Martins should leave!!!!!!

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Owen's status as being world class depends on how he comes back to fitness. Watching him closely on Monday night, I was really impressed with his movement, passing and vision. He has always had the knack of being in the right place at the right time - something that makes a striker world class imo. As I said, it all depends on his fitness on whether he remains world class - I (we) can only hope he gets fitter and stronger as each game passes.

 

As for Martins - he's an enigma that I just love to watch tbh. He's a bit like Lua Lua but with goals, which is what matters at the end of the day.

 

Keep both as long as possible.

 

 

Thats how i feel about him, he excites me but not in a 'duck butter' way

[Barney 0]

Martins reminds me of Cisse(of Liverpool/Marseille) actually. He has incredible pace and strong shot power. But he's missing a couple of pieces that would make him a genuine top class striker. His touch and his instinct. I am a big fan though and would only like him to go if the goals dried up and we were to replace him with the awesome Anelka.

[Holden McGroin 6613]

Remember, Drogba at 23 had an Ameobi-like scoring record and was not playing top flight football for Le Mans. Didn't become the Drogba that we all know over-night =/

 

 

Shhhhhhhh. Players cant improve! FACT !

Very few players make that sort of drastic improvement. FACT! It's like saying Souness should have had 5 years to sort the team out because that's how long Alex Ferguson needed at Man Utd.

 

I dont think Martins (eg) improving his goal tally from 17 to 25 this season would be a drastic improvement. (Albeit unlikely as we dont have the same amount of games as we did last season.)

 

Players like Lampard & Crouch looked completely average until mid 20s and Drogba didnt come good until then as well. Im not saying Martins will be a world beater but he is a good player and can always improve.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Can I just tell you where I am on this...[/Dragons Den]

 

To say Martins is a better player than Owen is grounds for a collective slap off the world football community. He quite simply isn't, even David Blunkett could see that.

 

Martins first touch is piss poor and yes, he can score the spectacular but he has a real problem when it comes to putting the ball in the net from the simplest of positions.

 

Saying that it does seem this season that he has began to use his pace better and is making runs off the ball, whereas last season he had to have it placed at his feet before he could go steaming off down the pitch.

 

I'm resigned to the fact his first touch is always going to be poor but when he manages to sort out his finishing he could be a very good forward for us. If he was currently playing for Arsenal or Chelsea his first touch wouldn't be a problem because they can afford to give the ball away. They have the players who can win the ball back. Until we get to that level it's always going to be a massive issue.

 

If someone came in with £13mill+ I'd snap there hands off then go out and buy someone like Berbatov who I could see carving out a brilliant partnership with Owen.

 

Sort out his finishing????

 

He hits the ball harder and more accurate with both his feet than any one of our other players. Until his 'poor' finishing is costing us games I don't think anyone has got a leg to stand on slagging him wise.

 

I can remember atleast two occasions this season when he's made a complete fucking hash of putting the ball into an empty net.

 

I'm not saying he can't finish at all, that would be daft, but if you're a Premiership striker you should be able to score from the positions he was in 99 times out of 100

[Fop 1]

Owen isn't World Class.

 

He was, but he isn't now. I wouldn't class him in the top bracket of centre forwards on the Planet anymore.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing he's missing is a Jonny2J video compilation. Once he has that, he'll have done it all.

 

By the way, he's been out injured for the best part of two seasons, and has barely played since his return. I assume you're basing your revised opinion on that handful of games?

 

In which he's got a fairly decent strike record as well.

[Holden McGroin 6613]

5 goals in 7 starts is pretty damn decent. I don't even know why we are having this conversation.

[Fop 1]

Martins was not a bad player at Inter Milan. I remember him thoroughly embarassing Paolo Maldini at the San Siro. He had a pretty good goalscoring record for them even though he was used as a sub most of the times and he played so well that he supplanted Christian Vieri in the starting line up. He also scored some goals in Champion's League for Inter Milan .

 

 

Out of interest why was he sold?

 

Even the price we paid wasn't THAT much for a future world footballer of the year.

 

 

 

Either Inter recognised Martins strengths AND weakness and decided to cash in on balance or.... they just sold a future superstar for the hell of it?

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Can I just tell you where I am on this...[/Dragons Den]

 

To say Martins is a better player than Owen is grounds for a collective slap off the world football community. He quite simply isn't, even David Blunkett could see that.

 

Martins first touch is piss poor and yes, he can score the spectacular but he has a real problem when it comes to putting the ball in the net from the simplest of positions.

 

Saying that it does seem this season that he has began to use his pace better and is making runs off the ball, whereas last season he had to have it placed at his feet before he could go steaming off down the pitch.

 

I'm resigned to the fact his first touch is always going to be poor but when he manages to sort out his finishing he could be a very good forward for us. If he was currently playing for Arsenal or Chelsea his first touch wouldn't be a problem because they can afford to give the ball away. They have the players who can win the ball back. Until we get to that level it's always going to be a massive issue.

 

If someone came in with £13mill+ I'd snap there hands off then go out and buy someone like Berbatov who I could see carving out a brilliant partnership with Owen.

 

Sort out his finishing????

 

He hits the ball harder and more accurate with both his feet than any one of our other players. Until his 'poor' finishing is costing us games I don't think anyone has got a leg to stand on slagging him wise.

 

I can remember atleast two occasions this season when he's made a complete fucking hash of putting the ball into an empty net.

 

I'm not saying he can't finish at all, that would be daft, but if you're a Premiership striker you should be able to score from the positions he was in 99 times out of 100

 

Look at Ferdinand towards the end of the 12/6 point costing us the title season, the amount of one on one's he had and tbh he couldn't finish his fucking dinner but never the less a top striker. It all goes with the territory imo, some you win some you lose.

 

There's not many players out there who can strike the ball as hard and as accurate as Martin's with both feet, turn on a sixpence as well

[Jusoda Kid 1]

5 goals in 7 starts is pretty damn decent. I don't even know why we are having this conversation.

 

for the doubters http://www.nufc.com/2007-08html/goalscorers.html

[Isegrim 9803]

5 goals in 7 starts is pretty damn decent. I don't even know why we are having this conversation.

Because there are as much people overrating him as there are people underrating him with little middle ground?

[Holden McGroin 6613]

5 goals in 7 starts is pretty damn decent. I don't even know why we are having this conversation.

Because there are as much people overrating him as there are people underrating him with little middle ground?

 

Started with Gemmill and his irrational hatred for Oba. I can just imagine him slumping back in his chair, arms folded, lip quivering when Martins smacks one in.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Holden McGroin

[Yorkie-Geordie 0]

If people can't see the obvious improvements from Martins this season, then their ability to change their mind on a particular player is questionable. Martins' all-round play has improved considerably this season, and i think we can thank Allardyce (aswell as the fact that he's actually training with competent strikers nowadays) for the up-turn in fortunes.

 

Martins was a confidence player last season. Scratch that - he was a competent goalscorer. He scored in bursts, only when he was feeling good. All you have to do is look at the timing of his goals this season to tell that he's matured as a footballer. Instead of being all at once, they're more evenly spread out - often coming off the back of matches where he either hasn't played, or has simply played poorly. This wouldn't have happened last season. If Roeder was still in charge, and Oba would have been on the bench like he has, he'd have slumped terribly.

 

Martins is one of the key benefitors of the new 'revolution'.

 

Then you can look at the quality of his goals. They're actually strikers goals. People have picked on his movement and his touch every single day that he has been here, and while his touch is still questionable, his movement is the key factor of his gameplay that has been enhanced considerably. The Man City goal and the Spurs goal provide the most obvious evidence for this - excellent movement across the defence, and a sublime touch in the Man City case, which set him up to smash the ball in, each with excellent finishes.

 

Then Wigan, an inch-perfect cross for Owen to head home in the dying minutes. Would that have happened last season? I really don't think so.

 

Martins is a gem and i'm thrilled that we've kept him in our squad thus far. He's going to be excellent, i think. People overrate him, yeah, i'm probably guilty of that - but the slating he gets is just plain daft. He was top scorer last season, by miles, and given Owen's evergreen injury problems, he's on course to do so again. Just get behind the guy.

[Tooj 17]

Are you his PR?

[Yorkie-Geordie 0]

I'm his wife.

[adios 717]

I'm his wife.

 

You're my wife now.

[Tooj 17]

I'm his wife.

 

You're my wife now.

[Fop 1]

If people can't see the obvious improvements from Martins this season, then their ability to change their mind on a particular player is questionable. Martins' all-round play has improved considerably this season, and i think we can thank Allardyce (aswell as the fact that he's actually training with competent strikers nowadays) for the up-turn in fortunes.

 

Martins was a confidence player last season. Scratch that - he was a competent goalscorer. He scored in bursts, only when he was feeling good. All you have to do is look at the timing of his goals this season to tell that he's matured as a footballer. Instead of being all at once, they're more evenly spread out - often coming off the back of matches where he either hasn't played, or has simply played poorly. This wouldn't have happened last season. If Roeder was still in charge, and Oba would have been on the bench like he has, he'd have slumped terribly.

 

Martins is one of the key benefitors of the new 'revolution'.

 

Then you can look at the quality of his goals. They're actually strikers goals. People have picked on his movement and his touch every single day that he has been here, and while his touch is still questionable, his movement is the key factor of his gameplay that has been enhanced considerably. The Man City goal and the Spurs goal provide the most obvious evidence for this - excellent movement across the defence, and a sublime touch in the Man City case, which set him up to smash the ball in, each with excellent finishes.

 

Then Wigan, an inch-perfect cross for Owen to head home in the dying minutes. Would that have happened last season? I really don't think so.

 

Martins is a gem and i'm thrilled that we've kept him in our squad thus far. He's going to be excellent, i think. People overrate him, yeah, i'm probably guilty of that - but the slating he gets is just plain daft. He was top scorer last season, by miles, and given Owen's evergreen injury problems, he's on course to do so again. Just get behind the guy.

 

Martins seems to be playing more or less as he did last season to me (the TEAM is performing better though - well in some areas).

 

That is scoring an amazing goal one second and then blazing wide from an open goal under no pressure the next, and he's still seems to be lacking a footballing brain to a large degree, just his raw athleticism makes up for a LOT of that at times.

 

 

 

 

He's good and worth keeping certainly (even if his faults don't disappear), but getting rid of Owen for him? That is just madness (yet a lot of people seem to think that is rational).

[Fop 1]

And I still wonder why he was ever sold to us, given that everyone and his dog (apparently) can see he's a future world player of the year.

[Guest alex]

And I still wonder why he was ever sold to us, given that everyone and his dog (apparently) can see he's a future world player of the year.

No one actually has said that though, have they? The reason Inter let him go was because they had signed Ibrahimovich that summer and, given the other strikers at the club, deemed him surplus to requirements.

Edited October 26, 2007 by alex

[acrossthepond 877]

He's more of an instinctive finisher, not unlike Bellamy actually. I.e. he finishes better when he hasn't got time to think about it.

 

I think we have seen this problem more than any of the other "problems that make him rubbish" this season. Against West Ham he rounds the keeper and...sends it wide. Too long to think. Hard bit's done, gets confused, blasts it.

 

Against the Arse he's watched the tapes of his miss a hundred times. So he tries to tap in, having again done the hard bit. It's slow enough to be cleared before it gets to the line.

 

Nobody is saying he'll be a world player of the year. What I am saying is that if he figures out his confidence issues and goes with his instincts (which despite the abuse are not as bad as people make out) he will bang them in regularly and there's no need to talk of selling him.

[Guest alex]

The chance when he was put through by Smith against Everton was similar too.

[Barney 0]

Inter had Crespo, Cruz, Ibrahimovic and an in-form Adriano at the club. Martins had been used as an impact sub off the bench and when a bid came in that matched their valuation of him, they let him go.

 

I think he was very highly thought of at Inter though by the fans.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Barney

[Tooj 17]

Inter had Crespo, Cruz, Ibrahimovic and an in-form Adriano at the club. Martins had been used as an impact sub off the bench and when a bid came in that matched their valuation of him, they let him go.

 

I think he was very highly thought of at Inter though by the fans.

Adriano wasn't in form.

[Fop 1]

And I still wonder why he was ever sold to us, given that everyone and his dog (apparently) can see he's a future world player of the year.

No one actually has said that though, have they? The reason Inter let him go was because they had signed Ibrahimovich that summer and, given the other strikers at the club, deemed him surplus to requirements.

 

Some pretty much, yes.

 

 

Yes he was surplus to requirements for what he WAS/IS and what he likely will BE.

 

If he'd been the obvious talent (without obvious flaws) some people on here believe they'd NEVER have let him go.

 

That's not to say he is shit either, he isn't. But it's fairly unlikely some people on a message board have seen things in him (positive and negative) that Inter did not.

[Guest alex]

And I still wonder why he was ever sold to us, given that everyone and his dog (apparently) can see he's a future world player of the year.

No one actually has said that though, have they? The reason Inter let him go was because they had signed Ibrahimovich that summer and, given the other strikers at the club, deemed him surplus to requirements.

 

Some pretty much, yes.

 

 

Yes he was surplus to requirements for what he WAS/IS and what he likely will BE.

 

If he'd been the obvious talent (without obvious flaws) some people on here believe they'd NEVER have let him go.

 

That's not to say he is shit either, he isn't. But it's fairly unlikely some people on a message board have seen things in him (positive and negative) that Inter did not.

Nah. Straw-man-tastic. As per usual