Chelski

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

59 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Football's been broken since Alf Common.

 

 

Trust a mackem to screw things up. 

[Alex 34912]

At the risk of being a pedant (who? me?)  Abramovich is one of the wealthiest individuals on the planet. Henry Hill went to prison for years and died in a position where he had no money and sold shite paintings on eBay for $100 a shot. 

[trophyshy 7073]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

At the risk of being a pedant (who? me?) Abramovich is one of the wealthiest individuals on the planet. Henry Hill went to prison for years and died in a position where he had no money and sold shite paintings on eBay for $100 a shot.

 

I bought one for $25 from him.  Sold it for just under £500 the day after he died.  

 

It was lifting, obvs.  

 

 

[Alex 34912]

3 minutes ago, trophyshy said:

 

I bought one for $25 from him.  Sold it for just under £500 the day after he died.  

 

It was lifting, obvs.  

 

 

They were fucking incredible like. In a bad way. 

[PaddockLad 17124]

What every band wagon jumping wanker out there in media land has failed to point out is the reason for the sanction against Abramovich...basically money flows to Putin as a kick back for having Putin's permission to operate abroad or Abramovch's companies that are registered in London are being used to launder Putin's personal Ill gotten wealth. Its a means to a end at a time of war. Bringing NUFCs owners into it is only relevant if you have an agenda. Great posts from @Alex on this

 

For clarity our owners are sports washing murdering cunts too...

[Dr Gloom 21847]

42 minutes ago, NJS said:

Going all Rayvin before he gave up, from an objective point of view, the world could have easily considered several US invasions/actions as sanctionable. 

 

that's how the russians justified the invasion: the yanks have had their illegal imperialist adventures, defying the international community, why can't we reclaim part of the former USSR that is rightly ours? 

[Meenzer 15432]

27 minutes ago, Alex said:

Abramovich is one of the wealthiest individuals on the planet. Henry Hill went to prison for years and died in a position where he had no money and sold shite paintings on eBay for $100 a shot. 

 

But which is better? There's only one way to find out... FIGHT!

 

 

 

 

 

Oh right, Henry Hill...

 

 

[Rayvin 5186]

I would support the sanctioning of KSA, including any damage to NUFC, if it stopped people's lives being lost in Yemen. I can't see how it is fundamentally different to the Ukraine situation. It won't happen though - but for the sake consistency and the value of human lives, it probably should.

 

EDIT - to be clear though, I'd expect those sanctions to apply outside of just NUFC as well. We'd be talking every link they had anywhere.

[Rayvin 5186]

53 minutes ago, NJS said:

Going all Rayvin before he gave up, from an objective point of view, the world could have easily considered several US invasions/actions as sanctionable. 

 

I didn't so much give up as conclude that the west has in some form actually learned something from Iraq. As I said elsewhere, I'm not sure I could see those circumstances repeating now. Cameron was stopped with respect of Syria, etc. 

[Dr Gloom 21847]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I didn't so much give up as conclude that the west has in some form actually learned something from Iraq. As I said elsewhere, I'm not sure I could see those circumstances repeating now. Cameron was stopped with respect of Syria, etc. 

the irony being there was much more convincing case to intervene there than in iraq 

[NJS 4375]

Yeah but the Iraqis weren't backed by Putin like the Syrians so here we are. 

[Dr Gloom 21847]

yup

[Dr Gloom 21847]

politics or geopolitics - it's rarely about what's right and wrong. it's about cash and self-interest. 

[Toonpack 9298]

32 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I would support the sanctioning of KSA, including any damage to NUFC, if it stopped people's lives being lost in Yemen. I can't see how it is fundamentally different to the Ukraine situation. It won't happen though - but for the sake consistency and the value of human lives, it probably should.

 

EDIT - to be clear though, I'd expect those sanctions to apply outside of just NUFC as well. We'd be talking every link they had anywhere.

 

Appears fundamentally different to me (not that I've read a huge amount) but this is a reasonable high level summary. The old never ending Shiite/Shia and their multiple flavours fun and games. It's not just Saudi taking upon itself to subjugate/lay waste a neighbouring country. Basically Saudi were are on the Yemeni Government side and Iran tooled up the rebels, who shoot at Saudi, who then shoot back (with rather larger muscles).

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29319423

 

 

 

 

[Rayvin 5186]

Fair enough, I don't know enough of the detail to push back on that.

[Howay 12496]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

What every band wagon jumping wanker out there in media land has failed to point out is the reason for the sanction against Abramovich...basically money flows to Putin as a kick back for having Putin's permission to operate abroad or Abramovch's companies that are registered in London are being used to launder Putin's personal Ill gotten wealth. Its a means to a end at a time of war. Bringing NUFCs owners into it is only relevant if you have an agenda. Great posts from @Alex on this

 

For clarity our owners are sports washing murdering cunts too...

Spot on, that’s why I really dislike Kupers point that Gloom highlighted of making Abramovich some benign ex-gangster who has somehow got entangled in all of this by unfortunate circumstance. Abramovich is an abhorrent prick, he’s an orphan raised in an incredibly rural and poor part of Russia in the Soviet era he went from that to being able to intimidate and twist the arm of the leaders during the fall of Soviet Russia into signing off all of Russias industry to him and his associates - he invented nothing of note in between so how he got from point A to point B is a bit of a mystery box but I’d hazard a guess it isn’t down to the public version that he sold rubber ducks and worked his way up via cunning business practices, and a little bit of selling some stolen goods from the back of lorries.  Putin’s rise led to a crackdown on these Oligarchs, as Kuper pointed out but then weirdly ignored this led to replacement of some of them by his old KGB mates, the ones left that didn’t die in mysterious ways or end up in prison for convoluted reasons are seen to be pretty close with Putin, which is very weird given the fate of others. Again this leans heavily into the argument you raise that they’re washing Putin’s money. There’s a fucking reason the UK government have went after these men, it’s not just simply because they’re Russian or to be petty. 
 

This image of Abramovich that Chelsea fans highlight is the result of sportswashing and money laundering. “He’s a legitimate business man” and “he donated rooms in his hotels which helped the NHS during the pandemic but you ignore that” are the cries. 
 

I understand the parallels between Yemen and Ukraine, and therefore Saudi Arabia and Russia, but as others have said Saudi Arabia are seen as ally’s and we are supplying those weapons, Russia are a threat on our doorstep and aiming at us - the UK government aren’t taking some moralistic stand here it’s purely down to self interest and self preservation. If the day comes that Saudi Arabia is sanctioned in a similar way then I’m not going to scream at football for being hypocritical, my complaint is as it is now - these people shouldn’t be fucking involved in football full stop. 
 

I fucking hate this dragging us into it to point score that people are doing. It’s dangerous to me and it’s further sportswashing - it’s leaning into this image that Abramovich isn’t bad because look how bad other people are. That isn’t a comparison that needs to be made, our owners are horrible and shouldn’t be involved in football.  Abramovich is a horrible person that shouldn’t be involved in football. What need is there to compare them? As PL says I’ve no issue whatsoever if people want to use us to discuss the wider issue in football, but this fucking nonsense where we are being used to soften Abramovich’s image is ridiculous.
 

It’s also ridiculous that Kuper is calling out the football governing bodies for being hypocrites here, they’re a lot of things and are to blame for allowing these people to be involved - but again this isnt football punishing Chelsea or Abramovich which is what these people need to get out of their fucking heads, this is a Government sanction aimed at stopping the flow of money into Russia. They can take Abramovich’s business at face value and act like he’s just a business man who is of no consequence to Russia, but that’s absolutely not the case and is leaning further into the softening of his image. Call the Government hypocritical for ignoring Yemen and taking this approach with regard to Ukraine, but the reasons for their hypocrisy are clear and again there is no intention to “do the right thing” on their part, simply look at how they’re handling refugees from Ukraine as fucking evidence of that. 
 

It’s also worth noting that this ex-gangster who has left it all behind and totally leads a legitimate life now with no enemies whatsoever has a 24/7 ex-special forces protection group that goes with him everywhere he goes, you know like all totally legitimate people with no enemies at all do. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Howay

[Christmas Tree 4711]

16 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Appears fundamentally different to me (not that I've read a huge amount) but this is a reasonable high level summary. The old never ending Shiite/Shia and their multiple flavours fun and games. It's not just Saudi taking upon itself to subjugate/lay waste a neighbouring country. Basically Saudi were are on the Yemeni Government side and Iran tooled up the rebels, who shoot at Saudi, who then shoot back (with rather larger muscles).

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29319423

 

 

 

 

I’ve just read up on it as well. Different source but seemed to suggest the same.

 

One might say the West has better PR when doing this sort of thing but happily admit to not been greatly clued up on the minutia of it all. 

[Toonpack 9298]

16 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Fair enough, I don't know enough of the detail to push back on that.

 

I didn't know the true picture in detail, but always thought, whilst it is undoubtedly heavy handed, the Saudi action had some legality/justification about it and it isn't all just one way mayhem.

 

Must admit I do find it contentious when we in the west (UK in particular) get all high and mighty about human rights in countries which are 100 or so years (or more) behind us in the development of society, when we ourselves were less than righteous in our recent past (e.g. 100 years ago, average life expectancy in India under the Raj was under 30, that is mind boggling)

Edited March 11, 2022 by Toonpack

[Toonpack 9298]

As an aside, when I worked in Aberdeen some of the guys had worked in Russia and knew of the Chelski oligarch from back then, they said if he was talked about it was with the care you would take if you were talking about Don Corleone in the Godfather.

[Dr Gloom 21847]

33 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Fair enough, I don't know enough of the detail to push back on that.

 

the end result is the same: 100s of thousands of dead women and kids

[Toonpack 9298]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

the end result is the same: 100s of thousands of dead women and kids

 

Sadly, as it always has been and undoubtedly always will be. Has there ever been a time where it wasn't happening somewhere, on the whim of someone in power.

[Sonatine 11329]

 

[Alex 34912]

[Howmanheyman 32826]

I've heard Sky are doing one of their shit promo's for the game......

 

 

[Howay 12496]

 

 

I’m assuming this is new and a change in fact pattern? So now it’s truly a frozen asset. Does our game with them go ahead? They literally cannot pay anything if I’m reading this correct? 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Howay