Roeder and NUFC part company

[Guest alex]

You see, I don't think he has done a good job this season even with the mitigating factors. A loss at Watford and we'll have had our worst Premiership season ever.

 

Never said a good job, an ok job, but with the injuries and the squad that may have been inevitable (does the current squad really stand up to what KK built, or Daglish took over, or Guilt did, or Robson or Souness?).

 

Injuries completely screwed up Robson in at least one season and did for almost all those managers mentioned in some sense or another.

I don't think he's done an ok job either.

[Fop 1]

You see, I don't think he has done a good job this season even with the mitigating factors. A loss at Watford and we'll have had our worst Premiership season ever.

Exactly. I still judge him on the players he had to his disposal (and not on those who were injured). It's granted that he was unlucky with not having the likes of Owen available. But his biggest problem was that he only got mostly poor performances out of the likes of Emre, Parker, Duff, Martins, Dyer etc. And that did rightfully cost him the job in the end.

 

Of course several of those players were out injured for long periods of the season, in fact of those only Martins and Parker didn't spend a least a significant time injured (or not playing at least) this season.

 

He wasn't a great motivator though, that much is obvious.

[Fop 1]

You see, I don't think he has done a good job this season even with the mitigating factors. A loss at Watford and we'll have had our worst Premiership season ever.

 

Never said a good job, an ok job, but with the injuries and the squad that may have been inevitable (does the current squad really stand up to what KK built, or Daglish took over, or Guilt did, or Robson or Souness?).

 

Injuries completely screwed up Robson in at least one season and did for almost all those managers mentioned in some sense or another.

I don't think he's done an ok job either.

 

I must admit I am bemused at what an "ok" job (never mind a "good" job) would translate to being this year.

 

Top 6 and win the UEFA Cup? Seriously no manager was going to do that with this squad and those injuries, and it's madness to think otherwise.

[Guest alex]

You see, I don't think he has done a good job this season even with the mitigating factors. A loss at Watford and we'll have had our worst Premiership season ever.

 

Never said a good job, an ok job, but with the injuries and the squad that may have been inevitable (does the current squad really stand up to what KK built, or Daglish took over, or Guilt did, or Robson or Souness?).

 

Injuries completely screwed up Robson in at least one season and did for almost all those managers mentioned in some sense or another.

I don't think he's done an ok job either.

 

I must admit I am bemused at what an "ok" job (never mind a "good" job) would translate to being this year.

 

Top 6 and win the UEFA Cup? Seriously no manager was going to do that with this squad and those injuries, and it's madness to think otherwise.

Never said that, did I? I'm seriously struggling to think of one positive I can take out of what Roeder's done this season. The list of negatives is a long one.

[Fop 1]

You see, I don't think he has done a good job this season even with the mitigating factors. A loss at Watford and we'll have had our worst Premiership season ever.

 

Never said a good job, an ok job, but with the injuries and the squad that may have been inevitable (does the current squad really stand up to what KK built, or Daglish took over, or Guilt did, or Robson or Souness?).

 

Injuries completely screwed up Robson in at least one season and did for almost all those managers mentioned in some sense or another.

I don't think he's done an ok job either.

 

I must admit I am bemused at what an "ok" job (never mind a "good" job) would translate to being this year.

 

Top 6 and win the UEFA Cup? Seriously no manager was going to do that with this squad and those injuries, and it's madness to think otherwise.

Never said that, did I? I'm seriously struggling to think of one positive I can take out of what Roeder's done this season. The list of negatives is a long one.

 

It's been a shit season (although the Uefa run was ok with a terrible end - Much like Man U's CH one I guess), and some of that can and should be laid at Roeder's door, but nothing like as much as is laid at his door here.

 

I'm just bemused that say an 8th finish would have been enough, or not, who knows. Expectation>>>> reality.

[Guest alex]

You're not having the fucking Uefa Cup run as a positive just in case you were even thinkng about it btw

[Fop 1]

You're not having the fucking Uefa Cup run as a positive just in case you were even thinkng about it btw

 

Cup runs rarely mean much unless you end up winning them, on the other hand with group stages especially, they are a drain and will often mess up most clubs league form, even ones without injuries and big high quality squads.

 

From his job point of view it would have been better never to have qualified through the Intertoto really.

[Renton 22449]

Team selections, tactics and moronic quotes in the media. Explain those away if you can.

[Guest alex]

You're not having the fucking Uefa Cup run as a positive just in case you were even thinkng about it btw

 

Cup runs rarely mean much unless you end up winning them, on the other hand with group stages especially, they are a drain and will often mess up most clubs league form, even ones without injuries and big high quality squads.

 

From his job point of view it would have been better never to have qualified through the Intertoto really.

From everyone's point of view it would have been better if he'd never got us to 7th last season.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

I'm usually one of the people most likely to allow a manager the excuse of injuries and say that its a valid reason as to why they struggled. BUt quite simply there is an overiding factor this season that people defending Roeder are ignoring:

 

And that is the unmitigated shower of shite that practically every other team who faced us at St. James was and how even with all the injuries Roeder had more than enough at his disposal to have won these games, and yet through his inept tactics, lack of motivation, coaching, ideas and ability to have a plan B or even just make basic substitutions he pissed away points against teams that aren't fit to call themsleves football teams!

 

And that is at home, under Roeder away from home we might as well have just waved a white flag at the start of all bar a handful of games in the prem, much like under Souness.

 

Obviously with just Owen alone not being injured we would have finished higher, Owen's goals kept Souness in a job by hiding quite how shite he was for a brief spell.

But that can't excuse the truly woeful football i watched Roeder's team churn out. Dull, lacking in any creativity or vision, disorganised and clueless, lacking passion or fight and throwin away game after game against some of the worst teams i've ever witnessed at St. James.

 

And Roeder had a major fault in all shite managers, he made mistakes and despite it being clear for all they were mistakes he kept repeating them, again just like Souness. Parker and Butt in the centre at home is useless, we all know it, its glaringly obvious, yet time and again this idiot would pick them and we'd create fuck all at home. There are plenty of other examples of him repeating errors as well.

 

Allardyce and many other managers would have done better with the players we had available, helped by being backed up by better backroom teams they would have brought with them. I mean FFS a manager who was Roeder's clone but with the basic addition of understanding substituitons would have made big improvements and thats one little thing!

Edited May 8, 2007 by Papa Lazaru

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

[Guest alex]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

Almost as tiresome as picking up on one tiny aspect of what someone has posted and completely ignoring the point they were actually making, you mean?

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

Almost as tiresome as picking up on one tiny aspect of what someone has posted and completely ignoring the point they were actually making, you mean?

 

That was the essence of the post. I am criticising his essence.

[Guest alex]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

Almost as tiresome as picking up on one tiny aspect of what someone has posted and completely ignoring the point they were actually making, you mean?

 

That was the essence of the post. I am criticising his essence.

Of Papa L's? Without wishing to put words into his mouth I'd say it was about how poor Roeder was not how Allardyce would be better.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Papa Lazaru

[Renton 22449]

Maybe you actually had to watch our matches to appreciate how bad they were.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

Almost as tiresome as picking up on one tiny aspect of what someone has posted and completely ignoring the point they were actually making, you mean?

 

That was the essence of the post. I am criticising his essence.

Of Papa L's? Without wishing to put words into his mouth I'd say it was about how poor Roeder was not how Allardyce would be better.

 

Feel free to, as you seem to have managed the simple task of reading my post and seeing that "the essence" of it was criticising Roeder and saying other managers (of which Big Sam is one) could and would have done better. But then it wasn't a hard post for people to understand really was it!

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

[Guest alex]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

That's right, you can't say for certain. Is that the essence of your point by the way? As it seems a fairly pointless argument to make

[Papa Lazaru 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

 

Its very much educated guesswork, if its anything. Based on my knowledge of all that is wrong with Roeder, his backroom team and what is happening on the pitch and knowledge of the things Allardyce would bring with him, comparing the previous track record of the two managers, i can make a good estimate that Allardyce and his team would have done better. I've never said he would have won the title and taken us into the CL, merely he would have done better than Roeder and i would have bet my life on it.

 

As for midfield i can get practically every fan who watches us to agree on not playign Butt and PArker together, which is all i said, i never mentioned the best pairing.

[Jimbo 175]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

 

 

Its all opinion, something you seem to clearly confuse with fact.

[Renton 22449]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

 

Fuck me, you sound like Leazes now. Let's just toss a coin to decide who should manage us then, shall we?

 

Planning.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

 

Its very much educated guesswork, if its anything. Based on my knowledge of all that is wrong with Roeder, his backroom team and what is happening on the pitch and knowledge of the things Allardyce would bring with him, comparing the previous track record of the two managers, i can make a good estimate that Allardyce and his team would have done better. I've never said he would have won the title and taken us into the CL, merely he would have done better than Roeder and i would have bet my life on it.

 

As for midfield i can get practically every fan who watches us to agree on not playign Butt and PArker together, which is all i said, i never mentioned the best pairing.

 

It wasn't the 'you' meaning of 'you' but the other meaning of 'you'

[Papa Lazaru 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

 

Its very much educated guesswork, if its anything. Based on my knowledge of all that is wrong with Roeder, his backroom team and what is happening on the pitch and knowledge of the things Allardyce would bring with him, comparing the previous track record of the two managers, i can make a good estimate that Allardyce and his team would have done better. I've never said he would have won the title and taken us into the CL, merely he would have done better than Roeder and i would have bet my life on it.

 

As for midfield i can get practically every fan who watches us to agree on not playign Butt and PArker together, which is all i said, i never mentioned the best pairing.

 

It wasn't the 'you' meaning of 'you' but the other meaning of 'you'

 

Well i'm willing to give it a shot and personally demand the fans agree on a pairing of my choice for the following season, i'll wait and see who we sign first though!

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

'Allardyce would have done better'

 

I'm getting a bit tired of this, it's complete supposition. Fat Sam has never had to motivate these players and has never had to turn a caretaker season into a top 6 finish in front of 52,000 fans.

 

If you're tired of it then just accept it as its pretty obvious its the case. Anybody who watched the team week in and week out could see all that was wrong with the team and the things that needed sorting. Roeder failed to, plenty of other managers and their teams (including but not exclusive to Allardyce) could and would have done.

 

I'm more than open to people having the opinion that there is better than Big Sam out there, i agree. I'm even willing to listen to people's reasons why they don't want him at all, that's their choice. But anyone who thinks he wouldn't have done better than Roeder is dillusional IMO, there are plenty of managers who would have.

 

It's complete guesswork. A totally different set of players, different club, different expectations and pressures and different distractions. No way can you just slot another manager in and say, yup, would have done better. You can't even get the fans to agree what midfield pairing to play.

 

 

Its all opinion, something you seem to clearly confuse with fact.

 

 

What's your point? I didn't say Allardyce wouldn't have done better did I?

 

If you want to be pedantic, it's my OPINION that the statement 'Allardyce would have done better' [with this squad this year] is an incorrect assertion based on the variables . No-one can say either way what would have happened, therefore any judgement on the merits of sacking Roeder for Allardyce on this basis is flawed.