Roeder: We're not in relegation fight

[Isegrim 10035]

I'm very interested in the "right" answer to this, although I don't believe there is one.

 

I've just given you it. It's fairly obvious to me. "Yes, with 7 points between us and the relegation zone, you would have to say we're being sucked into a relegation battle and we need to pull ourselves clear before things get any worse."

 

He's fooling nobody (except you, it seems ) by saying that we aren't.

 

 

We're currently 11th so that mean HALF THE LEAGUE IS IN A RELEGATION BATTLE!!!!!!

 

 

 

Yes lose a few more and we may genuinely BE in a relegation battle (which would be a good reason to BOOST morale not DESTROY it I'd have thought - maddness I know )

 

 

 

 

 

Are you really saying "half the league is in a relegation battle"?

What is so funny about half the league actually being in a relegation battle?

 

 

 

Is that really how you would describe the league at the moment?

 

Potentially it's "true" if the entire lower half of the league loses all its matches (which is of course impossible as when they play each other as some will then some must at least draw).

 

But in reality it is not the case at all, only for the most pants on the head hysteria ravings.

There are seven games remaining. In those seven games Sheffield and Charlton have to win 6 or 7 points more than us (with Sheffield playing us at home). This means they have overall to do better than us in 2/3 of the remaining games. Maybe not very likely, but a clear possibility looking at how much ground especially Charlton made up recently. The majority of the rest of the teams are just one match day away to overtake us in the table.

 

The same scenario applies for every other team of the bottom half of the table. So no team is safe so far with only few games to go. Ergo all of the teams face the not improbable possibility of relegation if they don't get the necessary results.

 

Stating otherwise is just lalaing and not accepting the harsh facts of a league table.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Isegrim

[Guest alex]

 

 

Oh and I notice (as usual) that as you can't refute what I say you do the standard then and try to have a go a me personally instead.

Err, I've got a different opinion on what Roeder should say. And I called you argumentative - now try and refute that

 

 

As I said you lose the argument and so attack the person, time and time and time again.

Are you serious?

I admit I've called you boring and argumentative. Irrefutable tbh.

 

Yep that's what I've just said, you lose the arguement and start on the person instead, you do it loads tbh.

And you're insisting you've won an argument regardless. True to form. The reason I haven't 'proved you wrong' is - I can't. In my opinion we are in a relegation dog fight, you disagree.

 

That wasn't what we were disagreeing about until you tried to MAKE it so.

I still disagree on what we were originally arguing about, which is also opinion based and not something either one of us can prove, so I don't see what you mean there either.

[ewerk 31641]

 

Indeed it is not (and it's not a just a case of Newcastle vs. Charlton as the hysteria in here suggests - half the league is in that "relegation battle" with us ).

 

And as I said if we lose the next two games and others win and if Roeder THEN says what he said NOW the comments in this thread would make fair points.

 

But unless this board is full of Mystic Meg's offspring I'm fairly sure it hasn't happened yet, and castigating him for something that hasn't happened is bizarre IMO.

 

The point is that we're not yet in a serious relegation dog fight but our next 5 fixtures are Sheff Utd (A), Arsenal (H), Portsmouth (A), Chelsea (H) and Reading (A) and tbh given our current form I can't see us picking up much from these games while the teams below us have started to.

 

IMO Roeder should have acknowledged this fact when asked are we in a relegation dogfight with something along the lines of "well we're not yet but unless we begin to pick up points soon there is a danger that we could be". By pretty much saying we're safe from relegation while being out of European contention if effectively saying that we've fuck all to play for this season and isn't the right sort of thing for the players to be hearing.

[Fop 1]

I think Roeder has very little reserves of inner strength you can see by his body language and his inability to inluence matches from the touchline. Without wanting to be alarmist he really is the worst person to have in charge if we get into a survival battle. And a survival battle it certainly will be. Our debt is running at £80m and we are losing money monthly...If we fall out of the PL that will be the end of us for a decade. Roeder needs to stop all this media leaked patter and roll his sleaves up.

 

I am worried because the 'the players playing for their future' (his first strategy) hasn't worked and there are one or two good senior players who will be considering if they can really be arsed with all this in the summer.

 

We are at THE crossroads all ths signs are there and this is no time to be blase.

 

There I've said it.

 

Agree. The last thing you want when you are in this position is a manager like Roeder, he hasn't got the courage or intelligence to change things. And being blase about our situation is tantamount to suicide.

 

Again I wouldn't call what he said "blasé", positive yes, a bit too positive? Maybe.

 

And I still believe no answer would be an acceptable answer here (even genuinely no answer at all al la McClaren).

 

An acceptable answer to me would be:

 

a) Say nothing, or

 

b ) Admit we have a problem and stress how vital it is to take it seriously. And apologise for the state we're in.

 

He hasn't done either. And claiming that in the home leg of the AZ game we played our best football in years makes him look like an even bigger tit, as is stating the fucking obvious that teams below us have less points. Not impressed by the implied criticism of the fans either.

 

 

Again a) is ignoring the press.... only Ferguson and sometimes the special one really gets away with that (and even he has to send someone to talk to them instead most of the time).

 

And isn't really that much different to what he's said only putting it in a positive light rather than a negative one.

 

 

 

 

As for the AZ game being the “best seen at St James's Park for several years” I dunno, but having said that there’s not been that much to choose from in the last 2-3 year has there?

 

The fan stuff may well be ill considered though, but even there you can see probably see why he’s said it, even though in that case it may well have been better to have made a non-answer to the question.

[David Kelly 1299]

I think Roeder has very little reserves of inner strength you can see by his body language and his inability to inluence matches from the touchline. Without wanting to be alarmist he really is the worst person to have in charge if we get into a survival battle. And a survival battle it certainly will be. Our debt is running at £80m and we are losing money monthly...If we fall out of the PL that will be the end of us for a decade. Roeder needs to stop all this media leaked patter and roll his sleaves up.

 

I am worried because the 'the players playing for their future' (his first strategy) hasn't worked and there are one or two good senior players who will be considering if they can really be arsed with all this in the summer.

 

We are at THE crossroads all ths signs are there and this is no time to be blase.

 

There I've said it.

 

Agree. The last thing you want when you are in this position is a manager like Roeder, he hasn't got the courage or intelligence to change things. And being blase about our situation is tantamount to suicide.

 

Again I wouldn't call what he said "blasé", positive yes, a bit too positive? Maybe.

 

And I still believe no answer would be an acceptable answer here (even genuinely no answer at all al la McClaren).

 

An acceptable answer to me would be:

 

a) Say nothing, or

 

b ) Admit we have a problem and stress how vital it is to take it seriously. And apologise for the state we're in.

 

He hasn't done either. And claiming that in the home leg of the AZ game we played our best football in years makes him look like an even bigger tit, as is stating the fucking obvious that teams below us have less points. Not impressed by the implied criticism of the fans either.

There have been a few occasions when he's done this recently (last week he said something like the opinions of people who sit in the crowd don't concern him because they know nothing) and I think it shows how much he's panicing tbh. He really doesn't seem to know what to do.

With regards to the statement he's made regarding relegation, it just makes him look like he's not aware of the situation we're in. Had the smoggies and a couple of other teams below us not lost their last two games we would be a lot lower in the league and the situation would look much bleaker.

Surely he should have been saying that points wise we aren't safe and need to make sure we don't allow ourselves to be sucked down there. I don't think anyone is suggesting he should be saying we're fucked be he needs to show he's aware of what's going on.

[Fop 1]

I'm very interested in the "right" answer to this, although I don't believe there is one.

 

I've just given you it. It's fairly obvious to me. "Yes, with 7 points between us and the relegation zone, you would have to say we're being sucked into a relegation battle and we need to pull ourselves clear before things get any worse."

 

He's fooling nobody (except you, it seems ) by saying that we aren't.

 

 

We're currently 11th so that mean HALF THE LEAGUE IS IN A RELEGATION BATTLE!!!!!!

 

 

 

Yes lose a few more and we may genuinely BE in a relegation battle (which would be a good reason to BOOST morale not DESTROY it I'd have thought - maddness I know )

 

 

 

 

 

Are you really saying "half the league is in a relegation battle"?

What is so funny about half the league actually being in a relegation battle?

 

 

 

Is that really how you would describe the league at the moment?

 

Potentially it's "true" if the entire lower half of the league loses all its matches (which is of course impossible as when they play each other as some will then some must at least draw).

 

But in reality it is not the case at all, only for the most pants on the head hysteria ravings.

There are seven games remaining. In those seven games Sheffield and Charlton have to win 6 or 7 points more than us (with Sheffield playing us at home). This means they have overall to do better than us in 2/3 of the remaining games. Maybe not very likely, but a clear possibility looking at how much ground especially Charlton made up recently. The majority of the rest of the teams are just one match day away to overtake us in the table.

 

The same scenario applies for every other team of the bottom half of the table. So no team is safe so far with only few games to go. Ergo all of the teams face the not improbable possibility of relegation if they don't get the necessary results.

 

Stating otherwise is just lalaing and not accepting the harsh facts of a league table.

 

 

Again there is a HUGE difference between the possibility of relegation (no matter how remote) which is what you are talking about above, and being IN a "relegation battle".

 

 

One is a reasonable worry, the other is just hysteric ravings at this very moment.

[Gemmill 47364]

I'm very interested in the "right" answer to this, although I don't believe there is one.

 

I've just given you it. It's fairly obvious to me. "Yes, with 7 points between us and the relegation zone, you would have to say we're being sucked into a relegation battle and we need to pull ourselves clear before things get any worse."

 

He's fooling nobody (except you, it seems ) by saying that we aren't.

 

 

We're currently 11th so that mean HALF THE LEAGUE IS IN A RELEGATION BATTLE!!!!!!

 

 

 

Yes lose a few more and we may genuinely BE in a relegation battle (which would be a good reason to BOOST morale not DESTROY it I'd have thought - maddness I know )

 

 

 

 

 

Are you really saying "half the league is in a relegation battle"?

What is so funny about half the league actually being in a relegation battle?

 

 

 

Is that really how you would describe the league at the moment?

 

Potentially it's "true" if the entire lower half of the league loses all its matches (which is of course impossible as when they play each other as some will then some must at least draw).

 

But in reality it is not the case at all, only for the most pants on the head hysteria ravings.

There are seven games remaining. In those seven games Sheffield and Charlton have to win 6 or 7 points more than us (with Sheffield playing us at home). This means they have overall to do better than us in 2/3 of the remaining games. Maybe not very likely, but a clear possibility looking at how much ground especially Charlton made up recently. The majority of the rest of the teams are just one match day away to overtake us in the table.

 

The same scenario applies for every other team of the bottom half of the table. So no team is safe so far with only few games to go. Ergo all of the teams face the not improbable possibility of relegation if they don't get the necessary results.

 

Stating otherwise is just lalaing and not accepting the harsh facts of a league table.

 

 

Again there is a HUGE difference between the possibility of relegation (no matter how remote) which is what you are talking about above, and being IN a "relegation battle".

 

 

One is a reasonable worry, the other is just hysteric ravings at this very moment.

 

Do you not bore yourself with this semantics based hair-splitting tedium? You're like something off the Fast Show.

[Fop 1]

 

Indeed it is not (and it's not a just a case of Newcastle vs. Charlton as the hysteria in here suggests - half the league is in that "relegation battle" with us ).

 

And as I said if we lose the next two games and others win and if Roeder THEN says what he said NOW the comments in this thread would make fair points.

 

But unless this board is full of Mystic Meg's offspring I'm fairly sure it hasn't happened yet, and castigating him for something that hasn't happened is bizarre IMO.

 

The point is that we're not yet in a serious relegation dog fight

 

Indeed.

 

but our next 5 fixtures are Sheff Utd (A), Arsenal (H), Portsmouth (A), Chelsea (H) and Reading (A) and tbh given our current form I can't see us picking up much from these games while the teams below us have started to.

 

Aye there’s some tough ones certainly, but there’s also some would could win and wouldn’t be unreasonable to hope to win or at least draw.

 

 

IMO Roeder should have acknowledged this fact when asked are we in a relegation dogfight with something along the lines of "well we're not yet but unless we begin to pick up points soon there is a danger that we could be". By pretty much saying we're safe from relegation while being out of European contention if effectively saying that we've fuck all to play for this season and isn't the right sort of thing for the players to be hearing.

 

Well he’s not saying that, he’s saying his goal is to climb the table (which is a reasonable goal in £££ terms).

 

And again I’m far from sure saying we’re in a relegation battle will spur the players on when they may look at it and say “Hmm… we are?”, I’d have thought that is the sort of thing that could really backfire if you have later go “Ok look now we are in a relegation battle… and I really really mean it this time lads”.

 

In the end he’s talking about the team sorting itself out and winning and it’s a scary situation when that is deemed lunacy for a manager.

[Guest alex]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

[Fop 1]

I'm very interested in the "right" answer to this, although I don't believe there is one.

 

I've just given you it. It's fairly obvious to me. "Yes, with 7 points between us and the relegation zone, you would have to say we're being sucked into a relegation battle and we need to pull ourselves clear before things get any worse."

 

He's fooling nobody (except you, it seems ) by saying that we aren't.

 

 

We're currently 11th so that mean HALF THE LEAGUE IS IN A RELEGATION BATTLE!!!!!!

 

 

 

Yes lose a few more and we may genuinely BE in a relegation battle (which would be a good reason to BOOST morale not DESTROY it I'd have thought - maddness I know )

 

 

 

 

 

Are you really saying "half the league is in a relegation battle"?

What is so funny about half the league actually being in a relegation battle?

 

 

 

Is that really how you would describe the league at the moment?

 

Potentially it's "true" if the entire lower half of the league loses all its matches (which is of course impossible as when they play each other as some will then some must at least draw).

 

But in reality it is not the case at all, only for the most pants on the head hysteria ravings.

There are seven games remaining. In those seven games Sheffield and Charlton have to win 6 or 7 points more than us (with Sheffield playing us at home). This means they have overall to do better than us in 2/3 of the remaining games. Maybe not very likely, but a clear possibility looking at how much ground especially Charlton made up recently. The majority of the rest of the teams are just one match day away to overtake us in the table.

 

The same scenario applies for every other team of the bottom half of the table. So no team is safe so far with only few games to go. Ergo all of the teams face the not improbable possibility of relegation if they don't get the necessary results.

 

Stating otherwise is just lalaing and not accepting the harsh facts of a league table.

 

 

Again there is a HUGE difference between the possibility of relegation (no matter how remote) which is what you are talking about above, and being IN a "relegation battle".

 

 

One is a reasonable worry, the other is just hysteric ravings at this very moment.

 

Do you not bore yourself with this semantics based hair-splitting tedium? You're like something off the Fast Show.

 

 

Oh an emoticon AND a personal attack in one reply!

 

My you're out doing yourself, I feel so very wanted now.

[Fop 1]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

 

Again can't win the argument = you resort to attacking the person.

[Gemmill 47364]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Are the Open University still hiring? You missed your calling tbh.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Gemmill

[Guest alex]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

 

Again can't win the argument = you resort to attacking the person.

Did you post that just to prove me right?

[Park Life 71]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

[Guest alex]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Are the Open University still hiring? You missed your calling tbh.

That just proved you lost this argument btw.

[Renton 22599]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Are the Open University still hiring? You missed your calling tbh.

 

[Fop 1]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Heh I see you've given up entirely on the point of the thread and are just attacking me instead.

 

 

Most amusing considering your whine about me using nasty evil emoticons earlier in the thread.

[ewerk 31641]

 

but our next 5 fixtures are Sheff Utd (A), Arsenal (H), Portsmouth (A), Chelsea (H) and Reading (A) and tbh given our current form I can't see us picking up much from these games while the teams below us have started to.

 

Aye there’s some tough ones certainly, but there’s also some would could win and wouldn’t be unreasonable to hope to win or at least draw.

 

 

Which of those fixtures can you see us winning? Perhaps I'm just being pessimistic but Chelsea, Arsenal and Portsmouth will beat us easily, Sheff Utd I feel will have more motivation and too much will to win for us and I can't see us getting much joy at Reading either.

[Gemmill 47364]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Heh I see you've given up entirely on the point of the thread and are just attacking me instead.

 

 

Most amusing considering your whine about me using nasty evil emoticons earlier in the thread.

 

 

My point for most of the thread has been that you're an irritating, boring tit. I'm grateful that you insist on reinforcing it with every post.

[Guest alex]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Heh I see you've given up entirely on the point of the thread and are just attacking me instead.

 

 

Most amusing considering your whine about me using nasty evil emoticons earlier in the thread.

I thought the issue was about you using the lol emoticon when you'd just posted something that wasn't funny. As in the example you've just given.

[Fop 1]

 

but our next 5 fixtures are Sheff Utd (A), Arsenal (H), Portsmouth (A), Chelsea (H) and Reading (A) and tbh given our current form I can't see us picking up much from these games while the teams below us have started to.

 

Aye there’s some tough ones certainly, but there’s also some would could win and wouldn’t be unreasonable to hope to win or at least draw.

 

 

Which of those fixtures can you see us winning? Perhaps I'm just being pessimistic but Chelsea, Arsenal and Portsmouth will beat us easily, Sheff Utd I feel will have more motivation and too much will to win for us and I can't see us getting much joy at Reading either.

 

Chelsea and Arsenal will of course be tough (although depending on which Arsenal and which Newcastle turn up who knows), but if Roeder (or any manager in his situation) isn't at least looking at getting some points from the others then frankly we may as well just volunteer for the Championship now.

[Fop 1]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Heh I see you've given up entirely on the point of the thread and are just attacking me instead.

 

 

Most amusing considering your whine about me using nasty evil emoticons earlier in the thread.

 

 

My point for most of the thread has been that you're an irritating, boring tit. I'm grateful that you insist on reinforcing it with every post.

 

And again now you've completely given up with the point yet more personal attacks.... fortunately that is acceptable here unlike emoticons.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Chelsea and Arsenal will of course be tough (although depending on which Arsenal and which Newcastle turn up who knows), but if Roeder (or any manager in his situation) isn't at least looking at getting some points from the others then frankly we may as well just volunteer for the Championship now.

 

Hey, I'm sure Roeder does want to win every game, but can you see this side the way they're playing now beating anyone? I can't.

[Fop 1]

Personal attack! Morale highground response in the post tbh.

 

Seriously though, I'm falling asleep. "Possibility of relegation" vs. "Relegation battle" ffs. Fop man, have a word with yourself!

 

What's the specific formula for "Relegation battle"? When does "Possibility of relegation" cross the threshold into "Relegation battle"?

 

[Fop] "If "Relegation Battle" (RB) = Possibility of Relegation (PoR) squared divided by the number of games remaining, we can see that PoR is a key driver for RB but that PoR does not in and of itself necessitate concerns over RB. [/Fop]

 

Heh I see you've given up entirely on the point of the thread and are just attacking me instead.

 

 

Most amusing considering your whine about me using nasty evil emoticons earlier in the thread.

I thought the issue was about you using the lol emoticon when you'd just posted something that wasn't funny. As in the example you've just given.

 

I see you're still at it.

[Guest alex]

Likewise.