Niall Quinn Article

[Shearergol 0]

We forget that he is only 25, that he was a global icon as a teenager. The Tyneside goldfish bowl will be nothing new to him - and his attitude will not be Patrick Kluivert's

Honestly, Niall Quinn and The Guardian should fuck off

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Getting rid of Kluivert and signing Owen in the same transfer window - bet you're gutted!

[GHoeberX 0]

We forget that he is only 25, that he was a global icon as a teenager. The Tyneside goldfish bowl will be nothing new to him - and his attitude will not be Patrick Kluivert's

Honestly, Niall Quinn and The Guardian should fuck off

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Getting rid of Kluivert and signing Owen in the same transfer window - bet you're gutted!

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Not at all. And I don't think Kluivert is gutted either that he left the current #19 of the Premierleague. But I don't like it when Quinn writes crap about Kluivert's attitude, like he knows anything about it anyway.

[sammynb 3508]

Honestly, Niall Quinn and The Guardian should fuck off down to Gregg's and join Paddy for a pie or three.

 

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[sammynb 3508]

My two pence worth, minor threat and the straight edge movement was just one more moment in the commercial exploitation of youth through music.

Growing up in that whole 80 US post punk, hardcore punk period it was obvious to any thinking, observing individual that it was just another label for people to hang their existance upon.

I shared a house with a guy around that time who was the biggest minor threat fan and forgetting the fact that generally the music was shite, he was the biggest susbtance abuser that I knew.

 

ChocChip, you asked about Rollins and whether he is straight edge, no he wasn't but he has evolved into something very similar.

Black Flag, Chaotic Dischord, Exploited, crass, the decendants (also ALL as they became) were all just US hardcore bands from the 80s but as Henry has gotten older he has moved to a "straight edge" philosophy. Interestingly enough more so since his friend (and alleged but often denied male partner/lover) was murdered for which he was questioned.

ChocChip as others have said there is no need to look for an ideology in music, listen to what you enjoy, what inspires you. If you like punk there is lots out there to find, go to amazon and check out what others are recommending (search for a band you like, ie. Bad Brains and then check out the listmania! on the right hand side of the page) but don't get sucked into a genre.

Just remember Stryper (look them up if you don't know who they were) wanted the world to believe they were christian rock and in the end they were just a bunch of satanists (so don't believe the hype!)

[luckypierre 0]

I theres anything less desering than being tagged 'commercial' its minor threat and hardcore. Theres no fking money in it for a start. Does anyone else limit the price of their records and shows like Ian Mackaye?

 

For those that followed I cant see it being anything but positive for them, but the essence of it and hardcore was kids making music, putting on shows and singing about stuff they believed in, it possibly the least commercial music there is.

 

Rollins hasnt evolved into anything. He's always had those same personal beliefs. He doesnt put poison into his body. So he doesnt do drugs or drink, doesnt make him straight edge or even part of the scene, he never has been. Its just a sub genre of hardcore, the only difference being the message. You dont have to adhere to some doctrine to like the music, if you like hardcore you'll like straight edge theres no differnece

[sammynb 3508]

I theres anything less desering than being tagged 'commercial' its minor threat and hardcore. Theres no fking money in it for a start. Does anyone else limit the price of their records and shows like Ian Mackaye?

 

For those that followed I cant see it being anything but positive for them, but the essence of it and hardcore was kids making music, putting on shows and singing about stuff they believed in, it possibly the least commercial music there is.

 

Rollins hasnt evolved into anything. He's always had those same personal beliefs. He doesnt put poison into his body. So he doesnt do drugs or drink, doesnt make him straight edge or even part of the scene, he never has been. Its just a sub genre of hardcore, the only difference being the message. You dont have to adhere to some doctrine to like the music, if you like hardcore you'll like straight edge theres no differnece

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Of course it was a commercialisation. Just because it isn't on a global scale doesn't mean it isn't commercialised.

As for there is no fucking money in it, live shows generate income, independant releases generate income, don't be niave and believe they weren't trying to make money and more so those that followed in their footsteps.

Even bands like the Hard Ons who refused to change their name when asked by a mahjr US record label so they could be released in the states played music to make money, just because they didn't want to sell millions of copies of their releases, at the expense of changing their name, doesn't mean they didn't want to make a living.

Lastly Rollin, yes you are right he has always maintained the fact he "doesn't" ingest "poison" NOW but he also admits to having done so at certain points in his life, along with an often spoken about enjoyment of casual sex.

 

In many ways it is just like religion, believe what you want but keep it to yourself and don't judge others on your beliefs.

[luckypierre 0]

I dont judge anyone.

 

Im not straight edge either, never have been.

 

hardcore is hardly commercial, its the least commercial music possibly out there. Not on a global scale, its not on any scale. I dont believe any of the bands set out to make money, theres thousands of things to do that would get you more if that was your aim. 99.99% of the big hardcore bands at their height probably played shows to at the most a couple of hundred people. Add all that money up and deduct the costs and split it between two bands of five doesnt leave you with much each. How much does it cost to record a single and press a couple of hundred copies? How much do you make on that and split it between 5 again not much. Its not something you'd do to make money. Ive been to gigs with about 20 other people watching three bands. How much money did those kids make out of that? They'd make more working at McDonalds. So why did they do it?

 

Ian Mackaye owns his own record label, Dischord. He was in Minor threat and now Fugazi. Fugazi could be huge but he doesnt play the game. They rarley do interviews, dont make videos etc. All dischord releases have on the cover "do not pay more than $9.99 for this release", he limits the size of venues that they play and the price of the tickets. Now sure he makes money, he's got to eat , clothe himself etc he cant do it for free, but if he wanted he could earn a lot more, if that was his aim why doesnt he? If theres one person making music who's least deserving of being called commercial its him, its really funny you think so. Like you said The Hard Ons wanted to make a living but I bet they just started out because they enjoyed making music and being in a band. Making a living is one thing but its hardly commercial exploitation. The example of the Hard ons is a stange one too. They're one of those jokey hardcore bands like the decendants to me which again is almost a sub genre. The straight edge bands ( Minor Threat was never a straight edge band by the way, the scene didnt exist at the time) were more passionate, focused on what they were doing, what they were trying to put across, they had a purpose and a message. Agree with it or not, I didnt, but thats they way it was and is, and like I said before a lot of them grew out of it and started doing the stuff they preached against. Doesnt change the fact they did all of it for a reason and that reason wasnt cash.

 

Kids dont start hardcore bands to be famous, or make money...Its just not going to happen. For the lucky (?) ones it may come but its highly unlikely. Straight edge is even more niche. A smaller, more stubborn following and even less chance to make money. Your tag of commercial exploitation just doesnt stand up.

Edited September 13, 2005 by luckypierre

[sammynb 3508]

I dont judge anyone.

 

Im not straight edge either, never have been. 

 

hardcore is hardly commercial, its the least commercial music possibly out there. Not on a global scale, its not on any scale. I dont believe any of the bands set out to make money, theres thousands of things to do that would get you more if that was your aim. 99.99% of the big hardcore bands at their height probably played shows to at the most a couple of hundred people. Add all that money up and deduct the costs and split it between two bands of five doesnt leave you with much each. How much does it cost to record a single and press a couple of hundred copies? How much do you make on that and split it between 5  again not much. Its not something you'd do to make money.  Ive been to gigs with about 20 other people watching three bands. How much money did those kids make out of that? They'd make more working at McDonalds. So why did they do it?

 

Ian Mackaye owns his own record label, Dischord. He was in Minor threat and now Fugazi. Fugazi could be huge but  he doesnt play the game. They rarley do interviews, dont make videos etc. All dischord releases have on the cover "do not pay more than $9.99 for this release", he limits the size of venues that they play and the price of the tickets. Now sure he makes money, he's got to eat , clothe himself etc he cant do it for free, but if he wanted he could earn a lot more, if that was his aim why doesnt he? If theres one person making music who's least deserving of being called commercial its him, its really funny you think so. Like you said The Hard Ons wanted to make a living but I bet they just started out because they enjoyed making music and being in a band. Making a living is one thing but its hardly commercial exploitation.

 

Kids dont start hardcore bands to be famous, or make money...Its just not going to happen. For the lucky (?) ones it may come but its highly unlikely. Straight edge is even more niche, a smaller following and even less chance to make money. Your tag of commercial exploitation just doesnt stand up.

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Not it's not that it doesn't stand up, you disagree because it doesn't match your opinion, that's life.

By the way, I've played those gigs where you earn $200 as a headline but it costs you $250 to play it and guess what I was never going to pay the rent that way so I do something else now.

Do you honestly think Henry Rollins doesn't release book after book after cd after cd to make a living?

He may put something back by giving other bands a break and releasing their stuff on his label but it is still about money and if those he gives a hand to don't cut it, they're gone just like any other commercial interest.

As for the kids don't start hardcore bands to be famous, bullshit - it is just a measure of fame. Playing in a band is about being famous, whether it be locally, nationally or internationally, whether you want ot be known by your local crowd or have a better opportunity to fuck that girl you like, whatever it is about fame of some sort! And from there things evolve, don't they.

For a person that's not "straight edge" you're fighting a good fight.

[luckypierre 0]

Rollins isnt a good example though. He's hardly indicative of what hardcore was about. He started playing more metal music got some success, marketed himself well and then even started to appear in films. Compare him to Mackaye, who started around the same time. I think they are good friends too.

 

The term hardcore covers a fairly broad range even if they music itslef might sound similar. You cant compare the ethos of Mackaye to those of Green Day for example. Now I'd agree Green Day probably did set out to do all those things you mentioned but to me Ian Mackaye is an example of what hardcore was about not Rollins and not Green Day. Mackaye believes in what he is doing and doesnt do it to make money. Straight edge is even more driven and close minded. Kids grow up and change and do things differently and dont believe in the same things they do when they are 15 or 16. It doesnt change that when they set out the last thing on their mind was to make money or be famous or fuck the girl. Its almost unique in that its a musical style with a purpose, with a singular constant message. I dont agree with it but I enjoyed the music because of it. I suppose you could argue that for a lot of them its just joining the club, sing the songs have the X on your hand etc.. I'd agree with that but never to be famous or to make cash.

Edited September 13, 2005 by luckypierre

[sammynb 3508]

And where do you sit on Jello Biafra?

See to me he's as good as any example you can offer up as a true hardcore icon/rolemodel and yet he has always fought to argue the terms and genre he is labelled with.

[Guest alex]

And where do you sit on Jello Biafra?

See to me he's as good as any example you can offer up as a true hardcore icon/rolemodel and yet he has always fought to argue the terms and genre he is labelled with.

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His lap?

[sammynb 3508]

I suppose you could argue that for a lot of them its just joining the club, sing the songs have the X on your hand etc.. I'd agree with that but never to be famous or to make cash.

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But that is a form of fame, it is just a smaller more localised version.

[sammynb 3508]

And where do you sit on Jello Biafra?

See to me he's as good as any example you can offer up as a true hardcore icon/rolemodel and yet he has always fought to argue the terms and genre he is labelled with.

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His lap?

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I thought Meenzer was the gay one, not you alex?

[Guest alex]

And where do you sit on Jello Biafra?

See to me he's as good as any example you can offer up as a true hardcore icon/rolemodel and yet he has always fought to argue the terms and genre he is labelled with.

32006[/snapback]

His lap?

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I thought Meenzer was the gay one, not you alex?

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I'm straight, just not straight edged

[luckypierre 0]

And where do you sit on Jello Biafra?

See to me he's as good as any example you can offer up as a true hardcore icon/rolemodel and yet he has always fought to argue the terms and genre he is labelled with.

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I'd agree with you.

 

Ive been listening to a lot of his spoken word stuff lately. A lot of it was done around the time of the first Bush and its scary how relevant a lot of it is.

[sammynb 3508]

Glad we agree on something.

Enjoy I'm off for the evening.

[ChocChip 0]

A friend played me some Minor Threat. I read the lyrics first while he was playing some other stuff i didn't like. I thought it was poetry man, fantastic. When we put the record on, i didn't like it so much. Didn't think the vocal delivery was extraordinary. When i listen to Rollins (fast becoming my hero now i'm reading some of his books) the power of him screaming at you just sets you alight. Mackay didn't do that to me but when i read what he wrote i thought he was probably a big influence on Rollins, am i right? I just photocopied the record sleeve so i could have a copy of the lyrics (Minor Threat).

This guy also played me some Black Flag but with a singer called Dez Cadena, thought he sounded better than Rollins doing the Black Flag stuff but what Rollins does on End of Silence, Weight & Come in & Burn tears a hole in my head. Heard some stuff he did after he dropped that band, it was crap imo.

Apparently Dez Cadena was fronting The Misfits recently, i tried to see them in London but couldn't get in.

I don't understand how someone could 'adopt an ideaology' like Straightedge. If you see strong similarities to how you live your life already then the music and the message is gonna resonate strongly with you and naturally you'll find like minded people. As i said before. i come from a strict religeous family, alot of the behavioural habits/restrictions are similar but i'm not sure what the end goal of the Straightedge movement is. For Christians it's obvious but it must hard to maintain a discipline from temptations that all your peers indulge if you have no logical conclusion to your actions. As for me, i'm happy (mostly) with my lifestyle but i'm not sure how i feel about the christian faith now. However, my behaviour is habitual so i don't feel so comfortable moving away from it but it would be interesting to listen/understand someone elses view on life whose lifestyle parrallel's mine.

I supposes my closing question is: What is the desired outcome of a Straightedge philosophy?

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

why is their so much controversy on here about straight edge? its a life style choice. celibacy, veganism, tee totalism, personal choices, no one elses business, so why should this be?

 

as for it being commercial exploitation!? about 3 people out of the hundreds on here had heard of it. hardly commercial!?

[Guest alex]

why is their so much controversy on here about straight edge? its a life style choice. celibacy, veganism, tee totalism, personal choices, no one elses business, so why should this be?

 

as for it being commercial exploitation!? about 3 people out of the hundreds on here had heard of it. hardly commercial!? 

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It's not that controversial, about 3 people out of the hundreds on here give a fuck about it

[ChocChip 0]

why is their so much controversy on here about straight edge? its a life style choice. celibacy, veganism, tee totalism, personal choices, no one elses business, so why should this be?

 

as for it being commercial exploitation!? about 3 people out of the hundreds on here had heard of it. hardly commercial!? 

32036[/snapback]

It's not that controversial, about 3 people out of the hundreds on here give a fuck about it

32037[/snapback]

 

I suppose listening to Bjork is a lifestyle choice, however extreme

[Guest alex]

why is their so much controversy on here about straight edge? its a life style choice. celibacy, veganism, tee totalism, personal choices, no one elses business, so why should this be?

 

as for it being commercial exploitation!? about 3 people out of the hundreds on here had heard of it. hardly commercial!? 

32036[/snapback]

It's not that controversial, about 3 people out of the hundreds on here give a fuck about it

32037[/snapback]

 

I suppose listening to Bjork is a lifestyle choice, however extreme

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More of a choice of what music you listen to I'd say. It's not some sort of statement of teenage rebellion like listening to punk/hardcore all the time

I like a bit of punk btw.

[adios 717]

more of a middle-aged rebellion then?

[Guest alex]

more of a middle-aged rebellion then?

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Fuck off!

[Gemmill 46026]

We forget that he is only 25, that he was a global icon as a teenager. The Tyneside goldfish bowl will be nothing new to him - and his attitude will not be Patrick Kluivert's

Honestly, Niall Quinn and The Guardian should fuck off

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Getting rid of Kluivert and signing Owen in the same transfer window - bet you're gutted!

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Not at all. And I don't think Kluivert is gutted either that he left the current #19 of the Premierleague. But I don't like it when Quinn writes crap about Kluivert's attitude, like he knows anything about it anyway.

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Oh Christ, who invited Kluivert's boyfriend here?

[luckypierre 0]

more of a middle-aged rebellion then?

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he's got the haircut

Edited September 13, 2005 by luckypierre