Freddy's £12m Signing..

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

[ewerk 31620]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

[ewerk 31620]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

[Guest alex]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

[ewerk 31620]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

 

Pathetic attempt at a wind up.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

[Guest alex]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

Shearer and Bellamy spring to mind.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

Shearer and Bellamy spring to mind.

 

Owen and Martins

[Guest alex]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

Shearer and Bellamy spring to mind.

 

Owen and Martins

Can they play together etc.? It's not worth arguing with someone who sees Dyer as being on a par with any of those four though imo

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

Shearer and Bellamy spring to mind.

 

Owen and Martins

Can they play together etc.? It's not worth arguing with someone who sees Dyer as being on a par with any of those four though imo

 

I didn't say I rated Dyer at all, I said he has been the yardstick for top player material by all managers since Robson

[Guest alex]

I didn't say I rated Dyer at all, I said he has been the yardstick for top player material by all managers since Robson

I know what you said.

Edited May 14, 2007 by alex

[Shearergol 0]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

Shearer and Bellamy spring to mind.

 

Owen and Martins

 

Shearer and Bellamy >>>> Owen and Martins

[Jimbo 175]

This is exactly what I was on about, Sam has not been recruited because of our current position, he's been recruited because Fred thinks he can improve on Robson's failure to improve on 3rd, he's here because Fred thinks he can win the league.

 

Is that why Freddy has been saying that the new manager's aim is to get the club back in the top six for the next few seasons?

 

Changed his tune hasn't he? Would you sack Robson for finishing 5th to get Allardyce to keep you top six? Sam will probably denounce his statement about coming for trophies then I guess.

 

Robson was sacked 3 years ago ffs, I think Souness' and Roeder's reigns have successfully lowered expectations.

 

Not much difference in the squads though is there, our best player standard is still Dyer. Arguably, we even have a better goalscorer.

You don't think there's much difference in the squads? Disagree there. Dyer wasn't our best player (or on a par with our best player) then and he isn't now either.

 

 

I can only think of Robert that is better than anything we have now.

Shearer and Bellamy spring to mind.

 

Owen and Martins

 

Shearer and Bellamy >>>> Owen and Martins

 

Kluivert and Bellamy >>>> Shearer and Bellamy

[Shearergol 0]

Kluivert and Bellamy >>>> Shearer and Bellamy

 

At the time, maybe so. Not at their peak though.

[Jimbo 175]

Kluivert and Bellamy >>>> Shearer and Bellamy

 

At the time, maybe so. Not at their peak though.

 

Agreed.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I really can't believe we are offering to pay him this much.

 

By all means, offer him a significant amount as a total package based on targets (cups, position etc) but 12m/4yrs as a basic?

 

He refuses to field calls from Houllier who has proven himself in both foreign and domestic leagues and from Sven! Earlier in the week we we talking about Sven as being an expensive manager but I dont think any of us expected this.

 

I'm not totally sold on Sam but imo he has it all to prove with a package like that.

 

I really despair with NUFC. Why is it the Scousers can get Rafa for less or Arsenal get Whinger yet we feel we have to spunk a load of cash on someon who's won nowt?

 

FS seems to feel that throwing money at this club will sort it out. We aren't that flush.

 

I hope this pays off. We need top 6 next season.

I'll put in on record that I prefer Big Sam than the other two. Take a look at Houllier's transfer market record when he was at Liverpool. Bloody atrocious. Cisse, Sinama-Pongole and add another 6 or 7 French players to that list totalling about 20m. Waste of money. He's doing well in the French League, because he knows the French system back to front and he's managing the strongest French team at Lyon. If he came to Newcastle I'd have absolutely no confidence in him when it came to bringing players in.

 

As for Sven, he was on a ridiculously high salary when he managed England. His aim was toi build for the World Cup last year, and he did absolutely nothing. Some of his selections were mind boggling. How the hell do you pick a 17 year old (Wallcott) with no Premiership experience over one (Defoe) with a proven record playing at the highest level?

Why did he rely on a player who was unfit and played no games leading up to the WC (Owen) to score you goals?

Why keep faith in a player who broke his foot (Rooney) and wasn't going to be fit enough to do any good anyway?

All the decent teams in the WC started slowly and progressively got better as the tournament went on. England didn't. If anything we got worse.

As for his days at Lazio, yes he won the Scudetto, but he had money to spend. Lazio had to top the spending list in Italy at the time to achieve what they did.

 

I think Newcastle and Sam are a perfect match. The 4 year contract he's about to sign suggests that the club will not be able to fork out the money that has been made available to previous managers. Hasn't Fred released something like 300m to 5 managers???

Most of it bloody wasted. We are in debt to a tune of something like 80m. Haven't studied the facts and figures but it'll probably take 4 years to clear the debt we have.

In saying that, 15-20m will probably be available to Sam every year. 15-20m is a huge amount considering how much Sam was able to spend at Bolton. That's a goldmine for him and he'll spend it wisely. Aty least with Sam he won't buy another Luque for 10m ffs.

 

Sam and his backroom staff also have a proven record when it comes to injuries. Bolton have the best record when it comes to keeping players on the field. Newcastle have the worst by a country mile. Again, a perfect match between Sam and the club. No more getting crock players like Babayaro (who was always injured at Chelsea before we were stupid enough to bring him to the club ffs). If the current training regime and recuperation methods have flaws in it (which it must have) then Sam and his backroom staff will pick up on and fix.

 

Considering where the club is right now, Sam is the perfect manager. I just want to see the club heading in the right direction, like everyone else and I'm sure he's the man to do it. In a perfect world we'd all like to see changes in the boardroom or at least a change in the chairman, but this won't ever happen. Not for a long while anyway. Freddy wants the Hall family to sell up there shares so he can buy them and take full control so we know Fred's at the club for the long haul. What can be fixed though is the coaching methods and the players who are too comfortable at the club. It's the next best thing possible.

 

Couldn't agree more, spot on. For once the club have looked at all the areas within the club that either don't exist, need fixed or need implimented and went for a man not only capable of identifying such things but also implementing them and acheiving success in those areas too. Furthermore a man who has on a limited budget, achieved a higher average finish in his years as a Premiership manager, than we have, despite some £250m spent compared to -£££ at Bolton.

 

He is clearly the right man for the job, a manager neither Souness nor Roeder were or were ever going to become.

 

We can now look forward with some degree of confidence, excitement and whisper it... hope. Something distinctly lacking over the past few years.

 

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Rubbish. No one's looked at jack shit, what's happened is the man who was wanted after Robson has finally become available. Simple as that.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Rubbish. No one's looked at jack shit, what's happened is the man who was wanted after Robson has finally become available. Simple as that.

 

We looked at a whole host of managers after Sir Bobby and not just Sam Allardyce, so your point is pretty meaningless. Bruce was our first choice BTW.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Rubbish. No one's looked at jack shit, what's happened is the man who was wanted after Robson has finally become available. Simple as that.

 

We looked at a whole host of managers after Sir Bobby and not just Sam Allardyce, so your point is pretty meaningless. Bruce was our first choice BTW.

 

If he had said yes he would have been manager. Bruce was nowhere near the top choice, that's even more absurd than Fat Sam.

Edited May 14, 2007 by Super_Steve_Howey

[Chaser 1321]

Spot on post from Ken, agree wholeheartedly with everything thats been said. Ill give SA my full backing i just hope that he fulfills expectations

 

As a club expectations have rightly lowered after the failings of the last few seasons. I think its more important right now for the club to consolidate and regroup, giving Sam a full pre-season to get this ship sailing again. Hell he might even work his magic with Luque who knows. Whats for sure is that everyones been given a second opportunity again until Sam decides for sure that theyre not welcome anymore.

 

Its the first piece of "planning" we've seen for some time.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Great. Let's give Bramble another chance to play for a contract. How's about we let the next manager stay long enough to implement the changes he wants? Might be an idea...

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Agree with what Ken et al have been saying, whether its great "planning" by Fat Fred or just that he's decided for whatever reason to go for Big Sam.

 

The fact is alot of what is worst at this shambles of a club are the very things Big Sam and his team are good at sorting out. It does look like maybe, finally somebody has got to Fat Fred and pointed out some of what's wrong here and that he has went for a prime target to change this.

 

I think given a free reign to bring in his team, decent financial backing (which he'll get) and time to turn things round that Allardyce will do a good job here.

 

And before anybody (Well one person) says why should he get time when Roeder didn't, the blatantly obvious answer lies in the fact we were a continuing Shambles under Roeder, if anything getting worse and his track record was shite. Allardyce can sort us out but he needs the fans to give him at least soem time before they start turning the atmosphere to the usual negative, whingeing, booing pile of shite that makes St. James a horrible place to be these days!

 

Not sayign Allardyce is the messiah, but i'm sticking my neck out and saying i think he's what we need and it will work out.

[maggiespaws 0]

I really can't believe we are offering to pay him this much.

 

By all means, offer him a significant amount as a total package based on targets (cups, position etc) but 12m/4yrs as a basic?

 

He refuses to field calls from Houllier who has proven himself in both foreign and domestic leagues and from Sven! Earlier in the week we we talking about Sven as being an expensive manager but I dont think any of us expected this.

 

I'm not totally sold on Sam but imo he has it all to prove with a package like that.

 

I really despair with NUFC. Why is it the Scousers can get Rafa for less or Arsenal get Whinger yet we feel we have to spunk a load of cash on someon who's won nowt?

 

FS seems to feel that throwing money at this club will sort it out. We aren't that flush.

 

I hope this pays off. We need top 6 next season.

I'll put in on record that I prefer Big Sam than the other two. Take a look at Houllier's transfer market record when he was at Liverpool. Bloody atrocious. Cisse, Sinama-Pongole and add another 6 or 7 French players to that list totalling about 20m. Waste of money. He's doing well in the French League, because he knows the French system back to front and he's managing the strongest French team at Lyon. If he came to Newcastle I'd have absolutely no confidence in him when it came to bringing players in.

 

As for Sven, he was on a ridiculously high salary when he managed England. His aim was toi build for the World Cup last year, and he did absolutely nothing. Some of his selections were mind boggling. How the hell do you pick a 17 year old (Wallcott) with no Premiership experience over one (Defoe) with a proven record playing at the highest level?

Why did he rely on a player who was unfit and played no games leading up to the WC (Owen) to score you goals?

Why keep faith in a player who broke his foot (Rooney) and wasn't going to be fit enough to do any good anyway?

All the decent teams in the WC started slowly and progressively got better as the tournament went on. England didn't. If anything we got worse.

As for his days at Lazio, yes he won the Scudetto, but he had money to spend. Lazio had to top the spending list in Italy at the time to achieve what they did.

 

I think Newcastle and Sam are a perfect match. The 4 year contract he's about to sign suggests that the club will not be able to fork out the money that has been made available to previous managers. Hasn't Fred released something like 300m to 5 managers???

Most of it bloody wasted. We are in debt to a tune of something like 80m. Haven't studied the facts and figures but it'll probably take 4 years to clear the debt we have.

In saying that, 15-20m will probably be available to Sam every year. 15-20m is a huge amount considering how much Sam was able to spend at Bolton. That's a goldmine for him and he'll spend it wisely. Aty least with Sam he won't buy another Luque for 10m ffs.

 

Sam and his backroom staff also have a proven record when it comes to injuries. Bolton have the best record when it comes to keeping players on the field. Newcastle have the worst by a country mile. Again, a perfect match between Sam and the club. No more getting crock players like Babayaro (who was always injured at Chelsea before we were stupid enough to bring him to the club ffs). If the current training regime and recuperation methods have flaws in it (which it must have) then Sam and his backroom staff will pick up on and fix.

 

Considering where the club is right now, Sam is the perfect manager. I just want to see the club heading in the right direction, like everyone else and I'm sure he's the man to do it. In a perfect world we'd all like to see changes in the boardroom or at least a change in the chairman, but this won't ever happen. Not for a long while anyway. Freddy wants the Hall family to sell up there shares so he can buy them and take full control so we know Fred's at the club for the long haul. What can be fixed though is the coaching methods and the players who are too comfortable at the club. It's the next best thing possible.

 

I have to say, I agree will a lot of what you've said (even though you were offering a counter argument to some of the points I mentioned). You've stated many of the points that had put me in two minds in the first place.

 

I think what helped to keep me there (and prompted my initial post) was that the package he'd been offered was so high in comparison to other, more successful managers in the EPL. I agree with your points about fitness and injuries etc, these are some of the things I am really hopeful of when I look at our new manager.

 

Anyway, he's here now and time will tell. Given his contract, it probably means he'll be here for the long haul as well which is good. We need some stability and someone who can repair the damage of recent seasons.

 

On reflection, whilst I'm not running around the room, I'm not underwhelmed either. We need someone to rebuild from within, creating a strong platform for the team and this is something he is proven at.

 

I'm actually looking forward to the close season to see what we do.

Edited May 15, 2007 by maggiespaws