Patience is a virtue!

[Guest alex]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

In the two seasons he finished in charge we finished higher than in the season before he took over and higher than we were at the point he took over. So either way he was a better caretaker and full time manager than the previous incumbent.

 

No-one wants to get in a Roeder discussion again though. Just pointing out the impatience of Newcastle fans, even improvement isn't good enough, unless it's massive.

Yeah, I don't really agree but let's not do this one again eh?

[Baggio 0]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

I don't think we would, I think we would be around the same position we're in now, especially if he spent £25 million like Allardyce did.

[Guest alex]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

I don't think we would, I think we would be around the same position we're in now, especially if he spent £25 million like Allardyce did.

Allardyce's net spend wasn't that, was it? And I'm not too confident re: Roeder's ability in the transfer market regardless of funds.

[Row Z 0]

Surely taking Bolton into Europe should be considered a success? Bolton also used to beat Arsenal and Liverpool on a regular basis... i'd settle for the same here!

Edited November 5, 2007 by Row Z

[Happy Face 29]

Surely taking Bolton into Europe should be considered a success? Bolton also used to beat Arsenal and Liverpool on a regular basis... i'd settle for the same here!

 

Overachieving when there are low expectations is easier than achieving initially high expectations.

[Baggio 0]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

I don't think we would, I think we would be around the same position we're in now, especially if he spent £25 million like Allardyce did.

Allardyce's net spend wasn't that, was it? And I'm not too confident re: Roeder's ability in the transfer market regardless of funds.

 

His net spend was about £12 million, on the down side Roeder wouldn't have sold Parker and bought Barton, on the plus side we would have kept Dyer and not bought Smith, swings and roundabouts. You also have the Shepherd affect and how much influence he had in the transfer market, apparently he made a right mess of the Wayne Bridge transfer after the player agreed to join us.

 

One thing I've noticed is that at this stage last season we had conceded less goals than we have so far this year, even though we had played both Man Utd and Liverpool on their grounds, so much for sorting the defence.

[Fop 1]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

The thing is Roeder had largely lost it and lost the dressing room by the end of last season, BUT a lot of that goes back to the ridiculous injures we had last season compounded by the relentless negative pressure the guy had most ALL of last season.

 

Without those injuries things might have been different (although I couldn't have seen him doing what Allardyce is hoped to be able to do even without).

 

The thing is I reckon Allardyce is only a loss at Sunderland (or a few losses elsewhere) from going in a similar direction as Roeder and once a manager is more concerned with fighting the press and the fans than anything else, they are probably doomed.

[Happy Face 29]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

[Baggio 0]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

The thing is Roeder had largely lost it and lost the dressing room by the end of last season, BUT a lot of that goes back to the ridiculous injures we had last season compounded by the relentless negative pressure the guy had most ALL of last season.

 

Without those injuries things might have been different (although I couldn't have seen him doing what Allardyce is hoped to be able to do even without).

 

The thing is I reckon Allardyce is only a loss at Sunderland (or a few losses elsewhere) from going in a similar direction as Roeder and once a manager is more concerned with fighting the press and the fans than anything else, they are probably doomed.

 

People moan about Roeder using injuries as an excuse but he was right, his problem was he mentioned it every day.

 

How many more points would we have picked up last season if Owen had been fit more often than not? quite a few I reckon considering we had to play Rossi and Duff up front at times, shame Boro wouldn't sell us Viduka which would have softened the blow.

[Fop 1]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

The thing is Roeder had largely lost it and lost the dressing room by the end of last season, BUT a lot of that goes back to the ridiculous injures we had last season compounded by the relentless negative pressure the guy had most ALL of last season.

 

Without those injuries things might have been different (although I couldn't have seen him doing what Allardyce is hoped to be able to do even without).

 

The thing is I reckon Allardyce is only a loss at Sunderland (or a few losses elsewhere) from going in a similar direction as Roeder and once a manager is more concerned with fighting the press and the fans than anything else, they are probably doomed.

 

People moan about Roeder using injuries as an excuse but he was right, his problem was he mentioned it every day.

 

How many more points would we have picked up last season if Owen had been fit more often than not? quite a few I reckon considering we had to play Rossi and Duff up front at times, shame Boro wouldn't sell us Viduka which would have softened the blow.

 

Aye well his big problem was saying "I won't use injuries as an excuse" at the beginning of the season when we had a fairly decent injury crisis going, but that left him on a hiding to nothing as our injury crisis amazingly continued unabated and even deepened massively post-Xmas for the rest of the season.

 

He backed himself into a corner and the fans and the press just got more and more aggressive over the season with him, and there was very little he could really say or do that would placate them. By the end of the season he seemed more like a WW1 shell shock casualty than anything else.

 

Which is what worries me about Allardyce, he may not be the man to take us back to glory day (or nearly glory days), but I wonder if he'll even be given the chance to try before the feeding frenzy begins.

[Happy Face 29]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

The thing is Roeder had largely lost it and lost the dressing room by the end of last season, BUT a lot of that goes back to the ridiculous injures we had last season compounded by the relentless negative pressure the guy had most ALL of last season.

 

Without those injuries things might have been different (although I couldn't have seen him doing what Allardyce is hoped to be able to do even without).

 

The thing is I reckon Allardyce is only a loss at Sunderland (or a few losses elsewhere) from going in a similar direction as Roeder and once a manager is more concerned with fighting the press and the fans than anything else, they are probably doomed.

 

People moan about Roeder using injuries as an excuse but he was right, his problem was he mentioned it every day.

 

How many more points would we have picked up last season if Owen had been fit more often than not? quite a few I reckon considering we had to play Rossi and Duff up front at times, shame Boro wouldn't sell us Viduka which would have softened the blow.

 

Aye well his big problem was saying "I won't use injuries as an excuse" at the beginning of the season when we had a fairly decent injury crisis going, but that left him on a hiding to nothing as our injury crisis amazingly continued unabated and even deepened massively post-Xmas for the rest of the season.

 

He backed himself into a corner and the fans and the press just got more and more aggressive over the season with him, and there was very little he could really say or do that would placate them. By the end of the season he seemed more like a WW1 shell shock casualty than anything else.

 

Which is what worries me about Allardyce, he may not be the man to take us back to glory day (or nearly glory days), but I wonder if he'll even be given the chance to try before the feeding frenzy begins.

 

I reckon tactics wise they're on about the same level, but allardyce talks a far better game and uses smoke and mirrors to convince people he's a scientist of the game barely matched by professor Wenger. He'll be far better at facing down his accusors.

 

Which isn't a dig by the way, if he can convince the changing room/fans he knows what he's doing he's half way there. It's all about confidence.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Happy Face

[Baggio 0]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

The thing is Roeder had largely lost it and lost the dressing room by the end of last season, BUT a lot of that goes back to the ridiculous injures we had last season compounded by the relentless negative pressure the guy had most ALL of last season.

 

Without those injuries things might have been different (although I couldn't have seen him doing what Allardyce is hoped to be able to do even without).

 

The thing is I reckon Allardyce is only a loss at Sunderland (or a few losses elsewhere) from going in a similar direction as Roeder and once a manager is more concerned with fighting the press and the fans than anything else, they are probably doomed.

 

People moan about Roeder using injuries as an excuse but he was right, his problem was he mentioned it every day.

 

How many more points would we have picked up last season if Owen had been fit more often than not? quite a few I reckon considering we had to play Rossi and Duff up front at times, shame Boro wouldn't sell us Viduka which would have softened the blow.

 

Aye well his big problem was saying "I won't use injuries as an excuse" at the beginning of the season when we had a fairly decent injury crisis going, but that left him on a hiding to nothing as our injury crisis amazingly continued unabated and even deepened massively post-Xmas for the rest of the season.

 

He backed himself into a corner and the fans and the press just got more and more aggressive over the season with him, and there was very little he could really say or do that would placate them. By the end of the season he seemed more like a WW1 shell shock casualty than anything else.

 

Which is what worries me about Allardyce, he may not be the man to take us back to glory day (or nearly glory days), but I wonder if he'll even be given the chance to try before the feeding frenzy begins.

 

I reckon tactics wise they're on about the same level, but allardyce talks a far better game and uses smoke and mirrors to convince people he's a scientist of the game barely matched by professor Wenger. He'll be far better at facing down his accusors.

 

Which isn't a dig by the way, if he can convince the changing room/fans he knows what he's doing he's half way there. It's all about confidence.

 

I think we defended better as a team under Roeder but individual errors cost us more often, the fullbacks got plenty of cover from the wide men and the lads in the centre of midfield done the same for the centre backs, under Allardyce we seem to get caught out more often on the counter attack where our back four is left exposed.

[bobbyshinton 59]

That's the problem though. Roeder wasn't taking us in the right direction. He did very well as caretaker but I think it was clear to most that under his stewardship once he got the job full-time things were going in anything but the right direction. It's quite frightening to think what sort of side we'd have this season if he was still around. Relegation battle guarenteed imo.

 

The thing is Roeder had largely lost it and lost the dressing room by the end of last season, BUT a lot of that goes back to the ridiculous injures we had last season compounded by the relentless negative pressure the guy had most ALL of last season.

 

Without those injuries things might have been different (although I couldn't have seen him doing what Allardyce is hoped to be able to do even without).

 

The thing is I reckon Allardyce is only a loss at Sunderland (or a few losses elsewhere) from going in a similar direction as Roeder and once a manager is more concerned with fighting the press and the fans than anything else, they are probably doomed.

 

People moan about Roeder using injuries as an excuse but he was right, his problem was he mentioned it every day.

 

How many more points would we have picked up last season if Owen had been fit more often than not? quite a few I reckon considering we had to play Rossi and Duff up front at times, shame Boro wouldn't sell us Viduka which would have softened the blow.

 

Aye well his big problem was saying "I won't use injuries as an excuse" at the beginning of the season when we had a fairly decent injury crisis going, but that left him on a hiding to nothing as our injury crisis amazingly continued unabated and even deepened massively post-Xmas for the rest of the season.

 

He backed himself into a corner and the fans and the press just got more and more aggressive over the season with him, and there was very little he could really say or do that would placate them. By the end of the season he seemed more like a WW1 shell shock casualty than anything else.

 

Which is what worries me about Allardyce, he may not be the man to take us back to glory day (or nearly glory days), but I wonder if he'll even be given the chance to try before the feeding frenzy begins.

 

I reckon tactics wise they're on about the same level, but allardyce talks a far better game and uses smoke and mirrors to convince people he's a scientist of the game barely matched by professor Wenger. He'll be far better at facing down his accusors.

Which isn't a dig by the way, if he can convince the changing room/fans he knows what he's doing he's half way there. It's all about confidence.

 

I agree

[Guest alex]

As Ritchie's pointed out before it was almost inevitable we would struggle with injuries given the players we had. I blame Souness for that far more than Roeder though. I'm thinking about players like Craig Moore, Babayaro, Carr, even Bramble, Owen (we were unlucky with the injuries he got but a few spells out could have been expected) and Duff. I've probably missed a few there but both of the last two seasons we had squads that probably weren't big enough and had players who were often out injured and - lo and behold - we have an injury crisis on both occasions. That's getting off the point a bit perhaps. It's also one thing I'd expect to improve under Allardyce.

[Happy Face 29]

As Ritchie's pointed out before it was almost inevitable we would struggle with injuries given the players we had. I blame Souness for that far more than Roeder though. I'm thinking about players like Craig Moore, Babayaro, Carr, even Bramble, Owen (we were unlucky with the injuries he got but a few spells out could have been expected) and Duff. I've probably missed a few there but both of the last two seasons we had squads that probably weren't big enough and had players who were often out injured and - lo and behold - we have an injury crisis on both occasions. That's getting off the point a bit perhaps. It's also one thing I'd expect to improve under Allardyce.

 

It has improved under Allardyce.

 

Difficult to judge the impact he's had on it when we've had no Intertoto/UEFA cup/Carling cup to contend with though. Only three games in over a month shouldn't see a lot of injuries.

[snakehips 0]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

[Jimbo 175]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

We just got lucky with Kuyt, had it not been for Liverpool's interest he'd be a Newcastle player now.

[Shearergol 0]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

We just got lucky with Kuyt, had it not been for Liverpool's interest he'd be a Newcastle player now.

 

Not sure how or why that would be a bad thing tbh

[Jimbo 175]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

We just got lucky with Kuyt, had it not been for Liverpool's interest he'd be a Newcastle player now.

 

Not sure how or why that would be a bad thing tbh

 

I happen to think he's not very good.

[Shearergol 0]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

We just got lucky with Kuyt, had it not been for Liverpool's interest he'd be a Newcastle player now.

 

Not sure how or why that would be a bad thing tbh

 

I happen to think he's not very good.

 

Oh right; I think he's better than all of our strikers apart from Owen, and the two of them would make a good partnership.

[Guest alex]

Kuyt and Torres should be starting together imo. He's suffered as much as anyone from Benitez's policy of rotating too much. Don't think he'll ever be that prolific though.

[Happy Face 29]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

It seems that's debatable. Personally I'd have loved him here but after Souness had spent over £45M in a season, I think Roeders frugality had the best interests of Newcastle at heart and was comendable.

[Guest alex]

I think he spent all he had.

[Jimbo 175]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

It seems that's debatable. Personally I'd have loved him here but after Souness had spent over £45M in a season, I think Roeders frugality had the best interests of Newcastle at heart and was comendable.

 

 

Hang on, didn't he spend £10.5m on Martins when Liverpool spent £9m on Kuyt ?

[snakehips 0]

Roeders only problem in the Transfer market was being too cagey. He refused to throw money at solving the problem. Which wasn't a bad thing imo.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of Allardyce's buys at the time though, except for barton who I wasn't happy to see here.

 

Has Rodders been proved right in not rushing to sign Kuyt ??? Hmmmm

 

It seems that's debatable. Personally I'd have loved him here but after Souness had spent over £45M in a season, I think Roeders frugality had the best interests of Newcastle at heart and was comendable.

 

 

Hang on, didn't he spend £10.5m on Martins when Liverpool spent £9m on Kuyt ?

 

Not sure. But if he did, it he was probably thinking Oba's age made him more experienced