Lest we forget

[Fop 1]

Dunno about anyonse else but I for one will never forget the utter horror caused by the accusation that most people have already forgotten the utter horror of World War I.

 

[Fop 1]

If you meant people don't know as much about WWI as previous generations I agree. It's the idea of 'forgetting' I can't agree with. I mean, you only forget something you already knew about, therefore I think to suggest 'forgetting' is to imply there are people who knew about that horror that took place but don't 'honour' the dead with 'remembrance', if you know what I mean. I.e. people are choosing to no longer remember. I don't think that is what you meant but I think it is perhaps that inference that got people upset.

 

No as I said that's not what I mean, I don't think people are choosing to no longer remember (or even not to not remember at all).

 

But again as I said as the old guys go (which is sad in itself and the end of something in and of itself), so do our last direct contacts with something incredible terrible and something with which we could well do with always remembering and knowing (it's hard I know, as I said even WW2 is being changed and even stuff like the retained death camps can't convey the true picture of what that was like), and not even necessarily directly soldiers, but even through the experience of civilians of the time.

 

 

 

But as to what people want to think I said that has next to nothing to do with what I actually said, that much is crystal clear (and has much more to do with the moustachioed villain than anything I wrote).

[Guest alex]

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Which was the war we (the British) introduced Concentration camps in? Was it the Boer War? We seem to forget about that on Rememberance Sunday.

[Meenzer 15432]

The thrust of your original post notwithstanding, what's the solution, anyway? (That's a question to the room, not just to Fop.) Is it even possible to remember in the way you describe once the first-hand witnesses have all died out? Or are we simply teaching it all wrong?

[sweetleftpeg 0]

The thrust of your original post notwithstanding, what's the solution, anyway? (That's a question to the room, not just to Fop.) Is it even possible to remember in the way you describe once the first-hand witnesses have all died out? Or are we simply teaching it all wrong?

 

Blackadder Goes Forth on the National Curriculum says I.

[Fop 1]

Which was the war we (the British) introduced Concentration camps in? Was it the Boer War? We seem to forget about that on Rememberance Sunday.

 

Think it was the Spanish who invented in its modern context (although I suspect you'll find examples of something similar going back as far as human history), although the British certainly nicked the idea and used them in South Africa (although neither were quite the same thing as the Nazi's or the Japanese used in WW2).

 

The thrust of your original post notwithstanding, what's the solution, anyway? (That's a question to the room, not just to Fop.) Is it even possible to remember in the way you describe once the first-hand witnesses have all died out? Or are we simply teaching it all wrong?

 

Good question, and to some degree its unanswerable (or unsolvable). I guess good teaching of such things (and by that I don't mean facts, dates and figures alone to get X% in an exam), and perhaps a bit more of a cultural respect for history, along perhaps supporting and creating things like the Holocaust camps to give direct examples.

But I guess the "best" way would be to start WW3, probably not the best all around solution though.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Fop

[Happy Face 29]

I think the confusion might have come from your use of the word "already" in your first post. It suggested to me you believe generations that have followed have let down their memory, rather than being a lament that there are very few left with any memory of the time.

[Fop 1]

I think the confusion might have come from your use of the word "already" in your first post. It suggested to me you believe generations that have followed have let down their memory, rather than being a lament that there are very few left with any memory of the time.

 

Still picking through the bones, trying to drag some meat out I see.

 

That's your (quite loaded and biased) interpretation; remembering them without their direct experience doesn't let down their memory, but equally it doesn't necessarily mean you understand what they went though, or carry with you the lessons of their experience (or the wider lessons of the time), but that doesn't make the act of remembrance any the less (it just increases the likelihood of making the same mistakes again).

 

And as the old guys go so do the direct contacts with that time, experience and chance to understand.

[RlCO 0]

"People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1"

 

Only 5 people are still alive who were there.

 

On that basis I still think you're post was utterly pointless, misplaced, arrogant and patronising.

[Guest alex]

Wehay!

[snakehips 0]

Wehay!

 

.....and so to bed.

 

Make wehay whilst the sun is shining.

 

Lock this thread.

[Fop 1]

"People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1"

 

Only 5 people are still alive who were there.

 

On that basis I still think you're post was utterly pointless, misplaced, arrogant and patronising.

 

Care to explain

 

I'll even help you.

 

1. utterly pointless: why?

 

2. misplaced: how?

 

3. arrogant: how?

 

4. patronising: how?

 

(5. will Alex spot your mistake and/or comment on it? )

Edited November 16, 2007 by Fop

[Happy Face 29]

"People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1"

 

Only 5 people are still alive who were there.

 

On that basis I still think you're post was utterly pointless, misplaced, arrogant and patronising.

 

Care to explain

 

I'll even help you.

 

1. utterly pointless: why?

 

2. misplaced: how?

 

3. arrogant: how?

 

4. patronising: how?

 

(5. will Alex spot your mistake and/or comment on it? )

 

On the basis he posted above. Why do you persist in asking for clarification but provide none of your own?

 

WUM innit.

[Fop 1]

"People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1"

 

Only 5 people are still alive who were there.

 

On that basis I still think you're post was utterly pointless, misplaced, arrogant and patronising.

 

Care to explain

 

I'll even help you.

 

1. utterly pointless: why?

 

2. misplaced: how?

 

3. arrogant: how?

 

4. patronising: how?

 

(5. will Alex spot your mistake and/or comment on it? )

 

On the basis he posted above. Why do you persist in asking for clarification but provide none of your own?

 

WUM innit.

 

I'm not the one making (baseless) accusations am I. Plus I've posted plenty of clarification and got NONE in return.

[Guest alex]

I see Harry Potter is playing Rudyard Kipling's son btw (killed on his first day in action).

[Fop 1]

I see Harry Potter is playing Rudyard Kipling's son btw (killed on his first day in action).

 

Apparently I am some how to blame for that. My powers are truly amazing it has to be said.

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?showtopic=16836

[Guest alex]

Ah, already been on I see. That's the trouble with Sunday Times, it takes you a week to read it. Any good then? Btw Fop, does everything have to be about YOU?

[manc-mag 1]

"People have already pretty much completely forgotten the utter horror of WW1"

 

Only 5 people are still alive who were there.

 

On that basis I still think you're post was utterly pointless, misplaced, arrogant and patronising.

 

RICO is pissed again!

[snakehips 0]

Ah, already been on I see. That's the trouble with Sunday Times, it takes you a week to read it. Any good then? Btw Fop, does everything have to be about YOU?

 

It was canny good. The bloke playing R. Kipling played a good part imo.

 

Rudyard Kipling was a classic example of being pro-war (for all the glory etc) only to change completely once his son was killed. He obviously forgot the horrors of it all.

[Guest alex]

Was it the same bloke who played him in 'The Man Who Would Be King'? I like a bit of continuity.

[snakehips 0]

Was it the same bloke who played him in 'The Man Who Would Be King'? I like a bit of continuity.

 

I recall the film (M. Caine), but can't recall Kipling

[Fop 1]

Ah, already been on I see. That's the trouble with Sunday Times, it takes you a week to read it. Any good then? Btw Fop, does everything have to be about YOU?

 

Apparently so (I'm mentioned in many threads it seems - by use of my dark powers, of course).

 

And I'd prefer it if you referred to me by my given title Darth Fop from now on. *waves hand*

[Guest alex]

Ah, already been on I see. That's the trouble with Sunday Times, it takes you a week to read it. Any good then? Btw Fop, does everything have to be about YOU?

 

Apparently so (I'm mentioned in many threads it seems - by use of my dark powers, of course).

 

And I'd prefer it if you referred to me by my given title Darth Fop from now on. *waves hand*

Use the schwartz.

[manc-mag 1]

Was it the same bloke who played him in 'The Man Who Would Be King'? I like a bit of continuity.

 

I recall the film (M. Caine), but can't recall Kipling

 

That's not surprising; not a lot of people know that.