LeazesMag 0 Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 (edited) From a playing point of view, which IMO is all that matters anyway, Bellamy Owen and Shearer should all be at the club. From the view of those who now say Bellamy is/was a disruptive influence, despite all the evidence that it is the manager who is the disruptive everywhere he goes not Bellamy, did you say the club was better off without Bellamy when Bobby Robson was manager, and Bellamy was playing so well for the club ? If not, you have absolutely no case and no point, the only thing you are all doing is gullibly feeding the clubs propaganda machine and/or believing Souness' spin and lies. 27646[/snapback] Hang on, so if I form an opinion about Bellamy's effect on the other players that makes me gullible? That's the only option? Why don't we stick to the facts of the argument and keep from insulting each other. no it isn't, and I didn't intend to insult you either. I'm only saying that he wasn't a "disruptive influnce" before when he was a massive influence in qualifying for the champions league. If he was, why didn't you people so at the time ? It's only because Souness says he is a "disruptive influence" that yourself and others are now saying this. Bobby Robson didn't consider him a "disruptive influence", neither did his earlier managers at his other clubs, so why do you believe Souness ? Souness is the person who has trouble attached to his name wherever he goes too, not Bellamy. As you say, stick to the facts. Robson has in his book a habit of toning down to the extreme any negative truths that could be used against him in an argument, that surprised and upset me, I still thank him for what he did for us but he has gone down in my estimation. He states that Bellamy was a horrible personality, speaking out of turn to other players, saying things he shouldn't have said. You won't get much argument out of me on Souness' faults, I think the man's a pretty fucked up individual. But leaving him aside for a minute there was a problem at our club before he arrived. I want to know what that was and I'm still searching for answers, one of the reasons I read Bobby's book. The players were not playing for him towards the end. Aye, they were not, but they were playing a lot more than they were for Souness. Sticking to facts, if they weren't playing for Bobby Robson, yet we still got to 5th in the league, it says even less for Souness' managerial "skills". What if there was a serious divide in the dressing room, what if there was one side taking the mick out of Robson behind his back, because I reckon he was easy pickings, and another side against this kind of behavior. If removing one player could clear up that situation it would be worthwhile. maybe that is right, and it is pretty bad news too. However, a manager can come into a club and if he is good he will put an end to this if he commands respect from his players. Souness isn't able to command respect from players, that is why he peddles the ones who stand up to him , or see through him. This is my point about Bellamy, which I've made from day 1, Souness only sells players on because he can't handle them, a crap manager. A pygmy. The same as others like Trevor FRancis, and Howard Wilkinson, who both got rid of Cantona then he ended up at manu, they are losers and Souness is the same as them because he behaves like they do. Move them on. Can't handle them, can't be bothered to handle them despite being paid a few million quid for the job. If Trevor Francis had started his managerial career with Rangers and won the crappy Scottish league he would have carried the same "reputation" right through his managerial career, just like Souness. This is the calibre of manager Souness is. The only thing he is good at is covering up his incompetence by talking a good game. Souness still thinks he did the right thing moving Andy Cole on from Blackburn, the same player who scored goals galore for Keegan, Ferguson and is still playing at a top premiership club and scoring goals, he's so stupid. It's a results business. If we don't match the finish we had under Bellamy and Robert then he has failed and these changes were wrong. End of. You can't argue with results. If he matches them then it's still failure because he's spent a fortune just to equal the position we were in when he arrived. It's Champions League, a trophy, or both, or he's deservedly out. I agree Souness and his cronies did a hatchet job on Bellamy, a bloody good one by the looks of things. But what if it was justifiable to remove Bellamy, doesn't make Souness right but we could still be better off without Bellamy at the club. I don't see why it has to be so black & white - either you're on Bellamy's side or Souness' side. Maybe they're both shites and we're better off without them both? About on pitch/off pitch. It's all well to say all that matters is on the pitch but I can't agree. If we attract a better class of player next season because of Owen that has an impact, if we make more sales, increase our market internationally, that allows us to buy better players and they play better where it counts, on the pitch. 27687[/snapback] I just don't think selling your best players is what you should do, at least for clubs like us. Ever. Apart from if you have a footballing reason ie Keegan and Cole, or family/personal reasons. It's up to the manager to manage them, if the player is doing his stuff on the pitch thats what you want, and a winning team is a happy team. Every manager who has been successful has had to handle players he doesn't want to, it's his job. Brian Clough always said Kenny Burns was a pain in the arse, and Larry Lloyd had his moments, but he didn't move them on, and Burns' whole career changed when he signed for Brian Clough. Whats good enough for people like him is surely good enough for a knacker like Souness. Edited September 3, 2005 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonraider 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 (edited) I read all this with interest, personally i dont like Souness, i dont rate him and i think he has a real problem with his own anger and is a control freak. Thats not really the point though, all i seem to remember when i think of Bellars is how when the rest of the team were playing absolute shite with no spirit and commitment......he wanted to play, he worked his socks off for us and plainly loved his club....i wish he was here. I would take a bet he wont give mark hughes any "trouble" because Hughes is a hard but fair decent type of man who will understand and bring out the best in Bellamy. Im gutted we lost him. Edited September 4, 2005 by Toonraider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43842 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Let's see how many games Bellamy plays this season before we get too upset about having got rid of him. One and counting so far...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43842 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 As for Robert, relegation beckons...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonraider 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Let's see how many games Bellamy plays this season before we get too upset about having got rid of him. One and counting so far...... 27879[/snapback] yeah i suppose you're right Gemmill, but even that thought doesnt really make me feel any happier about how the whole affair was managed or should i say mis-managed? I know, i know! its in the past and no good thinking about it but, 'sigh' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Let's see how many games Bellamy plays this season before we get too upset about having got rid of him. One and counting so far...... 27879[/snapback] At the same time we should make sure that we will see Owen as often as possible in a Toon shirt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43842 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Let's see how many games Bellamy plays this season before we get too upset about having got rid of him. One and counting so far...... 27879[/snapback] At the same time we should make sure that we will see Owen as often as possible in a Toon shirt... 27886[/snapback] I thought that went without saying, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Let's see how many games Bellamy plays this season before we get too upset about having got rid of him. One and counting so far...... 27879[/snapback] At the same time we should make sure that we will see Owen as often as possible in a Toon shirt... 27886[/snapback] I thought that went without saying, tbh. 27888[/snapback] Of course, as Newcastle United doesn't have a history in turning good players into crocks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 If we still had Bellamy we wouldn't have Owen. Owen in the team, or Bellamy in the team and £11m in the bank? Tricky one it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 If we still had Bellamy we wouldn't have Owen. Owen in the team, or Bellamy in the team and £11m in the bank? Tricky one it isn't. 27909[/snapback] why not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 If we still had Bellamy we wouldn't have Owen. Owen in the team, or Bellamy in the team and £11m in the bank? Tricky one it isn't. 27909[/snapback] why not ? 27911[/snapback] Realistic common sense. Obviously I can't say for 100% certain that it wouldn't, but being realistic about it, the only reason we've bought Owen now is the fact that we needed another striker after Bellamy was sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Maybe, maybe not. Realistically, a player of the calibre of Owen is the player to ultimately replace Shearer, I think it was always likely we would have stumped up this sort of fee for someone like him. Have you forgotten a year ago when we tried to get Rooney ? A lot of us scoffed at the thought of us getting the fee, now we know the club would have possibly done it. He would have replaced Shearer long term same as Owen will now. In a years time though, we will now have to find a new partner for him, because of Souness getting shot of Bellamy. More megabucks that shouldn't have been necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Don't you think that Luque might be a partner for Owen? It'll be easier to find a left winger than it will an available striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Don't you think that Luque might be a partner for Owen? It'll be easier to find a left winger than it will an available striker. 27929[/snapback] could be I suppose, he hogged the touchline for periods last week. Not a bad thing if he can play both positions. In fact now we have Solano back, I would say it's more likely he will play more through the middle sometimes, at the end of the day you can't have enough good players if he does well, especially left footers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6942 Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 it makes me laugh how all the press is labelling us mad for spending 16mil on owen. a proven goalscorer, one of englands best ever strikers, in his prime. yet essien to chelsea for 24mil goes unmentioned. who had even heard of him 3 months ago? the fact that their first bid was 10mil speaks volumes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Chelsea fans were laughing at US as well for wasting money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 it makes me laugh how all the press is labelling us mad for spending 16mil on owen. a proven goalscorer, one of englands best ever strikers, in his prime. yet essien to chelsea for 24mil goes unmentioned. who had even heard of him 3 months ago? the fact that their first bid was 10mil speaks volumes! 27948[/snapback] I agree. Owen is footballing gold. You can't put a value on what that brings to the club in revenue and profile. Essien, well, it's Chelsea innit!? Nobody there cares what they spend so it doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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