3 year old girl gone missing in portugal

[Shearergol 0]

If the parents had killed her, why wouldn't they just claim they were asleep when someone broke in and snatched her? They've already opened themselves up to doubt by admitting they were out on the piss.

 

However, their claim that they didn't use the creche because they didn't like leaving the kids with strangers doesn't really work when they were left with the very same people at the kids club during the day.

 

I'm not a parent, but I know that when I'm looking after my niece I never let her out of my sight (even when her parents are around).

[Shearergol 0]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

I'll wag the finger, what they did was simply inexcusable regardless of the hindsight of the abduction, I would never leave my children unattended under any circumstances.

 

Seriously Jimbo, have you never left the kids in the house and popped out to get something out of the car?

 

Like I said, it only takes that split second. The McCann's might have been away from the kids for a prolonged period, but they were checking back on them every 20mins or so. As I have said, I think that from a moral perspective, what they did was very questionable and a huge mistake but what they did is by no means unprecendented.

 

They're being chastised because they were unfortunate enough to be the ones that had their child abducted.

 

We all try to wrap our children up in cotton wool as much as possible, but it is impossible to keep an eye on them 24/7. Nothing more tragically highlights this than what happened to Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman. As far as Holly's parents were concerned, the two of them were playing in Holly's room upstairs not knowing that the two of them had sneaked out to buy sweets.

 

As for the comment someone made about a mother leaving her child alone outside a shop in a busy shopping mall (in the case of James Bulger) not being as bad as what the McCann's did. I don't necessarily agree. In both instances, the child was under the care of their parent and in both cases, the parent left the child in a vulnerable situation from which someone exploited.

 

I think Renton has pretty much summed it up well. Until they're proven guilty, the McCanns are innocent and should be treated as such.

 

Bulger's mother didn't leave him outside though. He went in with her, and was enticed out by his murderers. If however (and I can't find a source for it anywhere) she just left him waiting at the door, she's a fucking idiot, just like the McCann's.

[Fop 1]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

I'll wag the finger, what they did was simply inexcusable regardless of the hindsight of the abduction, I would never leave my children unattended under any circumstances.

 

People do though.

 

I saw a young mother last week leave her 3 year old daughter and under 1 year old outside a super market, she told the older one not to move and popped in for something, she was only gone for maybe ~45 seconds, but still time enough for an abduction really.

 

I'd say that was probably more risky than what those group of parents were doing (leaving them in their nearby flats and 1 going to check on them every 20 mins or so).

 

Although both are really stupid things to do.

 

To my mind, a worse case of negligence does not vindicate a lesser case.

 

I'm not a father but I know that there is no way I'd leave kids of that age unattended, especially not in an area with which I was unfamiliar, even if the gaps of absence were only 30 minutes.

 

My friends who are parents daren't leave their kids alone in a seperate room in their own home without checking, let alone an hotel room.

 

 

That's probably bordering on the paranoid.

 

Although a couple of friends of mine did walk out of their living room to find a drug addict going through their coats in their hallway (they negligently left their back door closed but NOT locked).

[Craig 6670]

Bulger's mother didn't leave him outside though. He went in with her, and was enticed out by his murderers. If however (and I can't find a source for it anywhere) she just left him waiting at the door, she's a fucking idiot, just like the McCann's.

 

...On Friday, Feb 12, Denise accompanied her brother’s girlfriend Nicola to the Bootle Strand Shopping Center and, of course, she brought James. At 2:30 they entered the modern, two-story shopping center. Inside, ceramic tile lined the walkways, and natural lighting filled the space. Nicola had to exchange some underwear at TJ Hughes, and Denise waited nearby, watching the children. For a moment James disappeared from sight. He was getting antsy, and made a fuss if he had to ride in the stroller. James wandered, but soon cried out, frightened to suddenly find himself alone.

 

Denise picked him up and they left TJ Hughes. She bought the children a snack, hoping to quiet James down. But the two-year-old was full of energy. At a children’s clothing store he tossed around baby’s clothes and at another store grabbed some candy and juice before Denise could stop him. They would be leaving soon, after one last stop at the butcher’s shop. Denise went in, leaving James by the door. Since there wasn’t a line, so she figured James, who was squirming and fussing in her arms, would be okay for a moment on his own.

 

The butcher mixed up the order, occupying Denise a little longer than she expected. Nicola, her companion, had just seen James playing with a cigarette butt by the door. When the young mother left the shop to scoop up her child, he was gone. She ran back inside, flustered. “I was only in the shop a few seconds. I turned round and he’d gone,” she cried....

 

Source: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murd...g/bulger/2.html

 

OK, it's an account of the events but I think it is based on witness testimony (certainly is if you read the rest of the story).

[Jimbo 172]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

I'll wag the finger, what they did was simply inexcusable regardless of the hindsight of the abduction, I would never leave my children unattended under any circumstances.

 

Seriously Jimbo, have you never left the kids in the house and popped out to get something out of the car?

 

 

 

I don't leave them unattended.

[Shearergol 0]

Bulger's mother didn't leave him outside though. He went in with her, and was enticed out by his murderers. If however (and I can't find a source for it anywhere) she just left him waiting at the door, she's a fucking idiot, just like the McCann's.

 

...On Friday, Feb 12, Denise accompanied her brother’s girlfriend Nicola to the Bootle Strand Shopping Center and, of course, she brought James. At 2:30 they entered the modern, two-story shopping center. Inside, ceramic tile lined the walkways, and natural lighting filled the space. Nicola had to exchange some underwear at TJ Hughes, and Denise waited nearby, watching the children. For a moment James disappeared from sight. He was getting antsy, and made a fuss if he had to ride in the stroller. James wandered, but soon cried out, frightened to suddenly find himself alone.

 

Denise picked him up and they left TJ Hughes. She bought the children a snack, hoping to quiet James down. But the two-year-old was full of energy. At a children’s clothing store he tossed around baby’s clothes and at another store grabbed some candy and juice before Denise could stop him. They would be leaving soon, after one last stop at the butcher’s shop. Denise went in, leaving James by the door. Since there wasn’t a line, so she figured James, who was squirming and fussing in her arms, would be okay for a moment on his own.

 

The butcher mixed up the order, occupying Denise a little longer than she expected. Nicola, her companion, had just seen James playing with a cigarette butt by the door. When the young mother left the shop to scoop up her child, he was gone. She ran back inside, flustered. “I was only in the shop a few seconds. I turned round and he’d gone,” she cried....

 

Source: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murd...g/bulger/2.html

 

OK, it's an account of the events but I think it is based on witness testimony (certainly is if you read the rest of the story).

 

Then, just like the McCann's, she's a fucking idiot. I'm sorry, and I know I can't possibly imagine what being a parent is like (before you say it), but that's just stupid, and can't be defended.

 

Craig, am I right in thinking you have friends who are friends with the McCann's?

[Jimbo 172]

I'm not getting this comparision between "I'll just take my eyes off my kids for a second" and "Lets go out for drinkies and leave the kids alone"

[Gemmill 44114]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

[Craig 6670]

Bulger's mother didn't leave him outside though. He went in with her, and was enticed out by his murderers. If however (and I can't find a source for it anywhere) she just left him waiting at the door, she's a fucking idiot, just like the McCann's.

 

...On Friday, Feb 12, Denise accompanied her brother’s girlfriend Nicola to the Bootle Strand Shopping Center and, of course, she brought James. At 2:30 they entered the modern, two-story shopping center. Inside, ceramic tile lined the walkways, and natural lighting filled the space. Nicola had to exchange some underwear at TJ Hughes, and Denise waited nearby, watching the children. For a moment James disappeared from sight. He was getting antsy, and made a fuss if he had to ride in the stroller. James wandered, but soon cried out, frightened to suddenly find himself alone.

 

Denise picked him up and they left TJ Hughes. She bought the children a snack, hoping to quiet James down. But the two-year-old was full of energy. At a children’s clothing store he tossed around baby’s clothes and at another store grabbed some candy and juice before Denise could stop him. They would be leaving soon, after one last stop at the butcher’s shop. Denise went in, leaving James by the door. Since there wasn’t a line, so she figured James, who was squirming and fussing in her arms, would be okay for a moment on his own.

 

The butcher mixed up the order, occupying Denise a little longer than she expected. Nicola, her companion, had just seen James playing with a cigarette butt by the door. When the young mother left the shop to scoop up her child, he was gone. She ran back inside, flustered. “I was only in the shop a few seconds. I turned round and he’d gone,” she cried....

 

Source: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murd...g/bulger/2.html

 

OK, it's an account of the events but I think it is based on witness testimony (certainly is if you read the rest of the story).

 

Then, just like the McCann's, she's a fucking idiot. I'm sorry, and I know I can't possibly imagine what being a parent is like (before you say it), but that's just stupid, and can't be defended.

 

Craig, am I right in thinking you have friends who are friends with the McCann's?

 

I have a friend who has socialised with them in the past, yes.

[Craig 6670]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

[Shearergol 0]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

 

If friends of mine did the same, then I would be berating them, even if nothing had happened. Wouldn't you?

[Jimbo 172]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

 

 

If Maddie had not "dissappeared" we wouldn't know about the incident. would we ?

[Craig 6670]

I'm not getting this comparision between "I'll just take my eyes off my kids for a second" and "Lets go out for drinkies and leave the kids alone"

 

If you're being watched by someone intent of abducting a child (i think it's fair to assume that it most likely wasn't a moment of opportunism) then it doesn't matter if your back is turned for 2 minutes or 20 - once it's turned, they'll make their move.

 

Its the moral high ground issue. We all (and i'm talking about parents up and down the country) can sit here and say "there's no way I'd have left my kids in that situation" and as Gemmill pointed out, I'm as guilty as anyone for saying it but looking at it rationally:

 

1) We're saying it with the benefit of hindsight (what a wonderful thing that is and I bet the McCanns wish they'd had the opportunity)

2) It is totally impossible to watch you kids for every single moment of their life

[Craig 6670]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

 

If friends of mine did the same, then I would be berating them, even if nothing had happened. Wouldn't you?

 

I presume you mean if they'd done it without any abduction taking place and the Madeleine situation hadn't occurred? I might point out that they'd taken a risk in doing what they'd done but berate them? Probably not

[RlCO 0]

I bet the friends they were having dinner with wish they had said something

[Jimbo 172]

I'm not getting this comparision between "I'll just take my eyes off my kids for a second" and "Lets go out for drinkies and leave the kids alone"

 

If you're being watched by someone intent of abducting a child (i think it's fair to assume that it most likely wasn't a moment of opportunism) then it doesn't matter if your back is turned for 2 minutes or 20 - once it's turned, they'll make their move.

 

Its the moral high ground issue. We all (and i'm talking about parents up and down the country) can sit here and say "there's no way I'd have left my kids in that situation" and as Gemmill pointed out, I'm as guilty as anyone for saying it but looking at it rationally:

 

1) We're saying it with the benefit of hindsight (what a wonderful thing that is and I bet the McCanns wish they'd had the opportunity)

2) It is totally impossible to watch you kids for every single moment of their life

 

 

I don't see what the argument is, leaving children alone either in your own home or in a holiday appartment is completely inexcusable.

 

It's not a moral high-ground point of view, there is simply no argument for their actions regardless of the outcome of this tragedy

[Shearergol 0]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

 

If friends of mine did the same, then I would be berating them, even if nothing had happened. Wouldn't you?

 

I presume you mean if they'd done it without any abduction taking place and the Madeleine situation hadn't occurred? I might point out that they'd taken a risk in doing what they'd done but berate them? Probably not

 

 

OK, put it a different way. You go on holiday with a few friends and your kids. Your friends decide to leave their kids in the apartment and check back on them every 20 minutes. Do you do the same? Do you tell the friends that they are foolish for what they are doing? Even before this happened, I knew that leaving a 3 / 4 year old alone in an apartment is a fucking stupid thing to do.

[Craig 6670]

Who are we to wag the finger and say they were negligent, seriously......

 

Are we all perfect enough (and I'm talking about the ones of us on here who are parents) that we've never had a situation where our kids have been out of our sight long enough for someone to snatch them? I know that I can't say hand on heart that I've never left my kids in a position where they could be abducted. I've popped out to get something from my car and left them in the house - what's to stop someone coming in from the back and nabbing one of them?

 

How many people blamed Denise Fergus for leaving her son outside a butcher's shop while she went in and bought some meat for their family dinner? Her son just happened to be James Bulger and we all know what happened to him. Yet I can't recall one finger being pointed in the direction of his mother as a cause (even indirectly) to his abduction. Why are the McCann's being berated and she isn't? I presume its because she turned her back for a split second rather than going off to a tapas bar for 20 mins and was not doing something which could be classed as a 'social activity'.

 

My personal opinion here is that I think it is almost certain the villa was being watched. The room she was in was locked and the window had been forced to gain entry. The crime here isn't neglect, it's abduction. If the parents had been in another room in the apartment and someone had broken in through her window and exited with her, would that be their fault as well?

 

I think what they did (by leaving her) is morally VERY questionable. A very BIG mistake. But the criminal action is by the abductor/s and that must be pursued.

 

Contrast that with this:

 

Fucking hope the kid's alright - parents should be locked up for leaving them on their own tbh.

 

I wouldn't even feel right popping to the shop for a pint of milk and leaving Charlotte by herself and she's nearly 5.

 

IF it is true, I'd love to hear their justification for leaving them.

 

Part and parcel of becoming a parent is waiving the right to come and go as you please, your kids come first and if you can't find adequate care for them, you simply have to change your plans or take them with you. There's been many times when I've either had to say no or cancel plans because my kids welfare has come first.

 

There is absolute NO justification for leaving 3 children under the age of 4 by themselves just so that you can have a meal by yourselves.

 

I am sure they are going through a living hell at the moment, but if what is being suggested is true, they're entirely responsible!

 

....from page 1 and 2 of this thread.

 

Oh I know - ironically i'd just re-read that all myself. I still maintain that there is no justification for it and I personally wouldn't have left my kids. My big irk is with the fact that people are getting at the McCann's because they were "living it up" while they'd left their kids when in reality, what they were actually doing at the time of the abduction shouldn't make an ounce of difference.

 

Like I said, morally they've fucked up, but had Madeleine not disappeared, would we be berating them? Would we fuck!

 

If friends of mine did the same, then I would be berating them, even if nothing had happened. Wouldn't you?

 

I presume you mean if they'd done it without any abduction taking place and the Madeleine situation hadn't occurred? I might point out that they'd taken a risk in doing what they'd done but berate them? Probably not

 

 

OK, put it a different way. You go on holiday with a few friends and your kids. Your friends decide to leave their kids in the apartment and check back on them every 20 minutes. Do you do the same? Do you tell the friends that they are foolish for what they are doing? Even before this happened, I knew that leaving a 3 / 4 year old alone in an apartment is a fucking stupid thing to do.

 

 

Agree with you. It is fucking stupid. But as you've already agreed, there are other instances in the past where parents have made decisions that turn out to be fatally flawed but don't appear to have been on the receiving end of the same damning treatment that the McCanns have.

 

People take chances, its a fact of life. The McCanns took a chance on the safety of their daughter and sadly appear to have paid the ultimate price for that action. My point about the moral high ground Jimbo is that they'll know they made a terrible mistake, but people up and down the country telling them so is to be honest doing more harm than good.

[Shearergol 0]

Agree with you. It is fucking stupid. But as you've already agreed, there are other instances in the past where parents have made decisions that turn out to be fatally flawed but don't appear to have been on the receiving end of the same damning treatment that the McCanns have.

 

People take chances, its a fact of life. The McCanns took a chance on the safety of their daughter and sadly appear to have paid the ultimate price for that action. My point about the moral high ground Jimbo is that they'll know they made a terrible mistake, but people up and down the country telling them so is to be honest doing more harm than good.

 

Perhaps the fact that they've used the media spotlight to their own advantage, after doing such a stupid thing, is the reason some people are damning them?

 

I'm sure that if and when the murderers are found, the attention will turn to them.

[Park Life 71]

Hmm is say it was more the peasant underclass that continue to and allways have ruined England..

 

...yeah but that kind of ruining is a loveable clueless rapscallion style ruining...The middle classes on the other hand have done nothing but shit on the country since the 50's.

 

Explain...

 

....a simple place to start is the 68 layers of unnecessary Govt linked admin in England...The civil service..the council, posh fat cunts working in the local library..devolution..,more layers of meaningless paperwork for the chattering classes...snide holidays in Sri Lanka, tax breaks, 4x4's...Wierd ties and shirts at impromptu gatherings to drink horse piss...Need I go on?

 

The middle classes in league with the BBC have destroyed everything I once loved about England. Not to mention how they suck away all the taxpayers money...dribbling on countless forms and drinking free tea from the canteen....

 

Presuming you're being remotely serious, what type of society and press would you like to see in the UK, out of interest? One more like the US?

 

Your diatribe against the middle classes reveals quite a lot about your online personality I think. What do you do in Germany?

 

a) I don't give a monkeys about the press...

 

...what it reveals about my online personality is that I am editing three articles at the same time and didn't sleep last night.

[peasepud 59]

Either way they are not exactly in the running for Parents of the year.

 

I believe that the current holder of "Mum of the year" is Kate Moss so Id say its fairly fucking nailed on tbh

[ewerk 30167]

Either way they are not exactly in the running for Parents of the year.

 

I believe that the current holder of "Mum of the year" is Kate Moss so Id say its fairly fucking nailed on tbh

 

Jordan actually, though Kate Moss was shortlisted along with Jade Goody, previous winners are Kerry Katona and Sharon Osbourne, sounds like Kate Mc Cann would be the perfect candidate.

[Happy Face 29]

When I was a year older than maddie I used to walk to school on my own.

[Gejon 2]

When I was a year older than maddie I used to walk to school on my own.

 

 

You walked to school on your own when you were 4!?

 

How far was it?

[Happy Face 29]

When I was a year older than maddie I used to walk to school on my own.

 

 

You walked to school on your own when you were 4!?

 

How far was it?

 

She's 4 isn't she? I was 5 when I started the infants. About 1/2km away from home.