Smokers suck

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

the ban was always about staff, I have no idea what else you think it was about

 

 

Bar staff have to put up with smoky conditions? Well there's a shock, I bet they didn't expect that when they took the job. If they don't like it then they should fuck off and get a different job. Though in saying that I am all for no smoking at the bar where practical.

 

can't do that see, discrimination

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

kind of like the whinging miners is it? got emphesema? you should fuck off and get a different job son

 

So they are going to ban mining now are they?

 

(or perhaps just have already taken the needed precautions to avoid it)

 

 

pretty sure they banned the idea that the miners should just put up with it because it comes with the job, yes

[ewerk 32468]

can't do that see, discrimination

 

What?

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

Right so you're telling me that a bar person couldn't just as easily get a job in Tesco or Asda or as a waiter? There are plenty of other alternative jobs out, these people choose to work in bars knowing that there is a smoky atmosphere.

 

they don't choose to work in a pub because it's smoky, they do it in spite of that

 

Exactly my point, they realise the risks yet still work there. Fuck me if they choose not to protect themselves from the risks then why should the government come in and do it for them?

Edited June 30, 2007 by ewerk

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

 

 

I've no idea what you honestly think I've said tbh

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

 

 

once again, what the fuck are you on about?

[Fop 1]

 

the ban was always about staff, I have no idea what else you think it was about

 

 

Bar staff have to put up with smoky conditions? Well there's a shock, I bet they didn't expect that when they took the job. If they don't like it then they should fuck off and get a different job. Though in saying that I am all for no smoking at the bar where practical.

 

can't do that see, discrimination

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

kind of like the whinging miners is it? got emphesema? you should fuck off and get a different job son

 

So they are going to ban mining now are they?

 

(or perhaps just have already taken the needed precautions to avoid it)

 

 

pretty sure they banned the idea that the miners should just put up with it because it comes with the job, yes

 

Which is NOT the same thing at all is it?

 

Much like most of what you seem to say in fact.

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

the ban was always about staff, I have no idea what else you think it was about

 

 

Bar staff have to put up with smoky conditions? Well there's a shock, I bet they didn't expect that when they took the job. If they don't like it then they should fuck off and get a different job. Though in saying that I am all for no smoking at the bar where practical.

 

can't do that see, discrimination

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

kind of like the whinging miners is it? got emphesema? you should fuck off and get a different job son

 

So they are going to ban mining now are they?

 

(or perhaps just have already taken the needed precautions to avoid it)

 

 

pretty sure they banned the idea that the miners should just put up with it because it comes with the job, yes

 

Which is NOT the same thing at all is it?

 

Much like most of what you seem to say in fact.

 

how is it not the same?

 

get down the mine and accept the risk. get behind the bar and accept the risk. what exactly is the difference?

[Fop 1]

 

 

 

I've no idea what you honestly think I've said tbh

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

 

 

once again, what the fuck are you on about?

 

The scare stories and lies tactics of the smoking ban and anti-smoking lobby regarding passive smoke (I would have though you've have realised this by now).

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

 

 

I've no idea what you honestly think I've said tbh

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

 

 

once again, what the fuck are you on about?

 

The scare stories and lies tactics of the smoking ban and anti-smoking lobby regarding passive smoke (I would have though you've have realised this by now).

 

what the fuck are you on about regarding "Neither have you it seems."

[Fop 1]

 

the ban was always about staff, I have no idea what else you think it was about

 

 

Bar staff have to put up with smoky conditions? Well there's a shock, I bet they didn't expect that when they took the job. If they don't like it then they should fuck off and get a different job. Though in saying that I am all for no smoking at the bar where practical.

 

can't do that see, discrimination

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

kind of like the whinging miners is it? got emphesema? you should fuck off and get a different job son

 

So they are going to ban mining now are they?

 

(or perhaps just have already taken the needed precautions to avoid it)

 

 

pretty sure they banned the idea that the miners should just put up with it because it comes with the job, yes

 

Which is NOT the same thing at all is it?

 

Much like most of what you seem to say in fact.

 

how is it not the same?

 

Because one is removing a negative effect for specific workers by protective measures, the other is a blanket ban that really has little to do with it.

 

 

get down the mine and accept the risk. get behind the bar and accept the risk. what exactly is the difference?

 

Again that's not the same thing as what we are (or at least I am) talking about and again there are many better ways to remove such a risk than a blanket ban, not that that is what the ban is really about however. It's just the only 3rd party justification that vaguely holds water (unless you install decent air con).

[Fop 1]

 

 

 

I've no idea what you honestly think I've said tbh

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

 

 

once again, what the fuck are you on about?

 

The scare stories and lies tactics of the smoking ban and anti-smoking lobby regarding passive smoke (I would have though you've have realised this by now).

 

what the fuck are you on about regarding "Neither have you it seems."

 

That you seem to have little the fuck (just thought I'd better add that to fit in) idea about what you've said (although I suspect no one does ).

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

the ban was always about staff, I have no idea what else you think it was about

 

 

Bar staff have to put up with smoky conditions? Well there's a shock, I bet they didn't expect that when they took the job. If they don't like it then they should fuck off and get a different job. Though in saying that I am all for no smoking at the bar where practical.

 

can't do that see, discrimination

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

kind of like the whinging miners is it? got emphesema? you should fuck off and get a different job son

 

So they are going to ban mining now are they?

 

(or perhaps just have already taken the needed precautions to avoid it)

 

 

pretty sure they banned the idea that the miners should just put up with it because it comes with the job, yes

 

Which is NOT the same thing at all is it?

 

Much like most of what you seem to say in fact.

 

how is it not the same?

 

Because one is removing a negative effect for specific workers by protective measures, the other is a blanket ban that really has little to do with it.

 

 

get down the mine and accept the risk. get behind the bar and accept the risk. what exactly is the difference?

 

Again that's not the same thing as what we are (or at least I am) talking about and again there are many better ways to remove such a risk than a blanket ban, not that that is what the ban is really about however. It's just the only 3rd party justification that vaguely holds water (unless you install decent air con).

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already

 

as I've already said, ventilation was dismissed by all parties, even punters. Have you ever been in one of those pubs that actually tried to install an air curtain? completely shit and unpopular with everyone

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

 

 

I've no idea what you honestly think I've said tbh

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

 

 

once again, what the fuck are you on about?

 

The scare stories and lies tactics of the smoking ban and anti-smoking lobby regarding passive smoke (I would have though you've have realised this by now).

 

what the fuck are you on about regarding "Neither have you it seems."

 

That you seem to have little the fuck (just thought I'd better add that to fit in) idea about what you've said (although I suspect no one does ).

 

how is that then? do you actually have an explanation or just more generalisms?

[ewerk 32468]

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already

 

 

You keep saying this yet haven't answered my earlier point as to why the government should protect these people when they've chosen to take the job with the full knowledge of how it could impact on their health.

[peasepud 59]

[Fop 1]

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already.

 

Ok ignoring the fact that this is patent rubbish and that the whole thing was pushed on the premise of passive smoking.

 

Assuming it was JUST to do with bar staff and they couldn't fit ventilation to negate it (they could mind).

 

Why not just ban it from non-smoking parts, but allow sealed indoor smoking areas with mandatory high ventilation?

 

 

 

 

as I've already said, ventilation was dismissed by all parties, even punters. Have you ever been in one of those pubs that actually tried to install an air curtain? completely shit and unpopular with everyone

 

Actually an air curtain would be fairly irrelevant with enough through ventilation.

 

But hell they could have made them wear gas masks really, like where hard hats for going up a 1 m ladder.

 

Although again this is by the by to what I'm talking about.

[Fop 1]

 

 

 

I've no idea what you honestly think I've said tbh

 

Neither have you it seems.

 

 

 

once again, what the fuck are you on about?

 

The scare stories and lies tactics of the smoking ban and anti-smoking lobby regarding passive smoke (I would have though you've have realised this by now).

 

what the fuck are you on about regarding "Neither have you it seems."

 

That you seem to have little the fuck (just thought I'd better add that to fit in) idea about what you've said (although I suspect no one does ).

 

how is that then? do you actually have an explanation or just more generalisms?

 

An explanation about you not knowing what you're saying? Well I could postulate a few hypotheses (and then maybe have a scare tactic and lies campaign to support it!).

[Fop 1]

 

 

Just look what passive smoking did to him.

[Park Life 71]

Brainwashed?

 

I love the way that these discussions always go, the two people who have actually been brainwashed by the "conspiracy brigade" are the ones that then accuse the rest of it. It doesnt take a genius or a doctor to see that putting carcinogenic chemicals into an enclosed space is not good for anyone in that room.

 

To see the effects go into any pub and look at the walls. If it can do that to paintwork then I dread to imagine lungs. I dont ever want to see a picture of my lungs seeing as Im an ex smoker, if however I had never smoked one in my life and then found they were fucked I wouldnt be very chuffed to say the least.

 

That's almost a rant....Must try harder.

 

If you're worried about carcinogens I suggest you stop living. You're surronded by them unless you live in Hawai.

 

Run Fop!! We've run into a clique of interior decorators, clothes horses and beauticians.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Parky

[Park Life 71]

 

the ban was always about staff, I have no idea what else you think it was about

 

 

Bar staff have to put up with smoky conditions? Well there's a shock, I bet they didn't expect that when they took the job. If they don't like it then they should fuck off and get a different job. Though in saying that I am all for no smoking at the bar where practical.

 

can't do that see, discrimination

 

I think you'd be hard pushed to find someone who would willingly work in a smoky environment over an alternative job

 

kind of like the whinging miners is it? got emphesema? you should fuck off and get a different job son

 

So they are going to ban mining now are they?

 

(or perhaps just have already taken the needed precautions to avoid it)

 

 

pretty sure they banned the idea that the miners should just put up with it because it comes with the job, yes

 

Which is NOT the same thing at all is it?

 

Much like most of what you seem to say in fact.

 

how is it not the same?

 

Because one is removing a negative effect for specific workers by protective measures, the other is a blanket ban that really has little to do with it.

 

 

get down the mine and accept the risk. get behind the bar and accept the risk. what exactly is the difference?

 

Again that's not the same thing as what we are (or at least I am) talking about and again there are many better ways to remove such a risk than a blanket ban, not that that is what the ban is really about however. It's just the only 3rd party justification that vaguely holds water (unless you install decent air con).

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already

 

as I've already said, ventilation was dismissed by all parties, even punters. Have you ever been in one of those pubs that actually tried to install an air curtain? completely shit and unpopular with everyone

 

 

It's about workers....Hilarious.

[rikko 20]

Just to raise a different comparison, the maximum dose of radiation that the HSE deems acceptable for the general public to exposed to is 20uSv per year. This level increases the risk of cancer by 0.00012% (and is 135 times smaller then the UK average background radiation level).

 

I don't have any figures for second hand smoke but I'd expect that it increases the risk of cancer by more then that amount.

[Park Life 71]

Just to raise a different comparison, the maximum dose of radiation that the HSE deems acceptable for the general public to exposed to is 20uSv per year. This level increases the risk of cancer by 0.00012% (and is 135 times smaller then the UK average background radiation level).

 

I don't have any figures for second hand smoke but I'd expect that it increases the risk of cancer by more then that amount.

 

Make it simple. What is the increased rate of cancer for a smoker as against a non-smoker?

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already

 

 

You keep saying this yet haven't answered my earlier point as to why the government should protect these people when they've chosen to take the job with the full knowledge of how it could impact on their health.

 

because there is now a general rule in this country that no one should have to accept reducable risks to gain employment

[Fop 1]

Just to raise a different comparison, the maximum dose of radiation that the HSE deems acceptable for the general public to exposed to is 20uSv per year. This level increases the risk of cancer by 0.00012% (and is 135 times smaller then the UK average background radiation level).

 

I don't have any figures for second hand smoke but I'd expect that it increases the risk of cancer by more then that amount.

 

 

Personally I like it where the council has surveyed for a gas risk (either explosive, poisioness or even in some cases radiation gas risks - the radioactive gas kills at least 2500 people a year from lung cancer in the UK - and on the whole much more likely and risky than 2ndry smoke) and then refuses to tell anyone living there because (not surprisingly) no one would want to live there and house prices in that area would crash.

[Bazooka_From_Viduka 0]

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already.

 

Ok ignoring the fact that this is patent rubbish and that the whole thing was pushed on the premise of passive smoking.

 

Assuming it was JUST to do with bar staff and they couldn't fit ventilation to negate it (they could mind).

 

Why not just ban it from non-smoking parts, but allow sealed indoor smoking areas with mandatory high ventilation?

 

 

 

 

as I've already said, ventilation was dismissed by all parties, even punters. Have you ever been in one of those pubs that actually tried to install an air curtain? completely shit and unpopular with everyone

 

Actually an air curtain would be fairly irrelevant with enough through ventilation.

 

But hell they could have made them wear gas masks really, like where hard hats for going up a 1 m ladder.

 

Although again this is by the by to what I'm talking about.

 

 

it was about passive smoking of workers, they are the same thing.

 

smoking rooms were rejected on the basis they again were unworkable, and workers would still have to enter these rooms

 

and air curtains were tried as an alternative to impractical air conditioning systems

[ewerk 32468]

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already

 

 

You keep saying this yet haven't answered my earlier point as to why the government should protect these people when they've chosen to take the job with the full knowledge of how it could impact on their health.

 

because there is now a general rule in this country that no one should have to accept reducable risks to gain employment

 

Every risk is essentially reducible. This is the sort of shit that has meant firemen can't go up ladders over a certain height. If you don't want the risk of dying in a burning building then don't join the fire brigade, if you don't fancy being shot at then don't join the army and if you don't want to accept the increased risk of smoke related problems then don't work in a bar. It's pretty fucking simple.

[Fop 1]

 

the ban was always about workers, really can't see how you don't know that. It only came down to pub workers in the end because every other workplace has had the common sense to ban it already

 

 

You keep saying this yet haven't answered my earlier point as to why the government should protect these people when they've chosen to take the job with the full knowledge of how it could impact on their health.

 

because there is now a general rule in this country that no one should have to accept reducable risks to gain employment

 

Even the H&S executive wouldn't have suggested a full smoking ban to reduce such risks.

 

It's like saying the only way to cut car deaths is to ban cars (or as you mentioned ban mining to save miners), it would certainly work, but that isn't really the point.