Sensiemella101 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 You guys will realise what an excellent player Martins is when he leaves. I am tired of u guys taking the mickey out of Martins when he has been excellent for u thus far. The guy has already scored a a few goals this season even though he has not been an automatic starter. Maetins has weaknesses but I don't think that they are as bad as u guys make it out to be. A lot of top players have weaknesses that are disguised by the quality of the teammates they have around them. I saw a lot of the games where Martins was criticised and I found a lot of the criticism to be unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Unfortunately this is not a career for the meek. He needs to perform better than anyone else at the club in his position to hold onto it. We cannot be sentimental if we want to progress. I appreciate loyalty to player, it's commendable, but loyalty to a player must come after loyalty to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensiemella101 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Unfortunately this is not a career for the meek. He needs to perform better than anyone else at the club in his position to hold onto it. We cannot be sentimental if we want to progress. I appreciate loyalty to player, it's commendable, but loyalty to a player must come after loyalty to the club. Sounds good but it is essentially a load of rubbish.....Owen did'nt have to prove anything he walked into the starting line up as soon as he was fit at Martins expense...even though Martins had already notched 2 goals!!!! There seems to be one rule for Martins and one rule for Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Because Owen is a proven World Class player who has scored goals in the top flight his entire career. He's been 1st choice for England for nearly a decade, he's played for two of the biggest clubs in the world. Martins is not, has not and equally has not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensiemella101 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Because Owen is a proven World Class player who has scored goals in the top flight his entire career. He's been 1st choice for England for nearly a decade, he's played for two of the biggest clubs in the world. Martins is not, has not and equally has not. Owen is indeed a world class striker, that is not in dispute......but the fact is that it was Martins goals which saved u NUFC from certain relegation last season... and he started with a brace in the 1st game of the new season. Most coaches would have given him an extended run .... Owen on the other hand has spent more than a year on the sidelines and seemed more interested in playing for England than the club.. Martins on the other hand seems to put club first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Because Owen is a proven World Class player who has scored goals in the top flight his entire career. He's been 1st choice for England for nearly a decade, he's played for two of the biggest clubs in the world. Martins is not, has not and equally has not. Owen is indeed a world class striker, that is not in dispute......but the fact is that it was Martins goals which saved u NUFC from certain relegation last season... and he started with a brace in the 1st game of the new season. Most coaches would have given him an extended run .... Owen on the other hand has spent more than a year on the sidelines and seemed more interested in playing for England than the club.. Martins on the other hand seems to put club first that is wrong is so many ways I daren't begin to retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Owen isn't World Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Owen isn't World Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Unfortunately this is not a career for the meek. He needs to perform better than anyone else at the club in his position to hold onto it. We cannot be sentimental if we want to progress. I appreciate loyalty to player, it's commendable, but loyalty to a player must come after loyalty to the club. Eh? Why should he lose his position? Currently our best two strikers at the club are Owen and Martins, and Martins was certainly the better player in the previous game. But anyway, Owen and Martins should be our starting pair for the next game, regardless of whether Viduka or Smith are fit. If one has to be casted aside however, it shouldn't be Martins simply because Owen is a world-class goalscorer and Martins has a rubbish first touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Owen isn't World Class. He was, but he isn't now. I wouldn't class him in the top bracket of centre forwards on the Planet anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Owen isn't World Class. He was, but he isn't now. I wouldn't class him in the top bracket of centre forwards on the Planet anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing he's missing is a Jonny2J video compilation. Once he has that, he'll have done it all. By the way, he's been out injured for the best part of two seasons, and has barely played since his return. I assume you're basing your revised opinion on that handful of games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghoulert 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Let this discussion die, please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassplayerjj 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) Because Owen is a proven World Class player who has scored goals in the top flight his entire career. He's been 1st choice for England for nearly a decade, he's played for two of the biggest clubs in the world. Martins is not, has not and equally has not. Owen is indeed a world class striker, that is not in dispute......but the fact is that it was Martins goals which saved u NUFC from certain relegation last season... and he started with a brace in the 1st game of the new season. Most coaches would have given him an extended run .... Owen on the other hand has spent more than a year on the sidelines and seemed more interested in playing for England than the club.. Martins on the other hand seems to put club first that is wrong is so many ways I daren't begin to retort. Take Martins goals out of the equation last season. Shit, even if the great one had stayed for another and we had Shearer and Sibierski, or Shearer and Dyer last season, we could have well gone down. The team was utter garbage last season under Roeder, we all know this. Martins scores goals out of nothing, so take his 11 league goals away and we may have been relegated and done a Leeds tbh =) The argument about Owen not looking interested.......the little'un never looks interested for whoever he plays for, but he keeps scoring goals so I don't care how he looks. Edited October 25, 2007 by bassplayerjj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Owen isn't World Class. He was, but he isn't now. I wouldn't class him in the top bracket of centre forwards on the Planet anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing he's missing is a Jonny2J video compilation. Once he has that, he'll have done it all. By the way, he's been out injured for the best part of two seasons, and has barely played since his return. I assume you're basing your revised opinion on that handful of games? I have been working on that btw. Yes I am basing it on what I've seen him for us, maybe if he was playing in a more creative team he'd look a lot better, who knows, but to me he's certainly been missing something, he seems to playing more reserved if anything, as in he doesn't seem to have the confidence to try and beat people like he has been able to in the past with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 He's barely played for us, and every time he has he's either injured or recovering from one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Owen isn't World Class. He was, but he isn't now. I wouldn't class him in the top bracket of centre forwards on the Planet anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing he's missing is a Jonny2J video compilation. Once he has that, he'll have done it all. By the way, he's been out injured for the best part of two seasons, and has barely played since his return. I assume you're basing your revised opinion on that handful of games? Where as you're basing it on his form for Liverpool in the 2003/04 season or before. Owen's pace is all but gone now since his injury, people say his game wasn't all about pace which I agree with but it was a big part of what made him the player he was, the Michael Owen of old would have picked up a similar through ball to that he had against Spurs and sprinted away from the defence before scoring, the Michael Owen we've got now couldn't even outpace Michael Dawson so he resorted to shooting from distance which he's average at, it wasn't a one off either as similar situations occurred against Barnsley and Wigan. What we're left with now is a very good penalty box striker who needs the delivery to be on a plate for him to score, he's the sort of player you want in your team when you're dominating the opposition but will be a passenger against the better teams as he can't create fuck all for himself. World class strikers are players like Eto'o, Drogba and Henry, Owen isn't even close to being as good as any of them, nowhere near, then you've got the likes of Berbatov, Anelka and Van Persie who are better than him and they are not World class either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@yourservice 67 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Martins has had plenty time to learn how to control a football he is 38 ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 He's barely played for us, and every time he has he's either injured or recovering from one. You still notice things though about a player when they come back from injury though, they still show glimpses of what they were before. He seems more dangerous for England btw, that's not a dig or anything, maybe it's because he's playing with better players who can pick out his runs etc better. Hope he proves me wrong though, but I don't class him as World Class anymore, if he wants to be then as far as I'm concerned he has to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Eh? Why should he lose his position? Currently our best two strikers at the club are Owen and Martins, and Martins was certainly the better player in the previous game. But anyway, Owen and Martins should be our starting pair for the next game, regardless of whether Viduka or Smith are fit. If one has to be casted aside however, it shouldn't be Martins simply because Owen is a world-class goalscorer and Martins has a rubbish first touch. I didn't say that he definitely will lose his place, I said he has to make sure he doesn't lose his place. If he becomes complacent, or does not produce on the pitch for other reasons he will lose his place in the starting line up (and rightly so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 877 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Because Owen is a proven World Class player who has scored goals in the top flight his entire career. He's been 1st choice for England for nearly a decade, he's played for two of the biggest clubs in the world. Martins is not, has not and equally has not. Owen is indeed a world class striker, that is not in dispute......but the fact is that it was Martins goals which saved u NUFC from certain relegation last season... and he started with a brace in the 1st game of the new season. Most coaches would have given him an extended run .... Owen on the other hand has spent more than a year on the sidelines and seemed more interested in playing for England than the club.. Martins on the other hand seems to put club first that is wrong is so many ways I daren't begin to retort. If I'm honest, NUFC would have gone down last year if not for Martins, and I don't think there can really be much dispute on this topic. Who else was there? Luque? Ameobi? Sibierski? Or, yes, Owen? Talk of him leaving or being sold is, as I've said, absurd. He had a good run with us last season, has held up well enough this season, and will continue to fight for his place in the first team. It's not like he's Boumsong or Luque or one of our other high-price imports who has done nothing to prove their class. As usual, a load of nonsense about "world class" again. People still think Michael Owen walks on water. He's getting on and he's lost a lot. I still say at this point I'd rather have Martins than Owen as Martins can create something out of nothing, and Owen needs chances created for him (which he is usually excellent at finishing). The way our midfield is at the moment, I think we need Martins's unpredictability and creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensiemella101 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 I have a lot of respect for Owen as a striker .He is a fox in the box but does not have an all round game and is not going to develop one anytime soon. Martins on the other hand has the potential to develop an incredible allround game and to exceed Owen in each and every department. What he needs is for the right manager to bring it out of him. I ama conoussier of football and some of the goals that Martins scores takes ur breath away. His goals have the mark of genius!!!! Yet many here despite the evidence of being put in their face ever so often refuse to realise his potential and trot out the same old excuses that he has a poor first touch ,does not do enough off the ball etc... But they fail to realise that the same was said Of Drogba, Henry and Pires during their 1st few seasons in the Premier League but the fans stood behind their players and it paid off in droves . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I'm afraid that's crap. Drogba Henry and Pires had shown their ability elsewhere and when they did come to this country they had the first touch, but were lacking the physicality. Martins has pace by the bucket, has strength but he lacks the awareness, he lacks the first touch and is not consistent. I will happily support him, but he is not the footballing God you make him out to be. He is certainly not in the same league as Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21965 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I have a lot of respect for Owen as a striker .He is a fox in the box but does not have an all round game and is not going to develop one anytime soon. Martins on the other hand has the potential to develop an incredible allround game and to exceed Owen in each and every department. What he needs is for the right manager to bring it out of him. I ama conoussier of football and some of the goals that Martins scores takes ur breath away. His goals have the mark of genius!!!! Yet many here despite the evidence of being put in their face ever so often refuse to realise his potential and trot out the same old excuses that he has a poor first touch ,does not do enough off the ball etc... But they fail to realise that the same was said Of Drogba, Henry and Pires during their 1st few seasons in the Premier League but the fans stood behind their players and it paid off in droves . i would say owen's all round game is far better than oba's. his movement, link up play, first touch, finishing and positional sense are all superior. oba beats him for pace and maybe long range shooting but all round, owen is far better and i'd say it's harder to coach the things oba doesn't have than vice verca with owen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21965 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Because Owen is a proven World Class player who has scored goals in the top flight his entire career. He's been 1st choice for England for nearly a decade, he's played for two of the biggest clubs in the world. Martins is not, has not and equally has not. Owen is indeed a world class striker, that is not in dispute......but the fact is that it was Martins goals which saved u NUFC from certain relegation last season... and he started with a brace in the 1st game of the new season. Most coaches would have given him an extended run .... Owen on the other hand has spent more than a year on the sidelines and seemed more interested in playing for England than the club.. Martins on the other hand seems to put club first that is wrong is so many ways I daren't begin to retort. If I'm honest, NUFC would have gone down last year if not for Martins, and I don't think there can really be much dispute on this topic. Who else was there? Luque? Ameobi? Sibierski? Or, yes, Owen? Talk of him leaving or being sold is, as I've said, absurd. He had a good run with us last season, has held up well enough this season, and will continue to fight for his place in the first team. It's not like he's Boumsong or Luque or one of our other high-price imports who has done nothing to prove their class. As usual, a load of nonsense about "world class" again. People still think Michael Owen walks on water. He's getting on and he's lost a lot. I still say at this point I'd rather have Martins than Owen as Martins can create something out of nothing, and Owen needs chances created for him (which he is usually excellent at finishing). The way our midfield is at the moment, I think we need Martins's unpredictability and creativity. and of course there's the issue of magness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 and of course there's the issue of magness Has any of our current crop been issued with enough? Potato famine or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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