José Enrique

[Guest Marshall-Baines]

Breathtakingly embarrassing thread to be honest. Imagine a thread on a Liverpool board like this disecting aspects of Gerrard's play based on completely poundationless pish. We look like mugs on this thread, even by responding imo.

 

Especially when claiming Enriques in the Spanish world cup winning team

Yes my lack of knowledge about NUFC and world football in general is to blame for that "claim"....

[Ayatollah Hermione 13863]

So a pre-requisite of a left back is to dive with sliding tackles every five minutes. Modern footballers are intelligent enough to know that if you commit yourself and it goes wrong you're fucked, you're beaten and you run the risk of giving away free kicks and being booked every time you do it. He stays on his feet, asks questions of the winger, which is why he is rarely beaten. I don't think you've ever played the game have you, or if you have you're reading the Mick Wadsworth guide to defensive play.

I was thinking this as well, when have you ever seen a top defender questioned for not constantly going to ground

 

Agreed. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if he's only been watching football for a few years.

[Guest alex]

Breathtakingly embarrassing thread to be honest. Imagine a thread on a Liverpool board like this disecting aspects of Gerrard's play based on completely poundationless pish. We look like mugs on this thread, even by responding imo.

 

Especially when claiming Enriques in the Spanish world cup winning team

Highlighting your own comprehension issues probably isn't the best way to go about trying to appear clever btw

[Christmas Tree 4725]

CT, are you saying that in any way, shape or form:

1) He's been worse lately than he was earlier in the season?

2) He's been worse than he was last season?

3) He's been worse than he was in the previous seasons in the Premier League?

Or any combination of the above?

 

Two points

 

Attacking.

 

I think as others in this thread do, that his attacking this season hasnt been as good as it has in previous seasons. I dont think this is a tactical move by Hughton or Pardew and I do think it is due to the fact that Enriques quite often sees Jonas lose the ball. IMO this has made Enrique more cautious in his link up play with Jonas in the final third.

 

To me, this is contrasted by Simpson on the opposite side who now seems to get forward quite a bit. He doesnt have the same worry of Barton losing posession.

 

Defence.

 

Since he arrived he has had very good qualities in his game, in particular hi trademark sprint, guard, turn and play out of defence. My comments where whether the other parts of his defending had grown / got better.

 

IE Going to ground and getting a tackle in.

 

I still honestly, dont get the problem with discussing this

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Seriously not understanding the OP is laughable.

 

I agree

[Ayatollah Hermione 13863]

A good defender shouldn't have to rely on going to ground though! HOW DON'T YOU GET THIS?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

He's finding it tougher? Where is the evidence of that? He's thrived this season, he's up against better quality players in the Premiership so obviously it's a bigger challenge and he's not as able to show as much attacking intent as he did last season. Messi could come from the CCC still be brilliant and find it tougher in the Premiership.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

The rest of his game is superb, nothing is mentioned of his superb range of passing, short range and long range. I don't think his game has needed to grow at all to get in the Spain team (world champions in case you were unaware).

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

The last left back I saw tackling like Joey Barton was Stuart Pearce, a brilliant player, but another one who received more cards than Robbie Williams does on Valentines Day. Non-sensical point to be honest. I've never seen Ashley Cole tackle like Barton neither.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

So how exactly is this a sign of him finding it tougher as a result of his deficiencies? Again a poorly thought out paragraph.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far

 

Read my last sentence again, and apply it here too.

 

Nothing really to add. DEADMAN or Kevin could punch holes in your points tbh.

 

So basically you agree he's finding it tougher, you dont think he needs to improve any of his game.

 

What has Spains world cup winning team got to do with Enrique? Has he even played for the full team yet? I could also point out Torres form using the same argument, but Im sure Deadman or Kevin could do that.

 

Your excuse for his lack of sliding tackling is all over the place.

 

Finally, I didnt say that his lack of attacking was down to "his deficiencies", I said it was probably due to Jonas's form. A point I think you have already agreed with earlier in the thread.

 

Lots of holes and inaccuracies, but dont worry I wont call them horrific.

So a pre-requisite of a left back is to dive with sliding tackles every five minutes. Modern footballers are intelligent enough to know that if you commit yourself and it goes wrong you're fucked, you're beaten and you run the risk of giving away free kicks and being booked every time you do it. He stays on his feet, asks questions of the winger, which is why he is rarely beaten. I don't think you've ever played the game have you, or if you have you're reading the Mick Wadsworth guide to defensive play.

 

Again, nobody said that, but it should be in his locker and Im not sure if it is. Might he have taken the ball off Duff for instance if he slid in.

[Howay 12496]

Seriously not understanding the OP is laughable.

 

I agree

You're a joke, I fully understand the OP how can you say you aren't questioning his ability? you're saying he's going backwards in his levels of ability. You've quite obviously never played 11 a side and if you have you must have been fucking woeful.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Barton7

[Ayatollah Hermione 13863]

Basically, you're a knacker who likes to go "WHEY" whenever he sees a sliding tackle then?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

A good defender shouldn't have to rely on going to ground though! HOW DON'T YOU GET THIS?

 

 

I havent said they should.....HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS????????

 

I have said that it should be something he can do when his normal tactics fail. I dont see him doing it. Can you comprehend this point?

[Holden McGroin 6582]

A good defender shouldn't have to rely on going to ground though! HOW DON'T YOU GET THIS?

 

 

I havent said they should.....HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS????????

 

I have said that it should be something he can do when his normal tactics fail. I dont see him doing it. Can you comprehend this point?

 

He never has to make sliding tackles though.

 

Attackers love defenders that spend 1/2 the time on their arses. Dabizas was a classic case of this. When he played well he was excellent because he was always sliding around and getting the applause. However, better players would often make him look foolish.

 

Woodgate rarely had to make slide tackles because he read the game so well.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Well, time to depart this thread and go to the pub.

 

Maybe a few beers will make some your posts in this thread seem less dramatic and more sensible, however I doubt it.

[shackbleep 0]

CT you're like the kid at school who constantly had the shit kicked out of him because he tried to be a clever shite and just ended up looking like a tit.

 

Words fail me but we should know better of you by now.

 

 

And your like one of those bullies hangers on who was terrified to have his own fight but when there was 20 onto 1 you would rush in from behind the crowd, get a kick in and run away.

 

Another one tut tutting but failing to point out which bit of the op makes "words fail you"

 

Seriously, you're not even worth the bother. I have no doubt that if you spent long enough alone you'd be arguing with yourself.

 

Thought so

 

You're a fucking idiot!

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Overall he's had a good season so far, his turn of pace at times is phenomenal. Granted he didn't have the best of games at Fulham but the whole team were shocking aswell.

 

He should be one of the first names on the team sheet.

[Phil 6]

Attention sought - success.

I should know better by now tbh.

I don't know why anyone would seek attention by making themselves look stupid, unless it's direct deprication for a bit carry on. It shouldn't be about attention anyway it's to share good views on NUFC, and debate points, and CT could argue that's what he's doing. However a post like the OP is like debating that Adolf Hitler was a good thing for the Jewish world.

 

 

which bit man

All of it the full thing. The thing that makes me laugh is you're basing it one game where he was by no means our worst player, in a game the whole team produced one of THE WORST first half performances I can ever remember they were all dire, Tiote looked lost even in the first half. I'm too busy to discuss this pish at the minute, but the whole post is pathetic.

 

I disagree with Phil too Jose has worked well on the left the reason it's not as potent is because Jonas' form has dipped playing against better right backs, it's not Jose's main function to attack although when he does, he does it well.

 

It might not have been clear but I thought I'd said the same. The link up play going forward has took a step backwards, but defensively Collo and Jose rarely hoof it. I don't like to bash Jonas as we play him out of position.

[Holden McGroin 6582]

Attention sought - success.

I should know better by now tbh.

I don't know why anyone would seek attention by making themselves look stupid, unless it's direct deprication for a bit carry on. It shouldn't be about attention anyway it's to share good views on NUFC, and debate points, and CT could argue that's what he's doing. However a post like the OP is like debating that Adolf Hitler was a good thing for the Jewish world.

 

 

which bit man

All of it the full thing. The thing that makes me laugh is you're basing it one game where he was by no means our worst player, in a game the whole team produced one of THE WORST first half performances I can ever remember they were all dire, Tiote looked lost even in the first half. I'm too busy to discuss this pish at the minute, but the whole post is pathetic.

 

I disagree with Phil too Jose has worked well on the left the reason it's not as potent is because Jonas' form has dipped playing against better right backs, it's not Jose's main function to attack although when he does, he does it well.

 

It might not have been clear but I thought I'd said the same. The link up play going forward has took a step backwards, but defensively Collo and Jose rarely hoof it. I don't like to bash Jonas as we play him out of position.

 

I think he might actually prefer it on the left.

[Guest alex]

It's simply not true Enrique got forward a lot more in previous seasons, nor is anyone agreeing with you he did, CT. They've said he got forward more last season, but only because the opposition was poorer. Don't twist what people have said.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

A good defender shouldn't have to rely on going to ground though! HOW DON'T YOU GET THIS?

 

 

I havent said they should.....HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS????????

 

I have said that it should be something he can do when his normal tactics fail. I dont see him doing it. Can you comprehend this point?

 

He never has to make sliding tackles though.

 

Attackers love defenders that spend 1/2 the time on their arses. Dabizas was a classic case of this. When he played well he was excellent because he was always sliding around and getting the applause. However, better players would often make him look foolish.

 

Woodgate rarely had to make slide tackles because he read the game so well.

 

Might have helped against Duff.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13863]

It's simply not true Enrique got forward a lot more in previous seasons, nor is anyone agreeing with you he did, CT. They've said he got forward more last season, but only because the opposition was poorer. Don't twist what people have said.

 

The post I made earlier on in the thread basically ripped that argument apart and funnily enough, it went ignored.

[Guest alex]

The mistake against Duff was trying to be too cute in possession. That's a perfectly legitimate criticism of Enrique although you have to accept that as he looks to play football rather than hoof the ball. It's a trade-off for allowing us to play from the back. Same goes with Collocini. However, sliding in against Duff might have stopped him scoring but only at the expense of a straight red imo as he was the wrong side of the player and so on. You might as well cite that incident as evidence he's not very good at making rugby tackles.

Edited February 9, 2011 by alex

[The Fish 10856]

 

Enrique is not on the wain (sic) he's still one of the best performers in the side, more over he's probably one of the best left backs in the country (I'd agree with Stevie's assessment there),

 

Nobody disputed that

 

He's not hamstrung because of Jonas' perceived lack of ability and he is still improving.

 

A few in this thread, including Stevie, think he may be.

 

The reason he's not barrelling down the wing in this league is, quite obviously, it's a much tougher league and comparatively we've gone from being considerably superior in ability and skill to being one of the more average sides. Jonas' losing of the ball aside the whole team is under greater pressure defensively, hence his forward play is obviously going to be curtailed. Both tactically and by the mere fact we don't have the comfort of letting our fullbacks bomb on as much this season.

 

He used to barrel down the league during his previous sixty or so games in the prem. We are playing very attacking football and Simpson is barrelling on down the right.

No he didn't in fact a lot of people were commenting that they were unsure if he'd make it in the league as, despite his szie he was pushed off the ball to easy and was caught out of position too often and his crossing was poor and and and and

 

His positional play and range of passing have improved, this is clear as day to see.

 

They were already good, cant say Ive noticed a dramatic improvement. Defending wise Enrique relies a lot on his pace and strength to guard the ball. When that doesnt work I can say I've seen great evidence of him resorting to more traditional methods. EGhis positional play and pace against Duff didnt help.

 

What? Honestly this makes little or no sense. Either his positional play is good, or he relies on pace. Micah Richards has poor positional sense, but has pace to clear shit up. You're talking nonsense here CT.

 

My questions to you are as follows;

 

Why do you you think he is "on the wain(sic)"?

 

Jonas

Perfect, so it's not Jose at all, it's your incessant crusade against Jonas, because you dislike him. Fucking Hell, what a waste of a thread.

 

What were you expecting from the team, when competing in a far superior league?

 

Nowhere near the excellent attacking football we've played.

So we're playing better than you expected, but you still want to have a pop at our best performers by intimating he's somehow not as good as he was?

 

 

[ChezGiven 0]

His form has dipped a bit recently imo.

 

Fuck me that was controversial.

[angrysteve 0]

let's all take a small step back from this argument and see the bigger picture.....the alternative is Perch. Need I say any more?

[Phil 6]

The mistake against Duff was trying to be too cute in possession. That's a perfectly legitimate criticism of Enrique although you have to accept that as he looks to play football rather than hoof the ball. It's a trade-off for allowing us to play from the back. Same goes with Collocini. However, sliding in against Duff might have stopped him scoring but only at the expense of a straight red imo as he was the wrong side of the player and so on. You might as well cite that incident as evidence he's not very good at making rugby tackles.

 

I accept the risk. We lose the ball almost every time it goes to Williamson under pressure. Both Collo and Jose would look towards Harper before they put their laces through it.

[scoular 0]

An odd thread, in my opinion. I think that, over the season, he has been one of our best players, but I accept that he was not up to his usual high standards against Fulham, and in the first half against Arsenal.

I wouldn't swap him for anyone. One think not mentioned so far is his immense strength, which gives him a great advantage. Wasn't he nicknaned "The Bull" in Spain before we bought him?