José Enrique

[JawD 99]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

[sandman02uk 0]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

[Guest Your Name Here]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

[Guest]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

[LeazesMag 0]

To me LM its not as simple as saying MA wont achieve what FS did. He has a much harder playing field for one. The whole thing is open for debate which is the idea ofc. Your problem though seems to be that you have people as black or white, as one side or the other? I could easily say if MA had took the same gambles (not quite the same as its more his money he is gambling with as pointed out, but still) he could have kept us up. "could". It's never certain. He didn't, he took the risk and we paid for it dearly. Though personally I say the reason were relegated was not down to squad investment, afterall he had invested in the team, but was down to his repeated fuck ups in managerial appointments. The squad was on its knees and morale likely never lower. He done that, no one else imo. But, perhaps we have come back stronger for it. I am glad we no longer let players write their own cheques so to speak. At the time, I was happy to see Kluivert/Owen etc sign. Like I said above, I thnk we were spoiled at times. But the reality is that we were also spending someone elses money. Money we didnt have. I dont think it was as bad as the Ashley camp would have you believe, but clearly things were wobbling. SJH is a very very shrewd business man and he knew it was time to jump ship. MA took a punt and didnt check the books, more fool him.

 

Regards Carrolls money, as I keep saying, I think if we hadnt sold him we might have got a £10M kitty for a player. I think the £35M has replaced that, not been added to it. Also its meant to be including wages so the player value is likely only £20M? (£90K over 3 players over 3 years is £14M). So, I only expect to see £20M on players. Unless he now says Tiote's deal etc is part of it. We can likely factor in Enrique also sadly.

 

In contrast to Ashley, the former owners did very nicely out of their investment in Newcastle United, thank you very much. In fact, they absolutely coined it with the Halls (Sir John and Douglas) receiving a total of £95 million over the years, while the Shepherds (Freddy and Bruce) had to make do with £55 million. The Halls’ money comprised £55 million from the sale to Ashley, £20 million from previous share sales (to NTL and the club itself), £15 million from dividends and £5 million in salary payments, while the Shepherds’ money came from £38 million Ashley sale, £7 million dividends and £5 million salaries.

 

And what was the result of these staggering payments? After years of rank bad management, they left the club in an appalling mess: a £30 million loss; £70 million of debt plus £27 million owing transfer fees; extremely limited borrowing capacity, as all assets and income streams had already been used to secure loans; and a bloated wage bill of aging mercenaries on generous long-term contracts.

 

there are lots of debating points for you to take on board in this thread, at the end of the day, you say I don't reply to comments when I am STILL waiting for you to answer what I've asked you ref your support of the club.

 

The biggest hypocrisy of all, is those who were attracted to the club by the previous regime and then criticise them for the way they ran the club. I'm convinced now, by your lack of response, you fall into this category.

 

As you said yourself when I "tucked" you enjoy today and why let blind hatred get in the way of our best season for many years .... a priceless piece of hypocrisy.

[Guest]

You gonna answer mancmags question or do you think we're going to let you dodge it he completely owns you in any and every 'debate', if you can even call it that, by the way

[Guest Your Name Here]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

So you think Shepherd wanted to sell and the deal being struck behind his back was all part of some ploy to lure the gullible Mr Ashley into buying the club without checking the books?

[LeazesMag 0]

To me LM its not as simple as saying MA wont achieve what FS did. He has a much harder playing field for one. The whole thing is open for debate which is the idea ofc. Your problem though seems to be that you have people as black or white, as one side or the other? I could easily say if MA had took the same gambles (not quite the same as its more his money he is gambling with as pointed out, but still) he could have kept us up. "could". It's never certain. He didn't, he took the risk and we paid for it dearly. Though personally I say the reason were relegated was not down to squad investment, afterall he had invested in the team, but was down to his repeated fuck ups in managerial appointments. The squad was on its knees and morale likely never lower. He done that, no one else imo. But, perhaps we have come back stronger for it. I am glad we no longer let players write their own cheques so to speak. At the time, I was happy to see Kluivert/Owen etc sign. Like I said above, I thnk we were spoiled at times. But the reality is that we were also spending someone elses money. Money we didnt have. I dont think it was as bad as the Ashley camp would have you believe, but clearly things were wobbling. SJH is a very very shrewd business man and he knew it was time to jump ship. MA took a punt and didnt check the books, more fool him.

 

Regards Carrolls money, as I keep saying, I think if we hadnt sold him we might have got a £10M kitty for a player. I think the £35M has replaced that, not been added to it. Also its meant to be including wages so the player value is likely only £20M? (£90K over 3 players over 3 years is £14M). So, I only expect to see £20M on players. Unless he now says Tiote's deal etc is part of it. We can likely factor in Enrique also sadly.

 

that is specific to those who insisted that "anybody would be better than Fred", of which there were many, and indeed it would appear that in spite of the last 4 years, still can't admit how wrong they were. These are the people I've disagreed with, its the reason why I am banned from Newcastle Online, because I disagreed with about 99% of the posters which obviously dominated comments due to the sheer volume of it all.

 

It's absurd to say that the last few years of the previous owners, when the club knew it needed a change of strategy and re-group, to be representative of the whole 15 years of their time too, but again it seems the same idiots do this. To be blinded by hatred simply because of renting warehouses and taking dividends which happens in all walks of life by businessmen who take the risks in incredibly sad and narrow minded, the main thing is they gave us a good team, played in europe etc, and these amounts of money were so small they made no impact whatsoever, what do people want ? Amazing.

 

At the end of the day, I think those who supported the club in the 1970's and 1980's should have an appreciation of what the Halls and Shepherd did, so those who say they did this and have little idea or appreciation, must IMO be either liars or plain stupid.

 

What strikes me, is how obvious this is, and yet people STILL say they were a shit board and are obsessed with disagreeing with the obvious ie me when I say it.

 

I would think more of people if they could admit when they were wrong too, we are all wrong sometimes.

 

Edit Apologies for the bit in bold which I realise is a bit harsh and doesn't equate to everybody.

Edited March 2, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Guest]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

So you think Shepherd wanted to sell and the deal being struck behind his back was all part of some ploy to lure the gullible Mr Ashley into buying the club without checking the books?

 

Shepherd claimed he would have fought it had he not been I'll. Surely all those dividends could have paid for 'people' or 'a team' to fight it for him? After years of taking his piece of the pie he realised that with no Europe there'd be no profit and no dividends, and with an oversized offer on the table, of course he wanted to go. Well perhaps not wanted to, he'd have preferred the club to be in a better position so he could fleece some more out of it. But it wasn't so he went. Simple as.

[LeazesMag 0]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

So you think Shepherd wanted to sell and the deal being struck behind his back was all part of some ploy to lure the gullible Mr Ashley into buying the club without checking the books?

 

he is daft enought to think that, its just another stick to beat them with by idiotic people blinded by hatred and no understanding of what they did.

 

Who can blame them for selling the club ? Its what they did when they had it that counts, and its correct to say that Shepherd didn't want to sell, yet some fools still castigate him for it.

 

I didn't want to sell my shares either, so where does that leave me Fucking amazing point of view, you couldn't make it up.

[LeazesMag 0]

You gonna answer mancmags question or do you think we're going to let you dodge it he completely owns you in any and every 'debate', if you can even call it that, by the way

 

what an arsehole.

 

 

Hope you have bookmarked this for future embarrassment, as if you haven't been made to look a right tit several times already.

[Guest]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

So you think Shepherd wanted to sell and the deal being struck behind his back was all part of some ploy to lure the gullible Mr Ashley into buying the club without checking the books?

 

he is daft enought to think that, its just another stick to beat them with by idiotic people blinded by hatred and no understanding of what they did.

 

Who can blame them for selling the club ? Its what they did when they had it that counts, and its correct to say that Shepherd didn't want to sell, yet some fools still castigate him for it.

 

I didn't want to sell my shares either, so where does that leave me Fucking amazing point of view, you couldn't make it up.

 

So errrrr why didn't he just not sell his shares then?

[Guest]

You gonna answer mancmags question or do you think we're going to let you dodge it he completely owns you in any and every 'debate', if you can even call it that, by the way

 

what an arsehole.

 

 

Hope you have bookmarked this for future embarrassment, as if you haven't been made to look a right tit several times already.

 

 

"no I can't because I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore" would suffice

[Toonpack 9455]

there are lots of debating points for you to take on board in this thread, at the end of the day, you say I don't reply to comments when I am STILL waiting for you to answer what I've asked you ref your support of the club.

 

The biggest hypocrisy of all, is those who were attracted to the club by the previous regime and then criticise them for the way they ran the club. I'm convinced now, by your lack of response, you fall into this category.

 

As you said yourself when I "tucked" you enjoy today and why let blind hatred get in the way of our best season for many years .... a priceless piece of hypocrisy.

 

 

Well you can't read then because I did, some pages back, not that it has any relevance at all.

 

You have never answered my question, i.e. where's the money come from.

 

I'm not blindly hating, I'm posting information and facts from a totally independant and qualified source.

 

I'm done with your circular and ridiculous arguments Leazes, I posted the information for someone else, you wouldn't even read the link because there's some harsh truths in it for you.

 

Don't bother quoting this with any follow p comment because I won't reply, there is no point making hand signals to the blind.

[Guest]

If I bookmark it leazes, what future event do you predict would cause me embarrassment?

Edited March 2, 2011 by AshleysSkidMark

[Guest Your Name Here]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

So you think Shepherd wanted to sell and the deal being struck behind his back was all part of some ploy to lure the gullible Mr Ashley into buying the club without checking the books?

 

he is daft enought to think that, its just another stick to beat them with by idiotic people blinded by hatred and no understanding of what they did.

 

Who can blame them for selling the club ? Its what they did when they had it that counts, and its correct to say that Shepherd didn't want to sell, yet some fools still castigate him for it.

 

I didn't want to sell my shares either, so where does that leave me Fucking amazing point of view, you couldn't make it up.

All the available evidence points to that conclusion, which in turn implies Shepherd wasn’t excepting the club to go into administration. We can’t know for sure, but the notion NUFC would have ceased to exist if Ashley had come along isn’t the fact many like to believe.

 

This article from the time makes interesting reading four years on. All the talk from the financial experts is of NUFC being a potential cash cow, not a basket case heading for administration.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6686737.stm

[ChezGiven 0]

Written pre-crisis and based on the 2005 accounts, so not that relevant really.

[Guest Your Name Here]

there are lots of debating points for you to take on board in this thread, at the end of the day, you say I don't reply to comments when I am STILL waiting for you to answer what I've asked you ref your support of the club.

 

The biggest hypocrisy of all, is those who were attracted to the club by the previous regime and then criticise them for the way they ran the club. I'm convinced now, by your lack of response, you fall into this category.

 

As you said yourself when I "tucked" you enjoy today and why let blind hatred get in the way of our best season for many years .... a priceless piece of hypocrisy.

 

 

Well you can't read then because I did, some pages back, not that it has any relevance at all.

 

You have never answered my question, i.e. where's the money come from.

 

I'm not blindly hating, I'm posting information and facts from a totally independant and qualified source.

 

I'm done with your circular and ridiculous arguments Leazes, I posted the information for someone else, you wouldn't even read the link because there's some harsh truths in it for you.

 

Don't bother quoting this with any follow p comment because I won't reply, there is no point making hand signals to the blind.

Some random bloke with a website is hardly a reputable source.

 

The idea the club would have gone bust without Ashley’s money was put around by Chris Mort, since when it’s been taken as gospel despite never being back up with any facts. As had been said numerous times, the majority of PL clubs are carrying some debt. Arsenal, for example, are about £200m in debt and recoded a half year loss recently... are they about to go bust?

Edited March 2, 2011 by Your Name Here

[Guest]

Ok, so maybe it is as bad as the MA camp make out, but thats a minor point to what Im saying and this really backs up my "spending money we didnt have" in relation to FFS.

 

the long and the short of it was, if Ashley hadn't come in when he did, we were fucked...

 

Atleast we get to watch football still even if its not what we had been used to pre-robson

So why was the sale completed in a rush when Shepherd was in hospital?

 

A successful way of not letting Ashley uncover the true extent of the finances imo

So you think Shepherd wanted to sell and the deal being struck behind his back was all part of some ploy to lure the gullible Mr Ashley into buying the club without checking the books?

 

he is daft enought to think that, its just another stick to beat them with by idiotic people blinded by hatred and no understanding of what they did.

 

Who can blame them for selling the club ? Its what they did when they had it that counts, and its correct to say that Shepherd didn't want to sell, yet some fools still castigate him for it.

 

I didn't want to sell my shares either, so where does that leave me Fucking amazing point of view, you couldn't make it up.

All the available evidence points to that conclusion, which in turn implies Shepherd wasn’t excepting the club to go into administration. We can’t know for sure, but the notion NUFC would have ceased to exist if Ashley had come along isn’t the fact many like to believe.

 

This article from the time makes interesting reading four years on. All the talk from the financial experts is of NUFC being a potential cash cow, not a basket case heading for administration.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6686737.stm

 

 

The biggest piece of evidence I can think of is the fact that he sold his shares. Kind of implies that he wanted to sell them, as he wasn't obliged to

Edited March 2, 2011 by AshleysSkidMark

[Toonpack 9455]

there are lots of debating points for you to take on board in this thread, at the end of the day, you say I don't reply to comments when I am STILL waiting for you to answer what I've asked you ref your support of the club.

 

The biggest hypocrisy of all, is those who were attracted to the club by the previous regime and then criticise them for the way they ran the club. I'm convinced now, by your lack of response, you fall into this category.

 

As you said yourself when I "tucked" you enjoy today and why let blind hatred get in the way of our best season for many years .... a priceless piece of hypocrisy.

 

 

Well you can't read then because I did, some pages back, not that it has any relevance at all.

 

You have never answered my question, i.e. where's the money come from.

 

I'm not blindly hating, I'm posting information and facts from a totally independant and qualified source.

 

I'm done with your circular and ridiculous arguments Leazes, I posted the information for someone else, you wouldn't even read the link because there's some harsh truths in it for you.

 

Don't bother quoting this with any follow p comment because I won't reply, there is no point making hand signals to the blind.

Some random bloke with a website is hardly a reputable source.

 

The idea the club would have gone bust without Ashley’s money was put around by Chris Mort, since when it’s been taken as gospel despite never being back up with any facts. As had been said numerous times, the majority of PL clubs are carrying some debt. Arsenal, for example, are about £200m in debt and recoded a half year loss recently... are they about to go bust?

 

Some random bloke:

 

"Essential reading about the business of football, with a depth of knowledge that makes it stand well out from the crowd" - The Guardian

 

"Best Niche Website - gets our vote for shedding light on a topic that is at once both essential and alien to the modern football fan – football finance" - Soccerlens

 

"Respected football financial blogger" – BBC

 

I'll take his unbiased word for it, thanks.

 

Arsenal have Champions league money plus over a million a game from the Emirates. We were carrying more than "some debt" we were maxed out, maybe we could have got more finance, but at what cost - one exisiting loan we had we were already paying 11.7% interest.

 

P.S. Your Chris Mort comment is actually addressed in the blog, in terms along the lines of "he would say that wouldn't he" and then there's an independant view from a financier

Edited March 2, 2011 by Toonpack

[LeazesMag 0]

there are lots of debating points for you to take on board in this thread, at the end of the day, you say I don't reply to comments when I am STILL waiting for you to answer what I've asked you ref your support of the club.

 

The biggest hypocrisy of all, is those who were attracted to the club by the previous regime and then criticise them for the way they ran the club. I'm convinced now, by your lack of response, you fall into this category.

 

As you said yourself when I "tucked" you enjoy today and why let blind hatred get in the way of our best season for many years .... a priceless piece of hypocrisy.

 

 

Well you can't read then because I did, some pages back, not that it has any relevance at all.

 

You have never answered my question, i.e. where's the money come from.

 

I'm not blindly hating, I'm posting information and facts from a totally independant and qualified source.

 

I'm done with your circular and ridiculous arguments Leazes, I posted the information for someone else, you wouldn't even read the link because there's some harsh truths in it for you.

 

Don't bother quoting this with any follow p comment because I won't reply, there is no point making hand signals to the blind.

Some random bloke with a website is hardly a reputable source.

 

The idea the club would have gone bust without Ashley’s money was put around by Chris Mort, since when it’s been taken as gospel despite never being back up with any facts. As had been said numerous times, the majority of PL clubs are carrying some debt. Arsenal, for example, are about £200m in debt and recoded a half year loss recently... are they about to go bust?

 

Some random bloke:

 

"Essential reading about the business of football, with a depth of knowledge that makes it stand well out from the crowd" - The Guardian

 

"Best Niche Website - gets our vote for shedding light on a topic that is at once both essential and alien to the modern football fan – football finance" - Soccerlens

 

"Respected football financial blogger" – BBC

 

I'll take his unbiased word for it, thanks.

 

Arsenal have Champions league money plus over a million a game from the Emirates. We were carrying more than "some debt" we were maxed out, maybe we could have got more finance, but at what cost - one exisiting loan we had we were already paying 11.7% interest.

 

P.S. Your Chris Mort comment is actually addressed in the blog, in terms along the lines of "he would say that wouldn't he" and then there's an independant view from a financier

 

there are so many points I've raised that you don't respond to, and those you do are so hypocritical its staggering.

 

I'm starting to think you really do get your football/NUFC knowledge from skunkers after all

[LeazesMag 0]

there are lots of debating points for you to take on board in this thread, at the end of the day, you say I don't reply to comments when I am STILL waiting for you to answer what I've asked you ref your support of the club.

 

The biggest hypocrisy of all, is those who were attracted to the club by the previous regime and then criticise them for the way they ran the club. I'm convinced now, by your lack of response, you fall into this category.

 

As you said yourself when I "tucked" you enjoy today and why let blind hatred get in the way of our best season for many years .... a priceless piece of hypocrisy.

 

 

Well you can't read then because I did, some pages back, not that it has any relevance at all.

 

You have never answered my question, i.e. where's the money come from.

 

I'm not blindly hating, I'm posting information and facts from a totally independant and qualified source.

 

I'm done with your circular and ridiculous arguments Leazes, I posted the information for someone else, you wouldn't even read the link because there's some harsh truths in it for you.

 

Don't bother quoting this with any follow p comment because I won't reply, there is no point making hand signals to the blind.

Some random bloke with a website is hardly a reputable source.

 

The idea the club would have gone bust without Ashley’s money was put around by Chris Mort, since when it’s been taken as gospel despite never being back up with any facts. As had been said numerous times, the majority of PL clubs are carrying some debt. Arsenal, for example, are about £200m in debt and recoded a half year loss recently... are they about to go bust?

 

there are some people who know so little, they believe anything they read ...

 

particularly if they are blinded by hatred, towards people who attracted them back to the club and didn't give them the premiership title they came back for....

 

Hypocrisy the likes of which is difficult to believe.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

The problem with the Keegan comments, mainly that Pardew wont see any of the 35 Mill, is that it will no doubt be thrown up at tomorrows press conference.

 

In an ideal world Pardew would just bat them away and move on, however anything less than absolute diplomacy will be seized on and blown out of all proportions.

It's only a real problem if KK is correct (or nearly right) though. If Pardew knows it's bollocks, he can say so and be proven to be right come the summer, no?

 

Pardews already on record as saying he has discussed it and being assured he's getting it, hence whi I hope he diplomatically bats it away and doesn't get drawn into niggly words with press men.

 

Deep down, we all know that anything can happen and assurances can disappear overnight.

 

Personally I think KK would be better commenting on facts. I would hate to see him become a bitter sniper like Fat Sam.

I think he's entitled to an opinion having worked with the regime. I see absolutely no reason why he should sugar coat that for the benefit of Ashley. I also think it has very little real impact on NUFC anyway. Ridiculous notion to expect someone only to comment on facts in relation to football anyway when 99% of discussion around the game is opinion.

 

For your perusal. Bob Moncurs View

 

KEVIN KEEGAN’S achieve-ments as Newcastle United boss should never be downplayed.

 

But I really couldn’t see the logic in coming out and saying that Alan Pardew will not see any of the £35m Andy Carroll sale money when the time comes to bolster his squad.

 

I’m a great believer that, when you’ve had your time as manager of a club, you should try to keep such thoughts a private matter.

 

In my opinion Kevin was ill-advised because, with the season going into the crucial final straight, it didn’t really help anybody.

 

Pardew has one of the toughest jobs in football to start with, and when an influential figure like Kevin comes out and says that people will sit up and take notice.

[Guest Your Name Here]

Bob’s not exactly keeping his thoughts to himself on this matter, and he didn’t keep his thoughts to himself in his role as a RN phone in pundit. Is it one rule for ex-managers and another for ex-players?

[Guest]

If I bookmark it leazes, what future event do you predict would cause me embarrassment?

 

 

You forgot to reply, Leazes