José Enrique

[manc-mag 1]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

 

At the end of the day, Leeds are on their way back to the top league. They have only in effect been relegated and are now on the way back, but talk to a Leeds supporter and they will tell you about their run to the Champions League semi final and going to Barcelona, Rome, Milan etc etc [just like us in fact].

 

If you seriously, seriously prefer to spend years in total anonymity - like the mackems under Bob Murray and by fuck didn't we lord it over them and let them know about it - that is your choice. Not me though. You want success when you can, and go for it, thats what football is all about. The big clubs come back again, you want your team to try and win you trophies and play at the top.

 

The Ridsdale scaremongering is abolute bollocks. The nearest we came to administration was in 1991, after years of being run by clowns like Mike Ashley. Newcastle are twice the club Leeds are anyway.

 

And what if Leeds weren't on their way back btw? I only ask this as you deploy the possibility of NUFC getting relegated under Ashley and not coming straight back up again (cf last season) when that suits your argument.

[Guest alex]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Its not as simple as that though, even if we try and simplify things there are still many distinct possibile interpretations of Ashley.

 

1, He wants to destroy us and asset strip the club

2, He wants to make a profit to recoup his losses and believes yo-yo'ing between the leagues is the best way.

3, He wants a mid-table premiership club that makes profit from selling players bought cheap and developed by the club

4, He wants slow steady progress over time and has decided not to invest large capital

 

There are more of course. None of those are inconsistent with him selling Carroll. Its not the benefit of the doubt, its just that nothing says incontrovertibly that one of them is true.

I accept that. I'm a bit tired of the 'wait and see' line being trotted out though. The same lad, i.e. Jay, was saying that when Hughton went, i.e. wait and see, we might get Jol. We got Pardew, he was fucked off, yet now it's the same line. I don't understand the willingness to keep giving the bloke chances.

[LeazesMag 0]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

 

you don't need a crystal ball, you just need to open your eyes and see the obvious.

 

I think if you accept we aren't going to attempt to rival the other top clubs, then you are - and it seems you are - prepared to accept real mediocrity at this football club. We aren't inferior to Liverpool, they have been massively successful - because they bought quality footballers and paid the going rate where necessary - so who are you to say they have been doing it all wrong and we are doing it correctly ? What utter rubbish.

 

If we show ambition to succeed, then our best players will not want to leave for career or monetary reasons. Its that simple.

[manc-mag 1]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

[ChezGiven 0]

really really hope he stays with us. The Club are moving forward . He is a quality Left back. The best one we have had at the club for years. Be gutted if he left

 

 

Incontrovertibly. Last season we were in the championship, at the start of the season survival seemed the most we could hope for, by mid-season survival looks guaranteed. If we win on saturday, we will be looking to finish top half. That appears to be progress, whichever way you look at it. If you take 1996 as your starting point, then we have gone backwards. If you take relegation as the starting point, we've moved forward.

 

You like facts, those are the barest of facts regarding the direction of the club. Of course, Carroll's sale is a clear step backwards but only if he goes on to fulfill his potential. If he doesnt, selling him wasnt a step backwards, it was a fucking good bit of business. Anyway, 10 steps forward and 1 step backwards is still 9 steps forward

 

People have used the Carroll sale to come up with pretty far reaching conclusions about the future of the club, which is fair enough, it did wipe out the positivity from all the other things that were going right. However, if one player transaction defines a club then presumably everyone will change their mind if Enrique signs a new deal when we are mathematically safe? Would be interested in responses to this last part, as its clearly the one of the biggest uncertainties for the fans at the minute.

 

1996 ? Relegation ?

 

If you take 2004, Arsenal have gone backwards by comparison. If you take 2009, Manu went backwards last season by comparison. This season, Chelsea won't win the premiership so does that also mean they have gone backwards ? I don't get the point of cherry picking a season to try and prove a point like this. Football is always about clubs having ups and downs.

 

What I see is a club that is not geared to success, or attempting to compete with the top clubs. A few results good or bad, or an odd season in the top half of the top flight, changes nothing. This football club is not geared to attempt to compete regularly in europe, and this is not going to change under this owner. If he does I will admit that I read him incorrectly, but I'm confident that what I have been saying since early on in his ownership continues to be absolutely correct. The sale of Carrol only re-inforces what I have always said. This money will not be re-invested, and what we do see will be invested on players or chancers with the eventual outcome and aim being survival or mid table comfort at best.

 

I find it increasingly perplexing that people are STILL giving this man the benefit of the doubt.

 

It sticks out a mile.

 

The point was about us and our direction, not Man U or Arsenal. Sticking to the point, our direction is not backwards. 'Since relegation, the club has moved forward' is a fact. If you want to know which direction a car is moving in, you dont summarise its vectors over 15 years, you'd probably start within the last few minutes. Thats how an assessment of direction works.

 

Anyway, i dont understand this benefit of the doubt thing because i dont understand what his dastardly plan is. If i am giving him the benefit of the doubt, what am i doubting; 1, 2, or 3, above ?

 

If his evil plan is 'not to be bothered about us challenging for honours' then aye, its all fucked as we all need hope but am struggling to get annoyed about that when we all agreed that survival this season would be a decent result.

 

I dont get what everyone thinks his end-game is i guess and thats a genuinely open statement for discussion.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

He`s running the club within its means not within his means. The club will never be in a financial mess with him in charge but he`s never gonna chuck cash at it for fun, he`s nowhere near Roman or Mansoor when it comes to wealth but he could chuck in 15-20 mil for a couple of good players I agree.

 

Put yourself in his shoes tho`, you come to a game and get slated and called a fat cunt, your wife and kids see this?? Would you wanna put money in??

[Guest alex]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

He does but wont admit it

[LeazesMag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

He`s running the club within its means not within his means. The club will never be in a financial mess with him in charge but he`s never gonna chuck cash at it for fun, he`s nowhere near Roman or Mansoor when it comes to wealth but he could chuck in 15-20 mil for a couple of good players I agree.

 

Put yourself in his shoes tho`, you come to a game and get slated and called a fat cunt, your wife and kids see this?? Would you wanna put money in??

 

when he bought the club, most people thought he was the dogs bollocks just because he wasn't Fat Fred ? Laughable or what. Even more so, when he bought people pints in the Bigg Market and went home thinking how stupid all those Geordies were for being taken in by a blatant PR gimmick.

 

He's done it all himself.

[LeazesMag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

 

Obsessed.

 

Fuck off. You're wrong. I know you think you're a smart lad, but you're a thick idiot.

 

 

Read my comments, I'm only commenting on the last bit of Alex's post, the only difference being that - unlike others - I don't clip his post before replying..........

Edited February 22, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Guest alex]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

He`s running the club within its means not within his means. The club will never be in a financial mess with him in charge but he`s never gonna chuck cash at it for fun, he`s nowhere near Roman or Mansoor when it comes to wealth but he could chuck in 15-20 mil for a couple of good players I agree.

 

Put yourself in his shoes tho`, you come to a game and get slated and called a fat cunt, your wife and kids see this?? Would you wanna put money in??

He was only called a cunt after KK left. KK only left after Ashley reneged on the promise made to himself (when KK took the job) that plenty money was available for players. This promise was subsequently made to the fans via the match programme at the start of the 2008-09 season. The latter was over a year after he'd bought the club and after the world wide financial crisis had kicked in too so it's not like the lies could be blamed on unforeseen events. So I'm a little short on sympathy for him. The mess is entirely his own making.

Edited February 22, 2011 by alex

[manc-mag 1]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

 

I've no sympathy with him for 'how much he's had to spend' like as he's a billionaire who didn't do due diligence ffs. His own luck out. At the same time if it's a fact he has done that and it was required to be done (interest free loan or however), that remains a fact that has to be acknowledged and will no doubt affect how much additional cash he's willing to make available.

 

KK was just a horrible mess, gutting and eminently avoidable. Oh and entirely Ashley's fault.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

He`s running the club within its means not within his means. The club will never be in a financial mess with him in charge but he`s never gonna chuck cash at it for fun, he`s nowhere near Roman or Mansoor when it comes to wealth but he could chuck in 15-20 mil for a couple of good players I agree.

 

Put yourself in his shoes tho`, you come to a game and get slated and called a fat cunt, your wife and kids see this?? Would you wanna put money in??

 

when he bought the club, most people thought he was the dogs bollocks just because he wasn't Fat Fred ? Laughable or what. Even more so, when he bought people pints in the Bigg Market and went home thinking how stupid all those Geordies were for being taken in by a blatant PR gimmick.

 

He's done it all himself.

So you would rather Fat Fred had hung onto the club?? Simple yes or no

[manc-mag 1]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

 

Obsessed.

 

Fuck off. You're wrong. I know you think you're a smart lad, but you're a thick idiot.

 

 

Read my comments, I'm only commenting on the last bit of Alex's post, the only difference being that - unlike others - I don't clip his post before replying..........

 

You're thick as mince, lad.

[ChezGiven 0]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

He's a shit owner as manc-mag points out, he no longer gives a shit about the fans its just business. He's fucking stupid, without doubt for the reasons you just point out.

 

My question is, whats his business? Where is he trying to take his investment? I obviously dont know but then i dont even really know what the doomsday scenario is either that is getting put forward.

 

His greatest crime is settling for less than we can acheive but then thats settling for less than his investment can acheive. If he sells Enrique and Tiote this summer and we fall back to the bottom of the league and out, it makes him an idiot as its his investment that suffers.

 

What i find the hardest to understand is that in the 12 games to go thread, people are happily predicting 50 points. There is a disconnect in logic in all of this.

[LeazesMag 0]

really really hope he stays with us. The Club are moving forward . He is a quality Left back. The best one we have had at the club for years. Be gutted if he left

 

 

Incontrovertibly. Last season we were in the championship, at the start of the season survival seemed the most we could hope for, by mid-season survival looks guaranteed. If we win on saturday, we will be looking to finish top half. That appears to be progress, whichever way you look at it. If you take 1996 as your starting point, then we have gone backwards. If you take relegation as the starting point, we've moved forward.

 

You like facts, those are the barest of facts regarding the direction of the club. Of course, Carroll's sale is a clear step backwards but only if he goes on to fulfill his potential. If he doesnt, selling him wasnt a step backwards, it was a fucking good bit of business. Anyway, 10 steps forward and 1 step backwards is still 9 steps forward

 

People have used the Carroll sale to come up with pretty far reaching conclusions about the future of the club, which is fair enough, it did wipe out the positivity from all the other things that were going right. However, if one player transaction defines a club then presumably everyone will change their mind if Enrique signs a new deal when we are mathematically safe? Would be interested in responses to this last part, as its clearly the one of the biggest uncertainties for the fans at the minute.

 

1996 ? Relegation ?

 

If you take 2004, Arsenal have gone backwards by comparison. If you take 2009, Manu went backwards last season by comparison. This season, Chelsea won't win the premiership so does that also mean they have gone backwards ? I don't get the point of cherry picking a season to try and prove a point like this. Football is always about clubs having ups and downs.

 

What I see is a club that is not geared to success, or attempting to compete with the top clubs. A few results good or bad, or an odd season in the top half of the top flight, changes nothing. This football club is not geared to attempt to compete regularly in europe, and this is not going to change under this owner. If he does I will admit that I read him incorrectly, but I'm confident that what I have been saying since early on in his ownership continues to be absolutely correct. The sale of Carrol only re-inforces what I have always said. This money will not be re-invested, and what we do see will be invested on players or chancers with the eventual outcome and aim being survival or mid table comfort at best.

 

I find it increasingly perplexing that people are STILL giving this man the benefit of the doubt.

 

It sticks out a mile.

 

The point was about us and our direction, not Man U or Arsenal. Sticking to the point, our direction is not backwards. 'Since relegation, the club has moved forward' is a fact. If you want to know which direction a car is moving in, you dont summarise its vectors over 15 years, you'd probably start within the last few minutes. Thats how an assessment of direction works.

 

Anyway, i dont understand this benefit of the doubt thing because i dont understand what his dastardly plan is. If i am giving him the benefit of the doubt, what am i doubting; 1, 2, or 3, above ?

 

If his evil plan is 'not to be bothered about us challenging for honours' then aye, its all fucked as we all need hope but am struggling to get annoyed about that when we all agreed that survival this season would be a decent result.

 

I dont get what everyone thinks his end-game is i guess and thats a genuinely open statement for discussion.

 

Well, yes. Two steps backwards, one step forwards again since he took over ? Will we go one step further forward again and match the on-pitch record of the last regime ? Personally, I don't think so, which I've said for a long time now, people didn't agree with me then, and some are still doing it, but as time goes on it looks more and more that this is going to be the case. Eventually, after a few years of struggle we will go down again when the scouting system fails to find the cut price bargains like Tiotte, Ben Arfa etc and we end up with a complete team of players like Lovenkrands and Perch.

[Guest alex]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

He's a shit owner as manc-mag points out, he no longer gives a shit about the fans its just business. He's fucking stupid, without doubt for the reasons you just point out.

 

My question is, whats his business? Where is he trying to take his investment? I obviously dont know but then i dont even really know what the doomsday scenario is either that is getting put forward.

His greatest crime is settling for less than we can acheive but then thats settling for less than his investment can acheive. If he sells Enrique and Tiote this summer and we fall back to the bottom of the league and out, it makes him an idiot as its his investment that suffers.

 

What i find the hardest to understand is that in the 12 games to go thread, people are happily predicting 50 points. There is a disconnect in logic in all of this.

Not sure he knows tbh. Or rather I would guess it's extremely fluid, depending on how the mood takes him. I think we've performed above expectations already this season like, almost no matter what happens here on in. That's no guarentee were good enough to stay up long term with the set of forwards we've got though. Especially if the next 12-18 months were to see Tiote, Ben Arfa and Enrique follow Carroll out the door. Basically what I'm saying is, don't get carried away with a good first season back up as I think the way he's running the club will see more bother in the future. It's not like we're going to unearth local players and sell them for massive fees very often, so it's not sustainable in that sense. Whether the Tiote and Ben Arfa signings are representative or fortunate is another matter but hopefully are scouting network is getting to somewhere near the level it should be.

[LeazesMag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

 

Obsessed.

 

Fuck off. You're wrong. I know you think you're a smart lad, but you're a thick idiot.

 

 

Read my comments, I'm only commenting on the last bit of Alex's post, the only difference being that - unlike others - I don't clip his post before replying..........

 

You're thick as mince, lad.

 

ah, what a shame you're so thick you have called this owner and the last ones completely wrong and were stupidly taken in by Ashley.

 

Smart aren't you

 

What a wanker.

[LeazesMag 0]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

He's a shit owner as manc-mag points out, he no longer gives a shit about the fans its just business. He's fucking stupid, without doubt for the reasons you just point out.

 

My question is, whats his business? Where is he trying to take his investment? I obviously dont know but then i dont even really know what the doomsday scenario is either that is getting put forward.

His greatest crime is settling for less than we can acheive but then thats settling for less than his investment can acheive. If he sells Enrique and Tiote this summer and we fall back to the bottom of the league and out, it makes him an idiot as its his investment that suffers.

 

What i find the hardest to understand is that in the 12 games to go thread, people are happily predicting 50 points. There is a disconnect in logic in all of this.

Not sure he knows tbh. Or rather I would guess it's extremely fluid, depending on how the mood takes him. I think we've performed above expectations already this season like, almost no matter what happens here on in. That's no guarentee were good enough to stay up long term with the set of forwards we've got though. Especially if the next 12-18 months were to see Tiote, Ben Arfa and Enrique follow Carroll out the door. Basically what I'm saying is, don't get carried away with a good first season back up as I think the way he's running the club will see more bother in the future. It's not like we're going to unearth local players and sell them for massive fees very often, so it's not sustainable in that sense. Whether the Tiote and Ben Arfa signings are representative or fortunate is another matter but hopefully are scouting network is getting to somewhere near the level it should be.

 

Agree with all of that.

 

I'll emphasise "all of that" in case smartlad mancmag decides to become pedantic about it again. Daft tosspot.

Edited February 22, 2011 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

 

Obsessed.

 

Fuck off. You're wrong. I know you think you're a smart lad, but you're a thick idiot.

 

 

Read my comments, I'm only commenting on the last bit of Alex's post, the only difference being that - unlike others - I don't clip his post before replying..........

 

You're thick as mince, lad.

 

ah, what a shame you're so thick you have called this owner and the last ones completely wrong and were stupidly taken in by Ashley.

 

Smart aren't you

 

What a wanker.

 

If you mean I was one of those "taken in" by him "buying Geordies pints in the Bigg Market", I think you'd actually find evidence on here that I was a dissenting voice on that point. The rest of what you said was just noise.

[LeazesMag 0]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

 

Obsessed.

 

Fuck off. You're wrong. I know you think you're a smart lad, but you're a thick idiot.

 

 

Read my comments, I'm only commenting on the last bit of Alex's post, the only difference being that - unlike others - I don't clip his post before replying..........

 

You're thick as mince, lad.

 

ah, what a shame you're so thick you have called this owner and the last ones completely wrong and were stupidly taken in by Ashley.

 

Smart aren't you

 

What a wanker.

 

If you mean I was one of those "taken in" by him "buying Geordies pints in the Bigg Market", I think you'd actually find evidence on here that I was a dissenting voice on that point. The rest of what you said was just noise.

 

Obsessed.

 

How's the Aston Villa "plan" going by the way, which you endorsed when they gave Martin O'Neill a long contract, and had a "plan" which the Halls and Shepherd never had, according to you ? Have they matched them yet ?

 

Consider your reply, then fuck off son.

[manc-mag 1]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

He's a shit owner as manc-mag points out, he no longer gives a shit about the fans its just business. He's fucking stupid, without doubt for the reasons you just point out.

 

My question is, whats his business? Where is he trying to take his investment? I obviously dont know but then i dont even really know what the doomsday scenario is either that is getting put forward.

His greatest crime is settling for less than we can acheive but then thats settling for less than his investment can acheive. If he sells Enrique and Tiote this summer and we fall back to the bottom of the league and out, it makes him an idiot as its his investment that suffers.

 

What i find the hardest to understand is that in the 12 games to go thread, people are happily predicting 50 points. There is a disconnect in logic in all of this.

Not sure he knows tbh. Or rather I would guess it's extremely fluid, depending on how the mood takes him. I think we've performed above expectations already this season like, almost no matter what happens here on in. That's no guarentee were good enough to stay up long term with the set of forwards we've got though. Especially if the next 12-18 months were to see Tiote, Ben Arfa and Enrique follow Carroll out the door. Basically what I'm saying is, don't get carried away with a good first season back up as I think the way he's running the club will see more bother in the future. It's not like we're going to unearth local players and sell them for massive fees very often, so it's not sustainable in that sense. Whether the Tiote and Ben Arfa signings are representative or fortunate is another matter but hopefully are scouting network is getting to somewhere near the level it should be.

 

Agree with all of that.

 

I'll emphasise "all of that" in case smartlad mancmag decides to become pedantic about it again. Daft tosspot.

 

To be honest, I didn't even get what you were on about me supposedly 'clipping' his last post (or words to that effect). Oddball.

[manc-mag 1]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

He`s running the club within its means not within his means. The club will never be in a financial mess with him in charge but he`s never gonna chuck cash at it for fun, he`s nowhere near Roman or Mansoor when it comes to wealth but he could chuck in 15-20 mil for a couple of good players I agree.

 

Put yourself in his shoes tho`, you come to a game and get slated and called a fat cunt, your wife and kids see this?? Would you wanna put money in??

 

when he bought the club, most people thought he was the dogs bollocks just because he wasn't Fat Fred ? Laughable or what. Even more so, when he bought people pints in the Bigg Market and went home thinking how stupid all those Geordies were for being taken in by a blatant PR gimmick.

 

He's done it all himself.

So you would rather Fat Fred had hung onto the club?? Simple yes or no

 

*avoided*

[manc-mag 1]

While I accept the logic I simply can't understand why people are still willing to give Ashley the benefit of the doubt.

Unless we get a billionaire sugar daddy like Chelsea and City then whoever comes in may well have to run the club in the same way or we could get a Ridsdale who would mortgage the club within an inch of oblivion with the hope of champions league. Would you want to take that gamble?? I know Ashley has been a cunt and his appointments of Wise and Dekka have been very poor but we could end up worse off than we are. We are pretty safe this season and playing quite well, we also have 35m to spend in the summer so its not all doom and gloom

Or we could have someone in the middle, which Ashley is more than capable of being, given his wealth. I don't see why it has to be one extreme or the other. Ashley doesn't have to run the club the way he is. It's a personal choice on his part.

 

exactly. Ambition is a choice, but sadly a lot of people had got used to seeing it and thought it would be automatic.

 

Alex's point is spot on fwiw. Sadly your actual desires are not reconcilable with having someone who is 'in the middle' so it's laughable that you quote it. You're basically endorsing the Ridsdale model in other posts ffs.

 

Obsessed.

 

Fuck off. You're wrong. I know you think you're a smart lad, but you're a thick idiot.

 

 

Read my comments, I'm only commenting on the last bit of Alex's post, the only difference being that - unlike others - I don't clip his post before replying..........

 

You're thick as mince, lad.

 

ah, what a shame you're so thick you have called this owner and the last ones completely wrong and were stupidly taken in by Ashley.

 

Smart aren't you

 

What a wanker.

 

If you mean I was one of those "taken in" by him "buying Geordies pints in the Bigg Market", I think you'd actually find evidence on here that I was a dissenting voice on that point. The rest of what you said was just noise.

 

Obsessed.

 

How's the Aston Villa "plan" going by the way, which you endorsed when they gave Martin O'Neill a long contract, and had a "plan" which the Halls and Shepherd never had, according to you ? Have they matched them yet ?

 

Consider your reply, then fuck off son.

 

More noise

[LeazesMag 0]

If he says he's not for sale he's a liar and a puppet if he goes. If he admits it'll be tough keeping him he's asking for bids

 

ah. There was a time when we said someone wasn't for sale and they weren't. In fact, nobody bothered trying to buy our best players because they knew they wouldn't be sold.

 

 

Or because they were under-performing mercenaries?

 

must be nice living in a make believe little world like you do

Best players not for sale? Woodgate was our best defender and he was sold, so was Bellamy and Andy Cole wasnt too shabby either. Every player is for sale if the price is right. You think Man U wanted Ronaldo to go? If a player gets a whiff of more money and a better lifestyle or to play in the champions league then their head is turned and when a club makes a top offer then its bye-bye regardless who the manager/chairman is. The measure of the club is who replaces the sold player so we need to wait and see who comes in the summer.

 

oh fucking hell. Do bugger off man. Footballers are always leaving clubs, everywhere, but the top clubs replace the odd quality player they lose with another of the same calibre in the managers opinion and allow him to continue to attempt to improve the team with the cash from the sales. This is kids stuff. How much longer does this need to be explained ? How many idiots are there in this world ?

Thats what I said, It depends who the replacements are although in your book if we dont get Ronaldo,Tevez and Xavi then we are not ambitious enough. The reality is we are where we are at the moment and if we get players like Tiote or Jose who may have the ambition to play in the champions league or challenge for the title then thats the reality. Football has changed and we have no chance of top 4 even if we spend a fortune. We should aim for a top 6/7 spot and win a cup and play some European football in the Europa league. As long as those that leave are replaced with players who have something to offer and not just shite or so called big names then so be it. Or are you so deluded you think we should be spending 30mil on a player and 100k pw on wages??

 

your first line is bollocks. For starters, if we signed any one quality footballer, would Carroll have left, and would we be talking about the possibility of Enrique and Tiotte leaving ? My guess is both these players would be first in the queue to sign extended contracts.

 

Secondly, no person turned their noses up when we signed the likes of Shearer, Ferdinand, Ginola, Woodgate, Speed, Dyer etc etc bleating on about the club heading towards administration.

 

I agree that if the 35m quid is invested in footballers the manager decides will give us a better team than the one we had with Carroll in it, it should prompt a re-think about Mike Ashley and his ambitions for the club, but it won't.

The waft of 80k per week was enough to tempt Carroll and if you think any signing would have convinced him to stay I would say you are wrong. As for Jose and Tiote, I said if they want to challenge for a title or play champions league, so Man U, Chelsea,City or Arsenal not to mention Spain,Italy etc. If any top clubs come in for ANY of our players then they will go if they want to and its up to Ashley to get a deal thats right for NUFC and to re invest it.

 

I wasnt bleating when we had those players but no one had any idea how fucked the clubs finances were on the back of it all

 

as for your final point, could I borrow your crystal ball please

The Carroll issue and the fact Ashley should've had a look at the books aside, I think Happy Face has shown that Ashley could've spent less than the relegation cost him by handing KK a canny bit of money to spend as he chose. That's what sticks in my throat when you get the lines trotted out about how much of his own money he's spent. The media seem particularly blind to this so it's no wonder fans from NUFC and other clubs don't pick up on it much.

He's a shit owner as manc-mag points out, he no longer gives a shit about the fans its just business. He's fucking stupid, without doubt for the reasons you just point out.

 

My question is, whats his business? Where is he trying to take his investment? I obviously dont know but then i dont even really know what the doomsday scenario is either that is getting put forward.

His greatest crime is settling for less than we can acheive but then thats settling for less than his investment can acheive. If he sells Enrique and Tiote this summer and we fall back to the bottom of the league and out, it makes him an idiot as its his investment that suffers.

 

What i find the hardest to understand is that in the 12 games to go thread, people are happily predicting 50 points. There is a disconnect in logic in all of this.

Not sure he knows tbh. Or rather I would guess it's extremely fluid, depending on how the mood takes him. I think we've performed above expectations already this season like, almost no matter what happens here on in. That's no guarentee were good enough to stay up long term with the set of forwards we've got though. Especially if the next 12-18 months were to see Tiote, Ben Arfa and Enrique follow Carroll out the door. Basically what I'm saying is, don't get carried away with a good first season back up as I think the way he's running the club will see more bother in the future. It's not like we're going to unearth local players and sell them for massive fees very often, so it's not sustainable in that sense. Whether the Tiote and Ben Arfa signings are representative or fortunate is another matter but hopefully are scouting network is getting to somewhere near the level it should be.

 

Agree with all of that.

 

I'll emphasise "all of that" in case smartlad mancmag decides to become pedantic about it again. Daft tosspot.

 

To be honest, I didn't even get what you were on about me supposedly 'clipping' his last post (or words to that effect). Oddball.

 

quite easy smartlad, I was only replying to the last part of his post, which was quite obvious if you actually read it

 

Are those nasty mancs still laughing at your embarrassment ? Poor thing.