Isegrim 9652 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Judge him at the end of the season. 24347[/snapback] I judge him for all what he has done in nearly one year at Newcastle. That is excluding signing players. You don't need great manager skills to sign players, you need the skill to coach them and use them in the right way. Souness can't do it as he has proven game after game. 24365[/snapback] How can you exclude signing players?!! That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today! Because you don't have to be a football genius to beg your chairman to sign the likes of Owen, Parker, Luque and Emre. See if you can find anything about Emre's opinion of Souness. Still, I'm sure a professional footballer from Inter Milan's knowledge of football pales into insignificance compared to the sporting sages on this forum. 24379[/snapback] I'm fully aware of what Emre said about Souness. He said that Souness still has a big name in Turkey. But that is for sticking a flag into a pitch. He didn't say anything about his real manager skills IIRC. Compare this to the comments from Brett Emerton (a Souness signing) for example who said that Blackburn improved vastly in fitness when Hughes took over... EDIT: Emre even was only in the youth team when Souness managed Galatasaray. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/...ted/4701375.stm Edited August 31, 2005 by Isegrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Judge him at the end of the season. 24347[/snapback] I judge him for all what he has done in nearly one year at Newcastle. That is excluding signing players. You don't need great manager skills to sign players, you need the skill to coach them and use them in the right way. Souness can't do it as he has proven game after game. 24365[/snapback] How can you exclude signing players?!! That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today! Because you don't have to be a football genius to beg your chairman to sign the likes of Owen, Parker, Luque and Emre. See if you can find anything about Emre's opinion of Souness. Still, I'm sure a professional footballer from Inter Milan's knowledge of football pales into insignificance compared to the sporting sages on this forum. 24379[/snapback] I'm fully aware of what Emre said about Souness. He said that Souness still has a big name in Turkey. But that is for sticking a flag into a pitch. He didn't say anything about his real manager skills IIRC. Compare this to the comments from Brett Emerton (a Souness signing) for example who said that Blackburn improved vastly in fitness when Hughes took over... 24552[/snapback] Blackburn are doing cack under Hughes...AND they've got Bellamy! At least Souness won them a trophy which noone here has managed in 36 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 As Isegrim says there is no talent required to sign Owen £16m, Luque £9.5m, Parker £6m etc. etc. Everybody knows they are talented players and if you have the moeny you would go for them. Where managers show their ability is in finding players before they cost a fortune and are known to everyone and making he better, by improving players you already have in your squad and most of all by using tactics, formations, motivation, ideas, and any number of other attributes to get the best out of your squad and be successful. So far Souness has shown that given the money he will go after good players, i am still waiting (and hoping) he will show he can do soemthing with these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Judge him at the end of the season. 24347[/snapback] I judge him for all what he has done in nearly one year at Newcastle. That is excluding signing players. You don't need great manager skills to sign players, you need the skill to coach them and use them in the right way. Souness can't do it as he has proven game after game. 24365[/snapback] How can you exclude signing players?!! That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today! Because you don't have to be a football genius to beg your chairman to sign the likes of Owen, Parker, Luque and Emre. See if you can find anything about Emre's opinion of Souness. Still, I'm sure a professional footballer from Inter Milan's knowledge of football pales into insignificance compared to the sporting sages on this forum. 24379[/snapback] I'm fully aware of what Emre said about Souness. He said that Souness still has a big name in Turkey. But that is for sticking a flag into a pitch. He didn't say anything about his real manager skills IIRC. Compare this to the comments from Brett Emerton (a Souness signing) for example who said that Blackburn improved vastly in fitness when Hughes took over... 24552[/snapback] Blackburn are doing cack under Hughes...AND they've got Bellamy! At least Souness won them a trophy which noone here has managed in 36 years. 24559[/snapback] Blackburn looked like certain relegate candidates in Souness last weeks at Blackburn (as did Newcastle in the last weeks). Have you ever seen the cup run Blackburn had in this aforementioned season? btw - I added the link to what Emre said in the post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 As Isegrim says there is no talent required to sign Owen £16m, Luque £9.5m, Parker £6m etc. etc. Everybody knows they are talented players and if you have the moeny you would go for them. Where managers show their ability is in finding players before they cost a fortune and are known to everyone and making he better, by improving players you already have in your squad and most of all by using tactics, formations, motivation, ideas, and any number of other attributes to get the best out of your squad and be successful. So far Souness has shown that given the money he will go after good players, i am still waiting (and hoping) he will show he can do soemthing with these players. 24564[/snapback] Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Blackburn are doing cack under Hughes...AND they've got Bellamy! At least Souness won them a trophy which noone here has managed in 36 years Blackburn have been acclaimed as starting to play some decent stuff and clearly on the up since Souness left, their only problem is absolutely appalling discipline. As for them having Bellamy, he's been injured and barely played so they are yet to have the benefit of him playing. Yes he won a trophy, and yes we'd love one, but an average to poor manager can win the league cup with a run of a few games against poor sides and the top teams reserves, whereas the true top managers do the business in the league and getting into europe. Edited August 31, 2005 by Papa Lazaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 As Isegrim says there is no talent required to sign Owen £16m, Luque £9.5m, Parker £6m etc. etc. Everybody knows they are talented players and if you have the moeny you would go for them. Where managers show their ability is in finding players before they cost a fortune and are known to everyone and making he better, by improving players you already have in your squad and most of all by using tactics, formations, motivation, ideas, and any number of other attributes to get the best out of your squad and be successful. So far Souness has shown that given the money he will go after good players, i am still waiting (and hoping) he will show he can do soemthing with these players. 24564[/snapback] Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! 24571[/snapback] Well you can't knock the choices of Parker, Emre and Owen, we hope Luque is going to be good and he is going after Nobby, the sort of player we lack. I don't particularly trust him with these players, but glad they're here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! 24571[/snapback] Spot on, Robson's transfer policy was debateable. Edited August 31, 2005 by Sima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Souness is a cr*p manager, anyone who has been to our games for the last 4 months can work that one out! Fact is managers such as Curbishley and Alardyce are managing to get their 'poorer' teams to produce better results in the league consistently more than Souness ever has! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! 24571[/snapback] Spot on, Robson's transfer policy was debateable. 24584[/snapback] Though I think it was the whole club's policy that didn't work out. They wanted to build a team for the future that would close the gap to ManUre and Arsenal. The hunt for more proven players already started under Robson last summer. This year even with the right amount of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! 24571[/snapback] Spot on, Robson's transfer policy was debateable. 24584[/snapback] True, but he did sign Woodgate, and Bellamy was a great signing, no matter what happened after! There is always the Viana case but Souness has signed Faye and Babayaro, both I would say are mediocre and I would also question how much influence Souness actually had with Owen and Luque! I also still think Souness has failed to bring enough quality to our defence! However, that is a criticism that can be given to most Newcastle managers however! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Judge him at the end of the season. 24347[/snapback] I judge him for all what he has done in nearly one year at Newcastle. That is excluding signing players. You don't need great manager skills to sign players, you need the skill to coach them and use them in the right way. Souness can't do it as he has proven game after game. 24365[/snapback] How can you exclude signing players?!! That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today! Because you don't have to be a football genius to beg your chairman to sign the likes of Owen, Parker, Luque and Emre. See if you can find anything about Emre's opinion of Souness. Still, I'm sure a professional footballer from Inter Milan's knowledge of football pales into insignificance compared to the sporting sages on this forum. 24379[/snapback] I'm fully aware of what Emre said about Souness. He said that Souness still has a big name in Turkey. But that is for sticking a flag into a pitch. He didn't say anything about his real manager skills IIRC. Compare this to the comments from Brett Emerton (a Souness signing) for example who said that Blackburn improved vastly in fitness when Hughes took over... 24552[/snapback] Blackburn are doing cack under Hughes...AND they've got Bellamy! At least Souness won them a trophy which noone here has managed in 36 years. 24559[/snapback] Blackburn looked like certain relegate candidates in Souness last weeks at Blackburn (as did Newcastle in the last weeks). Have you ever seen the cup run Blackburn had in this aforementioned season? btw - I added the link to what Emre said in the post above. 24567[/snapback] Souness won a cup. Bobby Robson had a better team, more money and 5 years. Keegan the same. They couldn't manage it. He has got rid of the idiots in the dressing room and replaced them with solid professionals. You say his tactics on the pitch are non existant, (I may even be sympathetic to that opinion,) but at the club they're not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Milner Cort Bramble (to a certain extent) Edited August 31, 2005 by Sima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! 24571[/snapback] Spot on, Robson's transfer policy was debateable. 24584[/snapback] True, but he did sign Woodgate, and Bellamy was a great signing, no matter what happened after! There is always the Viana case but Souness has signed Faye and Babayaro, both I would say are mediocre and I would also question how much influence Souness actually had with Owen and Luque! I also still think Souness has failed to bring enough quality to our defence! However, that is a criticism that can be given to most Newcastle managers however! 24605[/snapback] Viana and Cort cost a hell of a lot more than Faye and Babayaro though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Souness won a cup. Bobby Robson had a better team, more money and 5 years. Keegan the same. They couldn't manage it. He has got rid of the idiots in the dressing room and replaced them with solid professionals. You say his tactics on the pitch are non existant, (I may even be sympathetic to that opinion,) but at the club they're not too shabby. Souness won a cup, whereas Bobby has of course won nothing in his entire career! He rid the team of people he couldn't handle or didn't like thats different, he also rid the team of goals scorers, goal creators and pace. His tactics are those of a child and thus only a child can't see where he is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Viana and Cort cost a hell of a lot more than Faye and Babayaro though. 24611[/snapback] Cort's not a left-back and (DER-DER-DER!) Viana is not a defensive midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Which is something he has over Bobby to be fair! 24571[/snapback] Spot on, Robson's transfer policy was debateable. 24584[/snapback] True, but he did sign Woodgate, and Bellamy was a great signing, no matter what happened after! There is always the Viana case but Souness has signed Faye and Babayaro, both I would say are mediocre and I would also question how much influence Souness actually had with Owen and Luque! I also still think Souness has failed to bring enough quality to our defence! However, that is a criticism that can be given to most Newcastle managers however! 24605[/snapback] Viana and Cort cost a hell of a lot more than Faye and Babayaro though. 24611[/snapback] Agreed, but Babayaro's is a crucial position and for some reason Souness doesn't seem to think it is important to address it with some serious cash! To be honest, I aint defending SBR too much, towards the end some of his signings really didn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Souness won a cup. By beating Oldham (h), Middlesboro (h) in extra time, Man City (h) after City were down to 10 men due to a debatable red card, Arsenal reserves (h), Sheffield Wednesday (semis) and finally with loads of luck they beat Tottenham in the final. Bobby Robson had a better team, more money and 5 years. SBR had to form the team that he lifted from midtable mediocrity into the Championsleague places (twice). Souness took over from an ageing SBR and lead a team from European football to relegation candidates. Souness was also allowed to throw loads of money at the likes of Boumsong, Parker, Luque and Owen - within just 8 months. Keegan the same. And Keegan delivered fantastic results (bar the title) They couldn't manage it. That's pure nonsense. Especially compared to what disastrous performances Souness has "managed" to produce so far. He has got rid of the idiots in the dressing room and replaced them with solid professionals. Who managed two shots on goal within four games this season. You say his tactics on the pitch are non existant, (I may even be sympathetic to that opinion,) but at the club they're not too shabby. 24607[/snapback] Sorry, I just don't understand what you want to say here. Edited August 31, 2005 by Isegrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagpole corner 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Looking inside from out, I can't understand the amount of stick Souness got. Half of the stick he got came before he even had a game. Fat Freddy was daft to back Robson last year but then sack him after 3 games which gave Souness no time whatsoever. Although he was maybe on the verge of the sack he did get Blackburn to 6th playing great football and winning a cup on the way. Newcastle were in a bit of a mess 12 months ago but Souness had a good run last year before fading away. He's got rid of the dickheads - Bellamy and Robert to name two and brought in some excellent players - Owen, Luque, Emre and Parker. I lost so much respect for Souness when he was manager with us but can't help that your fans have been far too hard on him. Just an outside opinion like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Looking inside from out, I can't understand the amount of stick Souness got. Half of the stick he got came before he even had a game. Fat Freddy was daft to back Robson last year but then sack him after 3 games which gave Souness no time whatsoever. Although he was maybe on the verge of the sack he did get Blackburn to 6th playing great football and winning a cup on the way. Newcastle were in a bit of a mess 12 months ago but Souness had a good run last year before fading away. He's got rid of the dickheads - Bellamy and Robert to name two and brought in some excellent players - Owen, Luque, Emre and Parker. I lost so much respect for Souness when he was manager with us but can't help that your fans have been far too hard on him. Just an outside opinion like. 24625[/snapback] Thankyou. I say give the guy a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43841 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Looking inside from out, I can't understand the amount of stick Souness got. Half of the stick he got came before he even had a game. Fat Freddy was daft to back Robson last year but then sack him after 3 games which gave Souness no time whatsoever. Although he was maybe on the verge of the sack he did get Blackburn to 6th playing great football and winning a cup on the way. Newcastle were in a bit of a mess 12 months ago but Souness had a good run last year before fading away. He's got rid of the dickheads - Bellamy and Robert to name two and brought in some excellent players - Owen, Luque, Emre and Parker. I lost so much respect for Souness when he was manager with us but can't help that your fans have been far too hard on him. Just an outside opinion like. 24625[/snapback] You're definitely right about people being too hard on him when he first came. A lot of people had made their minds up before he'd even managed one game. To be fair the jury is still out, but he certainly wasn't given a fair crack of the whip by a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Souness won a cup. Bobby Robson had a better team, more money and 5 years. Keegan the same. They couldn't manage it. He has got rid of the idiots in the dressing room and replaced them with solid professionals. You say his tactics on the pitch are non existant, (I may even be sympathetic to that opinion,) but at the club they're not too shabby. Souness won a cup, whereas Bobby has of course won nothing in his entire career! He rid the team of people he couldn't handle or didn't like thats different, he also rid the team of goals scorers, goal creators and pace. His tactics are those of a child and thus only a child can't see where he is lacking. 24613[/snapback] Of course Robson won things BEFORE he came here. So did Souness. Your point? Keegan actually never won anything as a manager apart from the then Division One championship IIRC. Robson won nothing HERE in 5 years. Nor did Keegan. My prediction is that if GS gets that kind of time he will win something. You disagree with me, that is all. Don't call me a child because I don't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flagpole corner 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Looking inside from out, I can't understand the amount of stick Souness got. Half of the stick he got came before he even had a game. Fat Freddy was daft to back Robson last year but then sack him after 3 games which gave Souness no time whatsoever. Although he was maybe on the verge of the sack he did get Blackburn to 6th playing great football and winning a cup on the way. Newcastle were in a bit of a mess 12 months ago but Souness had a good run last year before fading away. He's got rid of the dickheads - Bellamy and Robert to name two and brought in some excellent players - Owen, Luque, Emre and Parker. I lost so much respect for Souness when he was manager with us but can't help that your fans have been far too hard on him. Just an outside opinion like. 24625[/snapback] You're definitely right about people being too hard on him when he first came. A lot of people had made their minds up before he'd even managed one game. To be fair the jury is still out, but he certainly wasn't given a fair crack of the whip by a lot of people. 24634[/snapback] Definitley mate. I think Parker, Luque and Emre are collectivley better signings than Owen for £17m but even last week Souness was being called every name under the sun? The team was booed off on Sunday and the Souness out campaign continued. Yet suddenly signing Owen sounds as if everyone thinks your troubles will go. They won't. He's forging an excellent first team (squad ain't great) and brought in players to play good football and he's won a HUGE PR battle with the signing of Owen but things wont click into place overnight. Owen will have a miserable time feeding off scraps (he did that enough after 2001 with Houllier). Newcastle need some patience I think. I've backed you for 6th place personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Of course Robson won things BEFORE he came here. So did Souness. Your point? Keegan actually never won anything as a manager apart from the then Division One championship IIRC. Robson won nothing HERE in 5 years. Nor did Keegan. My prediction is that if GS gets that kind of time he will win something. You disagree with me, that is all. Don't call me a child because I don't agree with you. You said Souness had won a cup, i pointed out Bobby won things, neither did it at NUFC so i fail to see why you are mentioning what Souness won but not Bobby. Keegan didn't win a trophy, he did however tale ateam in complete ruin get them promoted and playing some of the bets football the game has ever witnessed and withing a couple of games and crap refreees of winning the title, somethign Souness will never achieve. I said only a child could fail to see that Souness is lacking tactically, if you can't see it i assume you are a child or a very underdevloped adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Looking inside from out, I can't understand the amount of stick Souness got. Half of the stick he got came before he even had a game. Fat Freddy was daft to back Robson last year but then sack him after 3 games which gave Souness no time whatsoever. Although he was maybe on the verge of the sack he did get Blackburn to 6th playing great football and winning a cup on the way. Newcastle were in a bit of a mess 12 months ago but Souness had a good run last year before fading away. He's got rid of the dickheads - Bellamy and Robert to name two and brought in some excellent players - Owen, Luque, Emre and Parker. I lost so much respect for Souness when he was manager with us but can't help that your fans have been far too hard on him. Just an outside opinion like. 24625[/snapback] You're definitely right about people being too hard on him when he first came. A lot of people had made their minds up before he'd even managed one game. To be fair the jury is still out, but he certainly wasn't given a fair crack of the whip by a lot of people. 24634[/snapback] Definitley mate. I think Parker, Luque and Emre are collectivley better signings than Owen for £17m but even last week Souness was being called every name under the sun? The team was booed off on Sunday and the Souness out campaign continued. Yet suddenly signing Owen sounds as if everyone thinks your troubles will go. They won't. He's forging an excellent first team (squad ain't great) and brought in players to play good football and he's won a HUGE PR battle with the signing of Owen but things wont click into place overnight. Owen will have a miserable time feeding off scraps (he did that enough after 2001 with Houllier). Newcastle need some patience I think. I've backed you for 6th place personally. 24646[/snapback] Patience is one of the key ingredients to a successful side IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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