José Enrique

[Toonpack 9107]

I hardly know where to start, this is so full of irrational rubbish it's unbelievable.

 

If you don't wish to make a judgement on Mike Ashley, that is up to you, but I have, and I did it a while ago. Many people disagreed and I got flak for it, including the supposedly smart lads on skunkers and the True Faith writers [who move the goalposts like you are doing rather than admit they got it totally wrong]. To me, his limited ambition for the club is obvious, it is so obvious it sticks out a million miles and was so very early on after he took over. If you have seen it before it is easier to spot.......

 

I would interpret his limited ambition to be due to the fact that he’s in for over £100mill – all his own fault admittedly.

 

As for the Fairs Cup, I'm older than you, I saw every home game, to say I don't appreciate that when I have told you that I have met all the players and some of them have told me that the club should have built on this and moved on to more is an unbelievable comment.

 

Of course the club “should” have built on it, but they didn’t. BUT to say because they didn’t build on it means it was worth nowt is ludicrous, it was the last major thing we won, so to me it was the highest of the high anytime since, the game is about winning stuff after all.

 

The club needed a re-build and a period of consolidation before aiming higher again after Bobby Robson and the farce of Souness, I've said this, it was the same as the initial first few years of Bobby Robson until they backed him and he got the team back into the top places. You simply can't say they would not have done the same again having done it once, but I can say with absolutely certainty that Mike Ashley wouldn't because he has missed the boat twice already to do it, once when he lost Keegan through going behind his back and again this season now having sold our best striker on deadline day and repeated exactly the same incompetence shown when Milner was sold, showing that he has not learned from mistakes and in all probability now the conclusion is that he doesn't even want to.

 

First Bolded bit, no I can’t say for certain BUT based upon the way the world has turned I cannot conceive of where they could have got the money from, they certainly didn’t have it themselves.

 

Second bolded bit – KK said he’d have sold him, anyway how many times has he played since ????

 

You show your irrational hatred all the time by the way, when you constantly refer to "Shepherd" as the owner and running the club single handedly, when it was always the Halls and Shepherd. How many times does this basic common sense need to be said ?

 

Oh bloody hell man, it’s a label, you and me both know I mean the “regime” FFS was the face/embodiment of said regime.

 

Lastly, you need to understand the difference between "successful" and "bigger". Liverpool have been massively successful over 4 decades [by buying trophy players too ironically including some of ours, still you know best] but they are not bigger. The Keegan years and the overall Halls and Shepherd years have shown this, where we only needed a whiff of success to get bigger crowds and finish above them a few times. They only lose a few games and struggle to fill a 44000 stadium, we would fill a 70,000 with local support alone if we had even a fraction of the success they have had the Keegan years particularly proved that.

 

Sadly success begets “bigness” within the game. We didn’t get the success of winning despite the “whiff” of it and despite the if’s and if only’s, by any measure you want to use Liverpool have been and are still considered a bigger club than us. Any player given a fair choice with all things being equal would choose them over us just now (and for some time past) Very sad but true.

 

I'm expecting more rubbish in response by the way, especially a lack of awareness of the size of the club, you still don't tell us how often you supported the club before 1992 and how often since which says a lot about your views on the club and Kevin Keegan.

 

I am fully aware that NUFC is a massive club in any measure in all but the one that counts and that’s winning stuff, sadly clubs we could overtake in the “bigness” stakes have won lots of stuff and as such are considered bigger. Especially now as qualifying for the Champions league and it’s money are the new “winning things”, we missed that financial boat (or rather fell out of it).

 

As for my “support” – not that it’s relevant, some years all home games 70’s mainly and 80’s never religiously, some years half a dozen games maybe, since first game in 1969, I only ever had a season ticket after KK came back as a manager because the Mrs bought me it because she was pissed off how early I had to leave the house to get into the ground to “pay on the gate”. Plenty of gaps in attendance due to work and I’ve seen days when me and my mates tossed a coin on whether to go in or go to the pub, the game lost sometimes.

 

Not my be all and end all by any stretch.

 

Edit.

 

Liverpool supporters, by the way, look back on the Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish years as their standards and expectations [and it appears you foolishly do the same by insinuating they are "bigger" than us for it]. Would you also say they are "cherry picking" ?

 

No they’re not cherry picking because they actually won stuff for heavens sake which added to their reputation and expectation, the winning of LOTS of stuff also created their “bigness”. Just look at the size of the sponsorship deals the buggers get, 2nd only to Man U.

 

I really can’t get that emotional about it all to “hate” anyone, there’s a lot more to life than football to be honest, and I’ve felt that way for many years.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Toonpack

[Christmas Tree 4669]

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.........?

[Toonpack 9107]

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.........?

 

Good point

[manc-mag 1]

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.........?

 

Aye true. Leazes' threshold for inane, circular bullshit can't be underestimated because he has very few critical faculties. And the circularity is all his own, like some sort of comfort blanket. Really is a waste of time.

 

I'm hoping for (and by absolutely no means assuming) some meaningful re-investment this summer. Meaning both retention and recruitment. I'm hoping for (and by absolutely no means assuming) a bit more of a settled, 'middle way' approach to next year. Those things combined could yield progress in the league. If that's not on Ashley's agenda, I'd have no qualms about him focussing entirely on sale, as that'd be the absolute best use of his time.

[Guest]

You constantly claim that it's what happens on the pitch that you care about and not balance sheets. The club has inclined from it's state upon takeover, as we are in a better position. So to justify your statement that we are in decline you now refer to the rich list. The balance sheet.

 

You couldn't make it up

 

it IS what happens on the pitch. I'm pointing out to people like you, that revenues have also gone down and its useless making a profit of a few million quid if it isn't put back into the club and you still sell your best players [not that a projected profit of a few million quid is anything in premiership football terms anyway].

 

At the end of the day, you have to accept taking risks if you want the riches of the Champions League. The alternative is to spend as little as possible to try and stay in the premiership and keep gates as high as possible. Which do you prefer for NUFC ? [bear in mind, the gates will NOT stay at the levels they are when long term dissatisfation sets in]

 

 

I'd prefer that we took calculated risks when in a position to do so. If it IS what happens on the pitch, then you'll accept that we were declining before Ashley bought the club, and that has now been reversed and we have now inclined to a level above where we were on the day of purchase of the club, from the Halls and Shepherd. That's what the league table says, that's what's happened on the pitch.

 

I don't necessarily think we were declining, we had had a couple of disappointing years, but they recognised that mid table wasn't good enough and changed the manager and looked to change direction. This is the actions of a forward progressive club, not a club happy to settle for a "decline", unfortunately as your man will be absolutely delirious if we are a mid table along with supporters who have also had their expectations lowered, then you have to say that the club is in decline and those people are too stupid to see it.

 

All it took was a few signings like Robert and Bellamy, which incidentally is all it needed IMO when Keegan returned as manager, but your man fucked it up royally by selling Milner behind his back and not allowing him the funds, nor the funds or time from this very sale to manage his own team and sign his own players.

 

 

Do you genuinely believe that's true? Do you think a couple of Bellamy/Robert type signings (don't know who you are suggesting we realisitically signed btw) would have counteracted the poor attitude/culture of the squad?

 

Do you really believe that Big Sam, a manager who at the time built a reputation on spending fuck all, was the club's solution to it's problems? Do you not think it was desperation, and a clear indication that there was no money left to gamble with?

 

sigh.

 

I've said countless times that appointing Allardyce was a change of direction, the appointment of a manager who had proved he could put together a good team on a limited budget, because they realised they needed to tread water in the same way they did during Bobby Robsons first few years. There is nothing wrong with that, the ambition is still there, and arseholes like you would have been the first to criticise if they had gone marching on "spending money they didn't have". The Bellamy and Robert signings were made when they were able to do it again, and propelled the club back into the top 4.

 

The difference is - AGAIN - they saw mid table as the mediocrity that it is, whereas your man will be absolutely ecstatic to be a mid table team.

 

Understand ?

 

No, I expect you don't.

 

I'll allow time to show you, which it will.

 

 

Evidence?

 

What proof do you have that we're not 'treading the water' now, the same way we did back then?

 

Why do you refer to the Bellamy signing as some kind of big statement of intent, when Ben Arfa (who you refer to as bargain basement) cost a similar amount, and signed from a lower division club, something that you criticize heavily

Edited March 1, 2011 by AshleysSkidMark

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

The market was different in Bellamy's time. Ben Arfa didn't sign from a lower division club. A lot of irrational hatred here for Shepherd imo.

[LeazesMag 0]

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.........?

 

Aye true. Leazes' threshold for inane, circular bullshit can't be underestimated because he has very few critical faculties. And the circularity is all his own, like some sort of comfort blanket. Really is a waste of time.

 

I'm hoping for (and by absolutely no means assuming) some meaningful re-investment this summer. Meaning both retention and recruitment. I'm hoping for (and by absolutely no means assuming) a bit more of a settled, 'middle way' approach to next year. Those things combined could yield progress in the league. If that's not on Ashley's agenda, I'd have no qualms about him focussing entirely on sale, as that'd be the absolute best use of his time.

 

the trouble is son, I'm right. I told you that the Villa "master plan" you advocated wouldn't match the "planless" Halls and Shepherd and I was right. You're an idiot, and pathetic that you don't acknowledge that you got it all wrong.

 

As well as obsessed, still.

 

What a pity you spent all that time while we played in the Champions League and europe whinging on about how embarrassing it all was. Pathetic.

[LeazesMag 0]

You constantly claim that it's what happens on the pitch that you care about and not balance sheets. The club has inclined from it's state upon takeover, as we are in a better position. So to justify your statement that we are in decline you now refer to the rich list. The balance sheet.

 

You couldn't make it up

 

it IS what happens on the pitch. I'm pointing out to people like you, that revenues have also gone down and its useless making a profit of a few million quid if it isn't put back into the club and you still sell your best players [not that a projected profit of a few million quid is anything in premiership football terms anyway].

 

At the end of the day, you have to accept taking risks if you want the riches of the Champions League. The alternative is to spend as little as possible to try and stay in the premiership and keep gates as high as possible. Which do you prefer for NUFC ? [bear in mind, the gates will NOT stay at the levels they are when long term dissatisfation sets in]

 

 

I'd prefer that we took calculated risks when in a position to do so. If it IS what happens on the pitch, then you'll accept that we were declining before Ashley bought the club, and that has now been reversed and we have now inclined to a level above where we were on the day of purchase of the club, from the Halls and Shepherd. That's what the league table says, that's what's happened on the pitch.

 

I don't necessarily think we were declining, we had had a couple of disappointing years, but they recognised that mid table wasn't good enough and changed the manager and looked to change direction. This is the actions of a forward progressive club, not a club happy to settle for a "decline", unfortunately as your man will be absolutely delirious if we are a mid table along with supporters who have also had their expectations lowered, then you have to say that the club is in decline and those people are too stupid to see it.

 

All it took was a few signings like Robert and Bellamy, which incidentally is all it needed IMO when Keegan returned as manager, but your man fucked it up royally by selling Milner behind his back and not allowing him the funds, nor the funds or time from this very sale to manage his own team and sign his own players.

 

 

Do you genuinely believe that's true? Do you think a couple of Bellamy/Robert type signings (don't know who you are suggesting we realisitically signed btw) would have counteracted the poor attitude/culture of the squad?

 

Do you really believe that Big Sam, a manager who at the time built a reputation on spending fuck all, was the club's solution to it's problems? Do you not think it was desperation, and a clear indication that there was no money left to gamble with?

 

sigh.

 

I've said countless times that appointing Allardyce was a change of direction, the appointment of a manager who had proved he could put together a good team on a limited budget, because they realised they needed to tread water in the same way they did during Bobby Robsons first few years. There is nothing wrong with that, the ambition is still there, and arseholes like you would have been the first to criticise if they had gone marching on "spending money they didn't have". The Bellamy and Robert signings were made when they were able to do it again, and propelled the club back into the top 4.

 

The difference is - AGAIN - they saw mid table as the mediocrity that it is, whereas your man will be absolutely ecstatic to be a mid table team.

 

Understand ?

 

No, I expect you don't.

 

I'll allow time to show you, which it will.

 

 

Evidence?

 

What proof do you have that we're not 'treading the water' now, the same way we did back then?

 

Why do you refer to the Bellamy signing as some kind of big statement of intent, when Ben Arfa (who you refer to as bargain basement) cost a similar amount, and signed from a lower division club, something that you criticize heavily

 

Time will tell. You're forever clueless

[LeazesMag 0]

Are we going to have to endure years of "irrational hatred" output now? Looks like your new buzz-phrase tbh, and could hardly be less appropriate when peddled in response to structured argument, (whether you happen to agree with it or not).

 

When people refer to Shepherd's tenure, it's just shorthand for the 'Hall's and Shepherd'. It's not symptomatic of 'irrational hatred' simply because people use it as a convenient abbreviation and you make no valid point by highlighting the percentage shareholdings. It's just shorthand. The irrational bit is where you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the Shepherd regime or the (on balance of probabilities) relative unlikelihood of it achieving a renaissance of it's European period (etc etc). That and interpreting anyone pointing that out as being a statement that Ashley will excede Shepherd's aggregated European finishes. Nobody does say that. What they do say though is they think it's pretty clear Shepherd (and Hall) couldn't do it either these days, based on myriad factors, both internal and external of NUFC.

 

That can't be proved one way or another either so you're neither right or wrong, whether you like it or not.

 

obsessed.

 

And I'm right.

 

You'll see.

[LeazesMag 0]

I hardly know where to start, this is so full of irrational rubbish it's unbelievable.

 

If you don't wish to make a judgement on Mike Ashley, that is up to you, but I have, and I did it a while ago. Many people disagreed and I got flak for it, including the supposedly smart lads on skunkers and the True Faith writers [who move the goalposts like you are doing rather than admit they got it totally wrong]. To me, his limited ambition for the club is obvious, it is so obvious it sticks out a million miles and was so very early on after he took over. If you have seen it before it is easier to spot.......

 

I would interpret his limited ambition to be due to the fact that he’s in for over £100mill – all his own fault admittedly.

 

As for the Fairs Cup, I'm older than you, I saw every home game, to say I don't appreciate that when I have told you that I have met all the players and some of them have told me that the club should have built on this and moved on to more is an unbelievable comment.

 

Of course the club “should” have built on it, but they didn’t. BUT to say because they didn’t build on it means it was worth nowt is ludicrous, it was the last major thing we won, so to me it was the highest of the high anytime since, the game is about winning stuff after all.

 

The club needed a re-build and a period of consolidation before aiming higher again after Bobby Robson and the farce of Souness, I've said this, it was the same as the initial first few years of Bobby Robson until they backed him and he got the team back into the top places. You simply can't say they would not have done the same again having done it once, but I can say with absolutely certainty that Mike Ashley wouldn't because he has missed the boat twice already to do it, once when he lost Keegan through going behind his back and again this season now having sold our best striker on deadline day and repeated exactly the same incompetence shown when Milner was sold, showing that he has not learned from mistakes and in all probability now the conclusion is that he doesn't even want to.

 

First Bolded bit, no I can’t say for certain BUT based upon the way the world has turned I cannot conceive of where they could have got the money from, they certainly didn’t have it themselves.

 

Second bolded bit – KK said he’d have sold him, anyway how many times has he played since ????

 

You show your irrational hatred all the time by the way, when you constantly refer to "Shepherd" as the owner and running the club single handedly, when it was always the Halls and Shepherd. How many times does this basic common sense need to be said ?

 

Oh bloody hell man, it’s a label, you and me both know I mean the “regime” FFS was the face/embodiment of said regime.

 

Lastly, you need to understand the difference between "successful" and "bigger". Liverpool have been massively successful over 4 decades [by buying trophy players too ironically including some of ours, still you know best] but they are not bigger. The Keegan years and the overall Halls and Shepherd years have shown this, where we only needed a whiff of success to get bigger crowds and finish above them a few times. They only lose a few games and struggle to fill a 44000 stadium, we would fill a 70,000 with local support alone if we had even a fraction of the success they have had the Keegan years particularly proved that.

 

Sadly success begets “bigness” within the game. We didn’t get the success of winning despite the “whiff” of it and despite the if’s and if only’s, by any measure you want to use Liverpool have been and are still considered a bigger club than us. Any player given a fair choice with all things being equal would choose them over us just now (and for some time past) Very sad but true.

 

I'm expecting more rubbish in response by the way, especially a lack of awareness of the size of the club, you still don't tell us how often you supported the club before 1992 and how often since which says a lot about your views on the club and Kevin Keegan.

 

I am fully aware that NUFC is a massive club in any measure in all but the one that counts and that’s winning stuff, sadly clubs we could overtake in the “bigness” stakes have won lots of stuff and as such are considered bigger. Especially now as qualifying for the Champions league and it’s money are the new “winning things”, we missed that financial boat (or rather fell out of it).

 

As for my “support” – not that it’s relevant, some years all home games 70’s mainly and 80’s never religiously, some years half a dozen games maybe, since first game in 1969, I only ever had a season ticket after KK came back as a manager because the Mrs bought me it because she was pissed off how early I had to leave the house to get into the ground to “pay on the gate”. Plenty of gaps in attendance due to work and I’ve seen days when me and my mates tossed a coin on whether to go in or go to the pub, the game lost sometimes.

 

Not my be all and end all by any stretch.

 

Edit.

 

Liverpool supporters, by the way, look back on the Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish years as their standards and expectations [and it appears you foolishly do the same by insinuating they are "bigger" than us for it]. Would you also say they are "cherry picking" ?

 

No they’re not cherry picking because they actually won stuff for heavens sake which added to their reputation and expectation, the winning of LOTS of stuff also created their “bigness”. Just look at the size of the sponsorship deals the buggers get, 2nd only to Man U.

 

I really can’t get that emotional about it all to “hate” anyone, there’s a lot more to life than football to be honest, and I’ve felt that way for many years.

 

bookmark this thread.

 

Edit. In actual fact, the bit in bold, suggests you do understand , a little bit, but probably don't realise it. We won't win things on the scale of Liverpool or anywhere near while selling them our best players..........speculate to accumulate, the winners take risks and the losers sell players to the risk takers, we are back among the also rans in football, it was nice to compete at the top table for a while, I hope everybody enjoyed it and appreciated it.

Edited March 1, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

The market was different in Bellamy's time. Ben Arfa didn't sign from a lower division club. A lot of irrational hatred here for Shepherd imo.

 

aye, irrational.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

A lot of it is rational, too.

[Guest]

I hardly know where to start, this is so full of irrational rubbish it's unbelievable.

 

If you don't wish to make a judgement on Mike Ashley, that is up to you, but I have, and I did it a while ago. Many people disagreed and I got flak for it, including the supposedly smart lads on skunkers and the True Faith writers [who move the goalposts like you are doing rather than admit they got it totally wrong]. To me, his limited ambition for the club is obvious, it is so obvious it sticks out a million miles and was so very early on after he took over. If you have seen it before it is easier to spot.......

 

I would interpret his limited ambition to be due to the fact that he’s in for over £100mill – all his own fault admittedly.

 

As for the Fairs Cup, I'm older than you, I saw every home game, to say I don't appreciate that when I have told you that I have met all the players and some of them have told me that the club should have built on this and moved on to more is an unbelievable comment.

 

Of course the club “should” have built on it, but they didn’t. BUT to say because they didn’t build on it means it was worth nowt is ludicrous, it was the last major thing we won, so to me it was the highest of the high anytime since, the game is about winning stuff after all.

 

The club needed a re-build and a period of consolidation before aiming higher again after Bobby Robson and the farce of Souness, I've said this, it was the same as the initial first few years of Bobby Robson until they backed him and he got the team back into the top places. You simply can't say they would not have done the same again having done it once, but I can say with absolutely certainty that Mike Ashley wouldn't because he has missed the boat twice already to do it, once when he lost Keegan through going behind his back and again this season now having sold our best striker on deadline day and repeated exactly the same incompetence shown when Milner was sold, showing that he has not learned from mistakes and in all probability now the conclusion is that he doesn't even want to.

 

First Bolded bit, no I can’t say for certain BUT based upon the way the world has turned I cannot conceive of where they could have got the money from, they certainly didn’t have it themselves.

 

Second bolded bit – KK said he’d have sold him, anyway how many times has he played since ????

 

You show your irrational hatred all the time by the way, when you constantly refer to "Shepherd" as the owner and running the club single handedly, when it was always the Halls and Shepherd. How many times does this basic common sense need to be said ?

 

Oh bloody hell man, it’s a label, you and me both know I mean the “regime” FFS was the face/embodiment of said regime.

 

Lastly, you need to understand the difference between "successful" and "bigger". Liverpool have been massively successful over 4 decades [by buying trophy players too ironically including some of ours, still you know best] but they are not bigger. The Keegan years and the overall Halls and Shepherd years have shown this, where we only needed a whiff of success to get bigger crowds and finish above them a few times. They only lose a few games and struggle to fill a 44000 stadium, we would fill a 70,000 with local support alone if we had even a fraction of the success they have had the Keegan years particularly proved that.

 

Sadly success begets “bigness” within the game. We didn’t get the success of winning despite the “whiff” of it and despite the if’s and if only’s, by any measure you want to use Liverpool have been and are still considered a bigger club than us. Any player given a fair choice with all things being equal would choose them over us just now (and for some time past) Very sad but true.

 

I'm expecting more rubbish in response by the way, especially a lack of awareness of the size of the club, you still don't tell us how often you supported the club before 1992 and how often since which says a lot about your views on the club and Kevin Keegan.

 

I am fully aware that NUFC is a massive club in any measure in all but the one that counts and that’s winning stuff, sadly clubs we could overtake in the “bigness” stakes have won lots of stuff and as such are considered bigger. Especially now as qualifying for the Champions league and it’s money are the new “winning things”, we missed that financial boat (or rather fell out of it).

 

As for my “support” – not that it’s relevant, some years all home games 70’s mainly and 80’s never religiously, some years half a dozen games maybe, since first game in 1969, I only ever had a season ticket after KK came back as a manager because the Mrs bought me it because she was pissed off how early I had to leave the house to get into the ground to “pay on the gate”. Plenty of gaps in attendance due to work and I’ve seen days when me and my mates tossed a coin on whether to go in or go to the pub, the game lost sometimes.

 

Not my be all and end all by any stretch.

 

Edit.

 

Liverpool supporters, by the way, look back on the Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish years as their standards and expectations [and it appears you foolishly do the same by insinuating they are "bigger" than us for it]. Would you also say they are "cherry picking" ?

 

No they’re not cherry picking because they actually won stuff for heavens sake which added to their reputation and expectation, the winning of LOTS of stuff also created their “bigness”. Just look at the size of the sponsorship deals the buggers get, 2nd only to Man U.

 

I really can’t get that emotional about it all to “hate” anyone, there’s a lot more to life than football to be honest, and I’ve felt that way for many years.

 

bookmark this thread.

 

Edit. In actual fact, the bit in bold, suggests you do understand , a little bit, but probably don't realise it. We won't win things on the scale of Liverpool or anywhere near while selling them our best players..........speculate to accumulate, the winners take risks and the losers sell players to the risk takers, we are back among the also rans in football, it was nice to compete at the top table for a while, I hope everybody enjoyed it and appreciated it.

 

 

We didn't when we weren't selling our best players either, is the point, in fact, we went backwards, whilst not selling our best players. The decline caused by speculating, without accumulating (because we failed to get back into europe) was what caused the financial state we were in when Ashley bought the club.

 

 

If a club speculates and fails to accumulate, Leazes, what, in your opinion, should be the next move?

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Talk about derailing a thread.

[Guest]

He refers to bargain basement ben arfa and lower league signings

 

Then he uses Bellamy as an example of an ambitious signing. Costing little more then Ben Arfa and from the lower leagues

[manc-mag 1]

Are we going to have to endure years of "irrational hatred" output now? Looks like your new buzz-phrase tbh, and could hardly be less appropriate when peddled in response to structured argument, (whether you happen to agree with it or not).

 

When people refer to Shepherd's tenure, it's just shorthand for the 'Hall's and Shepherd'. It's not symptomatic of 'irrational hatred' simply because people use it as a convenient abbreviation and you make no valid point by highlighting the percentage shareholdings. It's just shorthand. The irrational bit is where you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the Shepherd regime or the (on balance of probabilities) relative unlikelihood of it achieving a renaissance of it's European period (etc etc). That and interpreting anyone pointing that out as being a statement that Ashley will excede Shepherd's aggregated European finishes. Nobody does say that. What they do say though is they think it's pretty clear Shepherd (and Hall) couldn't do it either these days, based on myriad factors, both internal and external of NUFC.

 

That can't be proved one way or another either so you're neither right or wrong, whether you like it or not.

 

obsessed.

 

And I'm right.

 

You'll see.

 

The occurrence of which future event/events would prove you 'right'?

[Guest]

Are we going to have to endure years of "irrational hatred" output now? Looks like your new buzz-phrase tbh, and could hardly be less appropriate when peddled in response to structured argument, (whether you happen to agree with it or not).

 

When people refer to Shepherd's tenure, it's just shorthand for the 'Hall's and Shepherd'. It's not symptomatic of 'irrational hatred' simply because people use it as a convenient abbreviation and you make no valid point by highlighting the percentage shareholdings. It's just shorthand. The irrational bit is where you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the Shepherd regime or the (on balance of probabilities) relative unlikelihood of it achieving a renaissance of it's European period (etc etc). That and interpreting anyone pointing that out as being a statement that Ashley will excede Shepherd's aggregated European finishes. Nobody does say that. What they do say though is they think it's pretty clear Shepherd (and Hall) couldn't do it either these days, based on myriad factors, both internal and external of NUFC.

 

That can't be proved one way or another either so you're neither right or wrong, whether you like it or not.

 

obsessed.

 

And I'm right.

 

You'll see.

 

The occurrence of which future event/events would prove you 'right'?

 

obsessed lemonade europe ambitious trophy signing right you'll see understand speculate clueless accumulate

[manc-mag 1]

Are we going to have to endure years of "irrational hatred" output now? Looks like your new buzz-phrase tbh, and could hardly be less appropriate when peddled in response to structured argument, (whether you happen to agree with it or not).

 

When people refer to Shepherd's tenure, it's just shorthand for the 'Hall's and Shepherd'. It's not symptomatic of 'irrational hatred' simply because people use it as a convenient abbreviation and you make no valid point by highlighting the percentage shareholdings. It's just shorthand. The irrational bit is where you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the Shepherd regime or the (on balance of probabilities) relative unlikelihood of it achieving a renaissance of it's European period (etc etc). That and interpreting anyone pointing that out as being a statement that Ashley will excede Shepherd's aggregated European finishes. Nobody does say that. What they do say though is they think it's pretty clear Shepherd (and Hall) couldn't do it either these days, based on myriad factors, both internal and external of NUFC.

 

That can't be proved one way or another either so you're neither right or wrong, whether you like it or not.

 

obsessed.

 

And I'm right.

 

You'll see.

 

The occurrence of which future event/events would prove you 'right'?

 

obsessed lemonade europe ambitious trophy signing right you'll see understand speculate clueless accumulate

 

 

Seriously though, he has got absolutely no valid answer to that perfectly straightforward question.

[Craig 6670]

I'm surprised at you Samuel. Thought you knew better than to get embroiled in this type of debate with Leazes...

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah fuckoffyouboringwankers

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Guest]

Are we going to have to endure years of "irrational hatred" output now? Looks like your new buzz-phrase tbh, and could hardly be less appropriate when peddled in response to structured argument, (whether you happen to agree with it or not).

 

When people refer to Shepherd's tenure, it's just shorthand for the 'Hall's and Shepherd'. It's not symptomatic of 'irrational hatred' simply because people use it as a convenient abbreviation and you make no valid point by highlighting the percentage shareholdings. It's just shorthand. The irrational bit is where you refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the Shepherd regime or the (on balance of probabilities) relative unlikelihood of it achieving a renaissance of it's European period (etc etc). That and interpreting anyone pointing that out as being a statement that Ashley will excede Shepherd's aggregated European finishes. Nobody does say that. What they do say though is they think it's pretty clear Shepherd (and Hall) couldn't do it either these days, based on myriad factors, both internal and external of NUFC.

 

That can't be proved one way or another either so you're neither right or wrong, whether you like it or not.

 

obsessed.

 

And I'm right.

 

You'll see.

 

The occurrence of which future event/events would prove you 'right'?

 

obsessed lemonade europe ambitious trophy signing right you'll see understand speculate clueless accumulate

 

 

Seriously though, he has got absolutely no valid answer to that perfectly straightforward question.

 

 

He'll counter it with some rehashed unrelated statement for sure

[manc-mag 1]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah fuckoffyouboringwankers

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

 

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah fuckoffyouboringwankers

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah 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[LeazesMag 0]

I hardly know where to start, this is so full of irrational rubbish it's unbelievable.

 

If you don't wish to make a judgement on Mike Ashley, that is up to you, but I have, and I did it a while ago. Many people disagreed and I got flak for it, including the supposedly smart lads on skunkers and the True Faith writers [who move the goalposts like you are doing rather than admit they got it totally wrong]. To me, his limited ambition for the club is obvious, it is so obvious it sticks out a million miles and was so very early on after he took over. If you have seen it before it is easier to spot.......

 

I would interpret his limited ambition to be due to the fact that he’s in for over £100mill – all his own fault admittedly.

 

As for the Fairs Cup, I'm older than you, I saw every home game, to say I don't appreciate that when I have told you that I have met all the players and some of them have told me that the club should have built on this and moved on to more is an unbelievable comment.

 

Of course the club “should” have built on it, but they didn’t. BUT to say because they didn’t build on it means it was worth nowt is ludicrous, it was the last major thing we won, so to me it was the highest of the high anytime since, the game is about winning stuff after all.

 

The club needed a re-build and a period of consolidation before aiming higher again after Bobby Robson and the farce of Souness, I've said this, it was the same as the initial first few years of Bobby Robson until they backed him and he got the team back into the top places. You simply can't say they would not have done the same again having done it once, but I can say with absolutely certainty that Mike Ashley wouldn't because he has missed the boat twice already to do it, once when he lost Keegan through going behind his back and again this season now having sold our best striker on deadline day and repeated exactly the same incompetence shown when Milner was sold, showing that he has not learned from mistakes and in all probability now the conclusion is that he doesn't even want to.

 

First Bolded bit, no I can’t say for certain BUT based upon the way the world has turned I cannot conceive of where they could have got the money from, they certainly didn’t have it themselves.

 

Second bolded bit – KK said he’d have sold him, anyway how many times has he played since ????

 

You show your irrational hatred all the time by the way, when you constantly refer to "Shepherd" as the owner and running the club single handedly, when it was always the Halls and Shepherd. How many times does this basic common sense need to be said ?

 

Oh bloody hell man, it’s a label, you and me both know I mean the “regime” FFS was the face/embodiment of said regime.

 

Lastly, you need to understand the difference between "successful" and "bigger". Liverpool have been massively successful over 4 decades [by buying trophy players too ironically including some of ours, still you know best] but they are not bigger. The Keegan years and the overall Halls and Shepherd years have shown this, where we only needed a whiff of success to get bigger crowds and finish above them a few times. They only lose a few games and struggle to fill a 44000 stadium, we would fill a 70,000 with local support alone if we had even a fraction of the success they have had the Keegan years particularly proved that.

 

Sadly success begets “bigness” within the game. We didn’t get the success of winning despite the “whiff” of it and despite the if’s and if only’s, by any measure you want to use Liverpool have been and are still considered a bigger club than us. Any player given a fair choice with all things being equal would choose them over us just now (and for some time past) Very sad but true.

 

I'm expecting more rubbish in response by the way, especially a lack of awareness of the size of the club, you still don't tell us how often you supported the club before 1992 and how often since which says a lot about your views on the club and Kevin Keegan.

 

I am fully aware that NUFC is a massive club in any measure in all but the one that counts and that’s winning stuff, sadly clubs we could overtake in the “bigness” stakes have won lots of stuff and as such are considered bigger. Especially now as qualifying for the Champions league and it’s money are the new “winning things”, we missed that financial boat (or rather fell out of it).

 

As for my “support” – not that it’s relevant, some years all home games 70’s mainly and 80’s never religiously, some years half a dozen games maybe, since first game in 1969, I only ever had a season ticket after KK came back as a manager because the Mrs bought me it because she was pissed off how early I had to leave the house to get into the ground to “pay on the gate”. Plenty of gaps in attendance due to work and I’ve seen days when me and my mates tossed a coin on whether to go in or go to the pub, the game lost sometimes.

 

Not my be all and end all by any stretch.

 

Edit.

 

Liverpool supporters, by the way, look back on the Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish years as their standards and expectations [and it appears you foolishly do the same by insinuating they are "bigger" than us for it]. Would you also say they are "cherry picking" ?

 

No they’re not cherry picking because they actually won stuff for heavens sake which added to their reputation and expectation, the winning of LOTS of stuff also created their “bigness”. Just look at the size of the sponsorship deals the buggers get, 2nd only to Man U.

 

I really can’t get that emotional about it all to “hate” anyone, there’s a lot more to life than football to be honest, and I’ve felt that way for many years.

 

bookmark this thread.

 

Edit. In actual fact, the bit in bold, suggests you do understand , a little bit, but probably don't realise it. We won't win things on the scale of Liverpool or anywhere near while selling them our best players..........speculate to accumulate, the winners take risks and the losers sell players to the risk takers, we are back among the also rans in football, it was nice to compete at the top table for a while, I hope everybody enjoyed it and appreciated it.

 

 

We didn't when we weren't selling our best players either, is the point, in fact, we went backwards, whilst not selling our best players. The decline caused by speculating, without accumulating (because we failed to get back into europe) was what caused the financial state we were in when Ashley bought the club.

 

 

If a club speculates and fails to accumulate, Leazes, what, in your opinion, should be the next move?

 

read through a few thousand of my posts again where I've explained football progress to you.

 

If you still think bringing 2nd rate players to the club is the way back to the top, you have a serious common sense problem

Edited March 1, 2011 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

I'm surprised at you Samuel. Thought you knew better than to get embroiled in this type of debate with Leazes...

 

Aye, I know. Even Fish knew when to call it a day ffs.