Immigration - The Times

[Rob W 0]

September 09, 2005

 

Common sense emigrates

By Ross Clark

 

I WAS AWOKEN yesterday morning by yet another lorry-load of Albanian refugees rumbling past my house, followed by swarms of barefoot Bangladeshis and Chinese trudging through the dust. Actually I wasn’t; although these are the scenes that some people, studying the immigration map published by the Institute of Public Policy Research (IPPR) yesterday, imagine around the Newmarket area. Outside London, northwest Suffolk has the highest concentration of immigrants.

 

I can’t say that I am surprised, because I know some of them. They eat a lot of pizza, drive Jeeps and work at the US airbase at Lakenheath. They are typical of the foreigners who account for the 1.1 million rise in Britain’s immigrant population between 1991 and 2001. When the cantankerous old xenophobes down at the Dog and Duck talk about immigrants “flooding” into the country, they tend to imagine unemployable and diseased Third World families.

 

The reality, as the IPPR study reveals, is that immigrants are more likely to be bankers, computer nerds and nurses from the developed world. More Germans have come to live in Britain over the past decade than Afro-Caribbeans; more Americans than Bangladeshis. The average immigrant now earns more — and pays more tax — than the average Brit.

 

So what if the immigration figures keep going up? Rising immigration was inevitable after the European single market, which gives EU citizens the right to live wherever they want to in the European Union, and the lowering of barriers to the free movement of people between other developed nations. It would be worrying if immigration were falling: it would be the sign of a sclerotic economy with few opportunities for personal enrichment.

 

Those who fear immigration tend to ignore the other side of the ledger: emigration. It just so happens that the 1.1 million rise in Britain’s immigrant population over the past decade is balanced by the number of British pensioners who have retired to the sun. It is extraordinary how people take for granted their right to live abroad, while thinking it outrageous that foreigners should be allowed to live in Britain. I was talking recently to a elderly man who was selling his house to go to live in Spain. Why, I asked him? His answer, delivered without irony, was: “There’s too much immigration.”

[The Fish 10972]

my only problem with that is that he seems to be using statistics... which is insane.

 

how can you possibly have reliable statistics on illegal immigration.

 

I doubt many people would be bothered about Legal and legitimate immigration, it's the illegal migrants that have become flavour for the year with the tabloids. So saying that it's actually bankers and Germans legally entering the country, not prostitues from poland doing so illegally... is easy journalism.

 

just as easy as a big red banner headline "Millions of Migrants wash up on south east coasts"

 

end of the day legal migrants who integrate themselves into British society are not the issue, it's the illegal immigrants. And you cannot count them because they have a tendancy to avoid the eye of the authorities.... oddly enough

[Rob W 0]

they used Home Office Immigration statistics (including estimates for illegals) Census info - whic gives place of birth but no indication of legal/illegal) and Labour Market Studies - which just looks at people in work not how they came here.......................

 

I'd guess it probably underestimates illegals but not by much..........

[The Fish 10972]

that's it though Rob

 

they're all estimates, which means they guess at the numbers by taking the number they catch and multipying it a little.

 

I know that may are against it, but the benefits to this country by the introduction of ID cards and bio-metric security on credit/debit cards far outweighs the cost.

 

legal and proper immigration weighs little upon the mind of john smith, it's the illegal immigrants who come across, selling heroine to six year olds, whilst pimping out twelve years olds who are really strapped up suicide bombers...

 

in all seriousness sometimes we need a little bit of Big brother watching over us... civil liberties are all well and good as long as those with them are using them civilly and in the pursuit of liberty...

[adios 717]

What if Big Brother has an agenda GF? A sinister one even! Did we need this 50 years ago? Why?

[The Fish 10972]

if big brother has an agenda he has an agenda and there is little anything can be done to stop him.

 

if big brother truly wanted to exert full and total control it would be possible, without even letting the populace know.

 

what are people so terririfed of anyway? that we'll live in a dictatorial state where we have no choices or possibilities?

[adios 717]

If you believe the powers that be can do whatever they want and there's very little we can do about it why would you say they spend so much time and effort influencing popular opinion?

[The Fish 10972]

because there are levels to it and that those that have direct influence over the mdeia may want to spin public perception a certain way, and those who want those who want that spin to think they've spun that spin correctly without realising it is, in fact, they who have been spun.

[LeazesMag 0]

September 09, 2005

 

Common sense emigrates

By Ross Clark

 

I WAS AWOKEN yesterday morning by yet another lorry-load of Albanian refugees rumbling past my house, followed by swarms of barefoot Bangladeshis and Chinese trudging through the dust. Actually I wasn’t; although these are the scenes that some people, studying the immigration map published by the Institute of Public Policy Research (IPPR) yesterday, imagine around the Newmarket area. Outside London, northwest Suffolk has the highest concentration of immigrants.

 

I can’t say that I am surprised, because I know some of them. They eat a lot of pizza, drive Jeeps and work at the US airbase at Lakenheath. They are typical of the foreigners who account for the 1.1 million rise in Britain’s immigrant population between 1991 and 2001. When the cantankerous old xenophobes down at the Dog and Duck talk about immigrants “flooding” into the country, they tend to imagine unemployable and diseased Third World families.

 

The reality, as the IPPR study reveals, is that immigrants are more likely to be bankers, computer nerds and nurses from the developed world. More Germans have come to live in Britain over the past decade than Afro-Caribbeans; more Americans than Bangladeshis. The average immigrant now earns more — and pays more tax — than the average Brit.

 

So what if the immigration figures keep going up? Rising immigration was inevitable after the European single market, which gives EU citizens the right to live wherever they want to in the European Union, and the lowering of barriers to the free movement of people between other developed nations. It would be worrying if immigration were falling: it would be the sign of a sclerotic economy with few opportunities for personal enrichment.

 

Those who fear immigration tend to ignore the other side of the ledger: emigration. It just so happens that the 1.1 million rise in Britain’s immigrant population over the past decade is balanced by the number of British pensioners who have retired to the sun. It is extraordinary how people take for granted their right to live abroad, while thinking it outrageous that foreigners should be allowed to live in Britain. I was talking recently to a elderly man who was selling his house to go to live in Spain. Why, I asked him? His answer, delivered without irony, was: “There’s too much immigration.”

30735[/snapback]

 

Is it trying to say that as we allow more immigration at the expense of British people emigrating, Britain will eventually become "less British" - something some of us have said for a while, while other woolly heads say it won't happen ....

 

Or is it saying that the Americans have it right by allowing controlled immigration and demanding those accepted to adapt into their society rather than allowing themselves to be sucked into a divided society ?

 

Either way, this article is talking about legal immigration, and totally ignoring ILLEGAL immigration, of the non tax paying type [as GF says, statistics concerning this prove nothing and are nonsense] ... while the vast majority of us are paying the taxes to support it

 

Then again, I would expect some to turn a blind eye to the obvious dangers of this as they turn a blind eye to other things too

 

Article obviously written by an ex CND supporting no-nothing naive intellectual appeaser

Edited September 11, 2005 by LeazesMag

[adios 717]

Is it trying to say that as we allow more immigration at the expense of British people emigrating, Britain will eventually become "less British" - something some of us have said for a while, while other woolly heads say it won't happen ....

 

Or is it saying that the Americans have it right by allowing controlled immigration and demanding those accepted to adapt into their society rather than allowing themselves to be sucked into a divided society ?

 

Either way, this article is talking about legal immigration, and totally ignoring ILLEGAL immigration, of the non tax paying type [as GF says, statistics concerning this prove nothing and are nonsense] ... while the vast majority of us are paying the taxes to support it

 

Then again, I would expect some to turn a blind eye to the obvious dangers of this as they turn a blind eye to other things too

 

Article obviously written by an ex CND supporting no-nothing naive intellectual appeaser

31473[/snapback]

 

Sorry but that term annoys me, how do you appease an intellectual? Probably by not being a fuckwit. Conservative, Liberal, Intellectual. All these terms are spun until we just sound like a bunch of bipartizan children who scream if we don't get exactly what we want. Above all it stands in the way of reasonable debate.

[adios 717]

because there are levels to it and that those that have direct influence over the mdeia may want to spin public perception a certain way, and those who want those who want that spin to think they've spun that spin correctly without realising it is, in fact, they who have been spun.

31395[/snapback]

 

I imagine a faceless man, late last night, with too much alcohol taken on, saying all that in the voice of Stewie Griffin followed by maniacal tittering.

 

Seriously, it'll be a lot harder to let these things in than to get rid of them. We have the liberties we have today because of the struggles of others.

[NJS 4411]

During the 70s and 80s when xenophobia was supposedly worse I NEVER saw the word immgration preceded by "Illegal". It was somehow okay to be against it just using plain bloody-minded ignorance.

 

I now think most people have "accepted" that immigration isn't a problem but the little englanders won't let it lie. Thats why "illegal" is now the buzzword.

 

I honestly don't care how people get here - its what they do when they are here and as the overwhelming majority benefit the country the xenophobes can all still f**k off for me.

 

I would also say that as long as "britishness" is defined by sickening shite like the last night of the proms, the more its diluted the better.

[LeazesMag 0]

Is it trying to say that as we allow more immigration at the expense of British people emigrating, Britain will eventually become "less British" - something some of us have said for a while, while other woolly heads say it won't happen ....

 

Or is it saying that the Americans have it right by allowing controlled immigration and demanding those accepted to adapt into their society rather than allowing themselves to be sucked into a divided society ?

 

Either way, this article is talking about legal immigration, and totally ignoring ILLEGAL immigration, of the non tax paying type [as GF says, statistics concerning this prove nothing and are nonsense] ... while the vast majority of us are paying the taxes to support it

 

Then again, I would expect some to turn a blind eye to the obvious dangers of this as they turn a blind eye to other things too

 

Article obviously written by an ex CND supporting no-nothing naive intellectual appeaser

31473[/snapback]

 

Sorry but that term annoys me, how do you appease an intellectual? Probably by not being a fuckwit. Conservative, Liberal, Intellectual. All these terms are spun until we just sound like a bunch of bipartizan children who scream if we don't get exactly what we want. Above all it stands in the way of reasonable debate.

31548[/snapback]

 

my mistake, I meant to put in inverted commas

[LeazesMag 0]

During the 70s and 80s when xenophobia was supposedly worse I NEVER saw the word immgration preceded by "Illegal". It was somehow okay to be against it just using plain bloody-minded ignorance.

 

I now think most people have "accepted" that immigration isn't a problem but the little englanders won't let it lie. Thats why "illegal" is now the buzzword.

 

I honestly don't care how people get here - its what they do when they are here and as the overwhelming majority benefit the country the xenophobes can all still f**k off for me.

 

I would also say that as long as "britishness" is defined by sickening shite like the last night of the proms, the more its diluted the better.

31555[/snapback]

 

so are you saying you don't mind how many illegal immigrants are in the country,

 

or, are you saying you don't think there is any ?

[NJS 4411]

so are you saying you don't mind how many illegal immigrants are in the country,

 

or, are you saying you don't think there is any ?

 

I'm saying its not something that really bothers me. If theres 10k or 500k I don't see how it affects the country as a whole in any great way.

 

The idea of 500000 "illegals" claiming benefit is bullshit imo - as I understand it you would have to have some kind of status to claim anything.

 

If those aren't claiming benefits then they are working - probably in low paid, shit jobs, but still working. The idea that they "cost tax-payers millions" is propaganda imo.

 

During the election I saw the head of the CBI (not someone I would normally listen to) state that at least 97% of legal immigrants have jobs. I don't believe the idea that all "legals" are good, law-abiding workers and all "illegals" are dole scroungers - there will be both in both camps but I would suggest that that figure points towards most of them coming here to work.

[Guest alex]

Is it trying to say that as we allow more immigration at the expense of British people emigrating, Britain will eventually become "less British" - something some of us have said for a while, while other woolly heads say it won't happen ....

31473[/snapback]

Define 'British'.

[Rob W 0]

Roman- Celtic- Anglo Saxon (with a bit of Jute)- Viking- French-Norman- Hugenot-Dutch-Pole- Irish- Russian- Jewish- Italian-Yemeni -Indian-Australian Serf Efrikan- Yankee- Spanish- CHinese (several varieties) - New Zealand- Bangladeshi-Pakistani-Malay- E African Asian- West Indian

 

100% pure Brits