we can't honestly expect to see what Allardyce is learning until he's got close to a full strength squad.

 

I can only think of Smith off the top of my head as being a 'bad buy'. There was almost a collective thwapathon on here with some of the buts he made over the summer. Good players don't turn into bad players. As they say form is temporary, class is permanent and since the Pompy game we've hit a brick wall. Yes, we weren't playing brilliant prior to that but we managed to get results.

 

Your last sentence just strikes me as quite pompous. We may not be a 'little club' but we're certainly not as big as some people want to believe we are.

 

 

I totally agree, I just think the Allardyce thrived under the conditions at Bolton, small budget, lowish expectations from the fans, now he's got money to burn in the transfer market and is in a pressure-cooker environment in comparison, he is floundering.

[Tribal 0]

apologies if it's posted, but reading this makes me think it's only a matter of time before he goes.

 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/sport/story...2216723,00.html

[Guest Patrokles]

I thought an interesting point was made in the commentary- is Allardyce caught between two the two stools of trying to play the football he knows the fans would prefer, and the kind he knows that works? It's so unusual that the team is clearly so poor, and lacks solidity, given what we saw at Bolton. It's not an excuse, and I have massive doubts about him, but I think it's interesting to think about why he's dropped the system that worked for him at Bolton to experiment with so many others here. He has a huge ego, and there's a part of me that can't help but believe he's trying to answer the critics by implementing a system completely alien to him. Ergo, what we've been seeing recently.

[sammynb 3355]

I thought an interesting point was made in the commentary- is Allardyce caught between two the two stools of trying to play the football he knows the fans would prefer, and the kind he knows that works? It's so unusual that the team is clearly so poor, and lacks solidity, given what we saw at Bolton. It's not an excuse, and I have massive doubts about him, but I think it's interesting to think about why he's dropped the system that worked for him at Bolton to experiment with so many others here. He has a huge ego, and there's a part of me that can't help but believe he's trying to answer the critics by implementing a system completely alien to him. Ergo, what we've been seeing recently.

Not sure who you guys had for the commentary team but we had Alan Parry and Efan Ekoku (that man would get it wrong commentating on grass growing) and it makes the shit football twice as frustating listing to those two clueless twats.

[Guest alex]

I don't think there's any chance of us going down, even after yesterday. He should stay until the summer at least. If things haven't improved we can sort it out then. Sacking Allardyce will put us right back to square one imo.

[Gemmill 44796]

I don't think there's any chance of us going down, even after yesterday. He should stay until the summer at least. If things haven't improved we can sort it out then. Sacking Allardyce will put us right back to square one imo.

 

Aye. The atmosphere yesterday was fucking weird. Fans applauding the Liverpool fans singing "you're getting sacked in the morning" ffs. A stadium full of thick sheep.

[Guest alex]

I don't think there's any chance of us going down, even after yesterday. He should stay until the summer at least. If things haven't improved we can sort it out then. Sacking Allardyce will put us right back to square one imo.

 

Aye. The atmosphere yesterday was fucking weird. Fans applauding the Liverpool fans singing "you're getting sacked in the morning" ffs. A stadium full of thick sheep.

I applauded that then realised no one sitting around me would twig I was being sarcastic

[Gemmill 44796]

I don't think there's any chance of us going down, even after yesterday. He should stay until the summer at least. If things haven't improved we can sort it out then. Sacking Allardyce will put us right back to square one imo.

 

Aye. The atmosphere yesterday was fucking weird. Fans applauding the Liverpool fans singing "you're getting sacked in the morning" ffs. A stadium full of thick sheep.

I applauded that then realised no one sitting around me would twig I was being sarcastic

 

The intelligent:braindead ratio at SJP diminishes on a weekly basis it seems like to me. We were fucking dreadful yesterday mind, and it'll have been noted by Ashley and Mort the depth of bad feeling that there apparently is towards Allardyce, but sacking him now would be rank stupidity, and I don't think they're as weak-minded as Shepherd (or a good portion of the fans), so hopefully he gets til the end of the season. Incredible that 5 or 6 games ago everyone was loving him and now they want him out.

[JawD 99]

Be the same people that were singing Walking in a Souness Wonderland during our decent run in the UEFA Cup.

 

Id echo the thoughts that it would be a potential disaster to sack Sam right now.

 

I dont like his football one bit, its what I feared it could be like when he came. But like I keep saying Id take the poor football if it came with winning football. Very little evidence of that though. Or the mentality that came with his last club. He has alot to do to get things going his way here. Whether he gets that time I dont know.

 

Sounds like Rafa could be looking for a new job though

[peasepud 59]

We talk about needing Sam here because of the restructuring and bringing thie backroom methods into the 21st century but it doesnt need a manager to do that it requires a consultant. Consultants exist in every other part of business so why not sports science? Even if this was done to give BSA time to concentrate on the football side then it would be a bonus.

 

I've quickly come to the conclusion that this marriage is dying, personally I would always want us to be stable and not following the old Shepherd route of sacking managers but at the same time if you know something isnt working then its best to part company. Whats the alternative? continue on watching us lose games because the man at the top doesnt want to play two wingers? or insists on removing one of the few creative players we had on the pitch when our heads are down?

 

We were never going to win yesterday, I at least expected to see us turn up

 

Heres a list of potential managers who would have made better decisions yesterday > Clicky

[JawD 99]

Id honestly just like to hear his thinking behind starting Geremi as a RWB (or at least Zog was a WB and Geremi seemed to play more like a FB), also on subbing Emre for Barton and incredibly Milner for Zog. Each one made me progressively baffled. Fuck the off the field science, what about on it !