Football club cycles

[Guest stevieintoon]

When I was growing up, there were probably 6 names who stood out above all others in European Football. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United, TWP, Juventus, and AC Milan.

 

Throughout history these clubs have had peaks and troughs. Man Utd didn't win the league after 1967, for 26 years, but everyone knew it would come. Real Madrid didn't become European Champions for 32 years till 1998, but everyone knew it would happen. TWP haven't won the league since 1990, but everybody knows it will happen again.

 

AC Milan for me are a classic club. People think Juventus are the biggest club in Italy. I don't. It's AC Milan all the way for me. Juventus averaging 25,000 last season in Serie A, "yes but they could sell out, Bari, Catania, Genoa full of Juve fans if they played at home there." Who gives a fuck. Local support is the lifeblood of any club, and generally AC Milan have always had the best gates, plus they've had more European success, and for my money the best side Serie A has produced in my life time (87-96). Fair enough in 3 of those seasons they didn't win Serie A, but they were always class, Desailly, Donadoni, Maldini, Gullit, van Basten, Boban, Savicevic, Rijkaard, Baresi, Costacurta, ye naa ye could be looking at the best side of the last 30 year there ye naa. Anyway George Weah came in, to eventually replace the likes of Boban, and was sensational. Then Juve had a slight period of dominance, primarily due to a few body blows to the side. Gullit fucked off in 93, and the likes of Tassotti were just getting too old.

 

The like of Jens Lehmann, who was an utter flop, and Oliver Bierhoff, came in and couldn't fill the shirts of their predescessors. I remember Leeds giving Milan the run around at Elland Road, and thinking is this the great AC Milan (Dida's still shit by the way for anyone who remembers Bowyer's goal that night).

 

My point is AC Milan have had two cycles in the last 20 years. Their second one came as everyone knew it would, with Sheva, Gattuso, Pirlo, Kaka, Rui Costa and the likes, which culminated in them arguably being THE force in European football in the last 5 years.

 

Now a lot of that side has gone, the heart has been ripped out of it, Gattuso isn't there for some reason maybe he's injured, Pirlo's decent, but as has been pointed out on numerous occasions, they now only have Kaka, who is a truely special player. They're a club that in the recent past have had 7, 8 and 9 special players in their starting line up.

 

Tonight AC Milan trail Inter by over 30 points in Serie A, they have one star, where Shevchenko stood, there is the hopeless Alberto Gilardino, where once Rijkaard, Desailly, and Gattuso once mopped up in front of the back four, there is now Cristian Brocchi. It could be said they're in a mess. If you look at it though, they're in a mess and they're in the last eight of the best competition in the world, they have, for my money, the best Brazilian. I think it's a pretty safe bet to say AC Milan won't win the Champions League this season. However I can say with a degree of certainty, Milan will begin a new cycle, they'll win Serie A again, they'll build and become the best team in Europe in the near future. I know this because despite the current playing staff, the clubs mentality is never to accept second best, always strive to be number one, have the best youth system, signing the best players, having the best coach. They are a true great club who will be back stronger than ever.

 

This is the difference between those clubs and Newcastle United. They're winners. We're losers. The whole thing is about mentality. Their fans accept nothing but the best, we accept medicrity. Their board demand the best, our board settle for being just competing. It's got absolutely fuck all to do with fans or money because we're not light years behind any of them in this respect, and until we start cycles of our own, and our last was in the fifties, while changing our mentality, we'll always be shit.

[Baggio 0]

Excellent post that Stevie.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Baggio

[nufc4ever 0]

Great stuff.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I do find it fascinating that some clubs can keep that winning mentality (they know how to win trophies if you like, don't let pressure effect them) no matter how many changes of players/ managers/ back-room staff they have. Other clubs (ourselves included) can throw money around until the cows come home and never win anything because we lack that mental edge.

 

By the way Stevie, make sure you're listening to H&J at about half three tomorrow, I'm pretty sure they do Clever Trevor on thursdays.

[Tom 14020]

Yep

[Guest stevieintoon]

I do find it fascinating that some clubs can keep that winning mentality (they know how to win trophies if you like, don't let pressure effect them) no matter how many changes of players/ managers/ back-room staff they have. Other clubs (ourselves included) can throw money around until the cows come home and never win anything because we lack that mental edge.

 

By the way Stevie, make sure you're listening to H&J at about half three tomorrow, I'm pretty sure they do Clever Trevor on thursdays.

Clevor Trevor is no more. They've sacked it for good.

 

It was mentioned last week.

[Bizza 105]

Time for a blonde moment...

 

 

Who are TWP?

[nufc4ever 0]

It's Liverpool, but I dunno what it stands for.

 

The whinging pricks?

[Renton 22047]

Canny post Stevie. Tidy that up a bit and cut out the piss taking of your favourite Merseyside club () and you could probably get it published in tf or the like.

[Guest stevieintoon]

Canny post Stevie. Tidy that up a bit and cut out the piss taking of your favourite Merseyside club () and you could probably get it published in tf or the like.

Who writes for TF on here like?

[Renton 22047]

Canny post Stevie. Tidy that up a bit and cut out the piss taking of your favourite Merseyside club () and you could probably get it published in tf or the like.

Who writes for TF on here like?

 

Don't know if anyone does, although I see Paully does, who used to post here. I'm guessing they accept contributions, and a comparison of Newcastle with the successful clubs in England and Europe, and possible reasons for this, is as worthy as some of the stuff they publish.

[Guest stevieintoon]

Canny post Stevie. Tidy that up a bit and cut out the piss taking of your favourite Merseyside club () and you could probably get it published in tf or the like.

Who writes for TF on here like?

 

Don't know if anyone does, although I see Paully does, who used to post here. I'm guessing they accept contributions, and a comparison of Newcastle with the successful clubs in England and Europe, and possible reasons for this, is as worthy as some of the stuff they publish.

I'm not arsed about appearing in fanzines, I just like writing about football and here is as good a place to do it as any, seeing as though the other lot of banned me again for a bit of harmless fun.

[Wullie 0]

Very good post that Stevie, enjoyed it. You're spot on too.

 

Was thinking a similar thing recently about sunderland, they're a good example of this on a smaller, more recent level. How many other clubs could go down twice with a record low points total, and just bounce straight back up? They went down with 19 points, flogged off every single one of their Premiership standard players, totally penniless and yet it was play-offs then promotion again, winning the league into the bargain.

 

The players who got them promoted two seasons ago were shite, that's why they went down with 15 points the season after, but those players walked away with the Championship under McCarthy. It's like the club just knows it's bigger than the Championship, no matter who they have on the playing staff. I think we'll see them in the Premiership next year too, straight back from a 15 point season. Hopefully their cycle will continue and they'll get 11 next.

 

I'm sure we all wonder where we'd be today if Sir Leslie had put any of those chances past Schmeichel that night.

[geordieshandy 0]

It's Liverpool, but I dunno what it stands for.

 

The whinging pricks?

 

The Wall Pushers

[Guest alex]

Used to love watching AC Milan on Football Italia. I also had a soft spot for Juve which came about from Platini playing for them when I was a nipper more than the black and white stripes but they were frequently dull as fuck to watch in the 90s. Stevie's right about their local support too. You could argue they aren't the biggest club in Turin.

Getting back to Milan, the early 90's vintage with the likes of Maldini, Costacurta, Donadoni, Ancelotti, Baresi plus the Dutch trio of Gullit, Van Basten and Rijkard (with the 3 foreigners rule) was probably the best club side I've seen.

Stevie's spot on about the mentality too. Could you conceive of a team like Liverpool appointing someone like Roeder, or even indeed Souness (at the time we appointed him, with his track record, rather than when they did when he was a former great)? Not a chance.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

If you've had recent success or dominance you're more likely to entice the best players as they know they've got a chance to win something. Your past successes also mean you can afford them. Chelsea are a different kettle of fish like, the only ones you could argue have 'bought' the title rather than built up to it.

 

I have to agree like, when I was a young un AC Milan were the best team in the world. As an aside, I see Baresi is running a soccer school up here in the summer. Apparently his agent is from Newcastle and he's visited the city several times. Proper player.

[David Kelly 1260]

This is why our whole club needs a shake up tbh. I don't feel that we have any winners here at all behind the scenes or in the management.

This filters down to the players and is why we always feel we are second best against the top teams.

Abramovic (or whoever he put in charge of it) knew exactly what he was doing when he took over at Chelski. He brought in Kenyon who has the very best winning mentality from being at Manure and then they brought in Mourino who (as it's blatently obvious to see) has all of the confidence and winning attitude in the world.

The big European clubs are run in the right way getting winners in place in all positions throughout the club. Shepherd has tried to lift us up there by splashing out big money on players like Shearer and Owen or bringing in a high profile manager like Guilit or Dagleish but he has never understood that we needed people in all positions not just one or two if we were going to make that transition.

[tinofbeans 91]

was always a fiorentina fan myself although my 2 favourite ever serie a players were savicevic and boban.

 

best dribbler and best technical player in their positions i've seen. the 1994 european cup final those 2 ran the show.

 

great post by steve.

[Guest alex]

Savicevic had loads of skill like. Also, Boban was immense. He did things so quickly - with one or two touches when others would have dwelt on the ball. Amazing vision.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I've still got the videos they released in the house. With Gazza and James Richardson (with full head of hair) sitting by the pool and introducing the best goals of the season. Anyone remember Gazzas last minute winning header in the Rome derby? Class.

[Fop 1]

This is the difference between those clubs and Newcastle United. They're winners. We're losers.

 

Well tbf a major difference between NUFC and most of those clubs, its that they don't just have financial backing, but direct or indirect political backing too.

 

That can make a big difference in a lot of situations, especially in getting yourself out of the shit after a bad period.

[Guest stevieintoon]

This is the difference between those clubs and Newcastle United. They're winners. We're losers.

 

Well tbf a major difference between NUFC and most of those clubs, its that they don't just have financial backing, but direct or indirect political backing too.

 

That can make a big difference in a lot of situations, especially in getting yourself out of the shit after a bad period.

I can't remember TWP or Man Utd getting too much political backing.

[ChezGiven 0]

Aye two words. Silvio Berlusconi. 1986 - 2004.

 

Great post though stevie.

[Footyfan 0]

stevieintoon, that's a very well written article and a great read, well done. You should write more like this without showing your hate for the redshite which takes something away from your writing, but that's only my opinion and your article to do what you like with. Good insight though and spot on about AC, an enjoyable read.

[snakehips 0]

Regarding the 30 pt difference between AC and Inter, is that not largely down to the points deduction following the scandal ??

 

George Weah was a sensational striker. I seem to recall another team having an agreement with PSG to buy him first.

 

Liverpool got lucky when they got Shankly. They then followed up that with Paisley (whose knighthood is long overdue imo). The years of Liverpool sweeping all before them cemented their name in football supporters' and players' brains for evermore which makes them an attractive propositon for players/managers. If NUFC had got Shankly then maybe we would be in the posision they are in now as I don't really see them as being a much bigger club than NUFC at the time Shankly got the job.