Official Formula 1 thread

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

So has formula 1 now officially overtaken heavyweight boxing as the biggest laughing stock in world sport?

Shameful if the title is decided in the stewards office or an appeals court. Approaching WWF levels of farce.

[Meenzer 15716]

It hasn't been, thankfully.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7055442.stm

 

Of course, you could argue that, retrospectively, the decision to put Alonso back five places on the grid in Hungary means it kind of has... it's all academic now though.

[Sima 0]

Brundle hit the nail on the head when it suddenly dawned on him that they were bringing Lewis in for a 3rd stop. What the hell were they thinking because had it not been needed he'd have been ahead of Rosberg & Kubica at the end and therefore would be World Champion now.

 

Sima, I don't know what the fuck you're going on about but would you like to point out where Brundle was praying for a crash? He might have suggested that for Lewis to have a chance he'd need one of the people in front of him to drop out. To suggest that a ex-F1 driver would pray for a crash is ridiculous. You're an idiot at times...

 

Err, his constant mentioning of Rosberg and Kubica ahead of Hamilton.

 

If there was to be contact....If there was to be contact.

 

Basically willing it to happen.

 

Aye he mentioned that if one of them dropped out - no mention of contact.

 

Brundle's a bloke who sat behind the wheel of an F1 car for 12 years and so a number of his rivals killed in accidents (Bellof, De Angelis & Senna spring to mind), he would never will for an accident to occur - that's something that the JCL fans look out for...

 

Eh? He mentioned contact about five or six times.

 

Hamilton would have needed two of them to drop out though btw. So you basically saying Brundle doesn't have a clue either way?

[Meenzer 15716]

Only watched the highlights on late-night ITV, but he definitely made a comment when they were sparring for 4th place along the lines of "Wouldn't it be ironic [sic] if they took each other out and Hamilton won the title that way?". I assume he wasn't exactly being malicious about it though. Just British.

[Shearergol 0]

Brundle hit the nail on the head when it suddenly dawned on him that they were bringing Lewis in for a 3rd stop. What the hell were they thinking because had it not been needed he'd have been ahead of Rosberg & Kubica at the end and therefore would be World Champion now.

 

Sima, I don't know what the fuck you're going on about but would you like to point out where Brundle was praying for a crash? He might have suggested that for Lewis to have a chance he'd need one of the people in front of him to drop out. To suggest that a ex-F1 driver would pray for a crash is ridiculous. You're an idiot at times...

 

Err, his constant mentioning of Rosberg and Kubica ahead of Hamilton.

 

If there was to be contact....If there was to be contact.

 

Basically willing it to happen.

 

Aye he mentioned that if one of them dropped out - no mention of contact.

 

Brundle's a bloke who sat behind the wheel of an F1 car for 12 years and so a number of his rivals killed in accidents (Bellof, De Angelis & Senna spring to mind), he would never will for an accident to occur - that's something that the JCL fans look out for...

 

 

He did mention contact, 2 or 3 times. He even said "well that was the collision we needed to happen" when Kubica managed to take 2 places due to the other 2 fucking up.

 

I thought at the time that Brundle was on dodgy ground.

 

Great result by the way

[Craig 6700]

It hasn't been, thankfully.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7055442.stm

 

Of course, you could argue that, retrospectively, the decision to put Alonso back five places on the grid in Hungary means it kind of has... it's all academic now though.

 

Hmmm.. only it might not be concluded. McLaren have appealed.

 

The FIA regulations stipulate that no fuel can be more than 10deg C below ambient.

 

Reports are that Kubica's measurements at his three pit stops were 14deg, 13deg & 13 deg below ambient and that Rosberg's were 13deg & 12deg below.

 

It shouldn't matter if there is any performance advantage or not, if the limit has been breached, action MUST be taken. That's like saying a driver was over the drink-drive limit but seeing as he wasn't driving dangerously, we'll let him off........ludicrous!

 

The whole 'going to appeal' thing is very unsettling but I think McLaren have a right to do so. They've been shafted on many decisions this year (not least the Australian GP when the FIA later admitted Ferrari were running an illegal car but did nothing about it) and let's not forget, with his decision to tell the FIA about what was going on internally at McLaren, Ron put the good of the sport before himself and his team...

 

The BMW and Williams cars were illegal and action needs to be take either in the form of the being excluded from the results or, more likely, a financial punishment. I think it'd be unfair on Raikkonen to take the crown from him now and given the fuck ups in China & Brazil, Hamilton/McLaren threw it away and really don't deserve it handed back to them.

 

I do find it funny how the BAR fuel issue from 2005 isn't getting mentioned.

 

Great comments by Damon Hill for what its worth.

[Meenzer 15716]

You assume any performance advantage would have been minimal in the grand scheme of things, but I do take the point. I can see them reflecting the McLaren punishment by excluding Williams and BMW from the race results but not their drivers.

[luckyluke 2]

Alonso not happy that McClaren are appealing, quelle surprise.

[Happy Face 29]

Alonso not happy that McClaren are appealing, quelle surprise.

 

Seen Alonso's comments?

 

"If he wins the title because of this it wouldn't be fair. I'd be embarrassed for this sport.

 

"McLaren got it wrong, they lost the championship for the mistaken decisions they made in the second part of the season.

 

"It isn't a secret that they haven't helped me much. It wasn't a very well-organised season from the point of view of the management.

 

"There was no sensation of being a team and the result speaks for itself.

 

"Each person will have to draw their own lessons from this season but if we had taken a different approach we would have obtained different results."

 

"In the last few races my hands and feet were tied. I had no power to make decisions. I had to race as they told me.

 

"McLaren lost and Ferrari did a better job than anyone else."

 

I agree about the sport becoming an embarrasment, it already is.....to a large degree due to this little fucker himself.

 

Sat there and flat out lied about his involvement in getting info on other teams. He's got some face.

[RlCO 0]

More front than Brighton.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I have to say although I'm disappointed for Hamilton, especially as he seemed to have it in the bag, I'm delighted for Raikkonen

[Craig 6700]

Alonso not happy that McClaren are appealing, quelle surprise.

 

Seen Alonso's comments?

 

"If he wins the title because of this it wouldn't be fair. I'd be embarrassed for this sport.

 

"McLaren got it wrong, they lost the championship for the mistaken decisions they made in the second part of the season.

 

"It isn't a secret that they haven't helped me much. It wasn't a very well-organised season from the point of view of the management.

 

"There was no sensation of being a team and the result speaks for itself.

 

"Each person will have to draw their own lessons from this season but if we had taken a different approach we would have obtained different results."

 

"In the last few races my hands and feet were tied. I had no power to make decisions. I had to race as they told me.

 

"McLaren lost and Ferrari did a better job than anyone else."

 

I agree about the sport becoming an embarrasment, it already is.....to a large degree due to this little fucker himself.

 

Sat there and flat out lied about his involvement in getting info on other teams. He's got some face.

 

To be fair to him, he never lied about it... He tried to call Ron Dennis' bluff in what I can only consider to be some half-arsed attempt to get preferentional treatment within the team and the McLaren boss sold him down the river..

 

I never had much time for Ron in the past but he won a shit-load of respect from me when squealed on Alonso.

[Happy Face 29]

To be fair to him, he never lied about it... He tried to call Ron Dennis' bluff in what I can only consider to be some half-arsed attempt to get preferentional treatment within the team and the McLaren boss sold him down the river..

 

I never had much time for Ron in the past but he won a shit-load of respect from me when squealed on Alonso.

 

Didn't he deny any knowledge of what was going on in interviews?

[Craig 6700]

He declined to make comment which is a bit different to denying it...

[Meenzer 15716]

Alonso secures exit from McLaren

 

Former world champion Fernando Alonso has left McLaren after negotiating an early release from his contract.

 

McLaren and Alonso have had an acrimonious relationship this season and a McLaren statement said that both parties had "agreed to move on".

 

Alonso is free to join another team, his agent Luis Garcia Abad told the Spanish media, adding that neither party would pay a financial penalty.

 

Red Bull and Renault are the favourites to sign him for next season.

 

And BBC Sport understands Red Bull are the more likely option.

 

Alonso's relationship with McLaren soured following a series of rows with team boss Ron Dennis this season.

 

It is not known who would replace Alonso as Lewis Hamilton's team-mate, but Williams's Nico Rosberg and Renault's Heikki Kovalainen are the favourites.

 

Alonso finished 2007 tied on points with team-mate Lewis Hamilton and only one adrift of Raikkonen.

 

He joined the team this season on a three-year contract worth a total of 50 million euro (£34.7m).

 

But he spent much of his first season at McLaren under a cloud.

 

Initial misgivings about the level of support McLaren were giving to Hamilton, who was in his debut season this year, soon degenerated into a series of rows with Dennis.

 

These became public in the course of the spy scandal that rocked the sport this season, when McLaren were fined $100m (£49.2m) and thrown out of the constructors' championship after being found guilty of being in possession of confidential Ferrari documents.

 

Alonso became central to the row when, in a row with Dennis at the Hungarian Grand Prix in August, he threatened to reveal incriminating e-mails to governing body the FIA.

 

Although Alonso soon apologised, Dennis had already phoned FIA president Max Mosley himself, starting the chain of events that led to McLaren's punishment.

 

Following those events, the relationship between Hamilton and Alonso also deteriorated, with both saying they would rather not partner the other again for another season.

 

Both men later said the antagonism between them had been overplayed by the media.

 

It has been widely speculated that wherever Alonso ends up next season, it will be for only a year before moving to Ferrari.

 

Ferrari last month extended Felipe Massa's contract to 2010, which appeared to end the possibility of Alonso joining in 2009 because Raikkonen is also contract to the team for another two years.

 

But Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is known to be a fan of Alonso, and said after the conclusion to the championship last month: "Alonso is world-class in every sense.

 

"I have appreciated very much his sportsmanship. He lost by one point and I believe it wasn't his fault."

 

It is possible that a vacancy could be made for Alonso by paying up Massa's contract at the end of next season.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Surely Alonso would find himself in the same situation at Ferrari if they paired him up with Kimi (not being the undisputed number one and focus of the teams attention)?

[Ketsbaia 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7085098.stm

 

Renault have been summoned before Formula One's governing body to answer a charge of possessing confidential McLaren technical information.

 

McLaren were fined $100m (£47.5m) and thrown out of the constructors' championship after being found guilty on a similar charge in September.

 

Renault are to appear before the FIA world motorsport council on 6 December.

 

The information included "the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car", an FIA statement said.

 

The FIA made the announcement on the day it emerged that its inspectors had visited McLaren as part of their investigation to ensure no Ferrari ideas would be on the 2008 McLaren car.

 

An FIA statement said Renault were accused of "unauthorised possession" between September 2006 and October 2007 "of documents and confidential information belonging to McLaren".

 

That, it added, included "but [was] not limited to, the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fuelling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars."

 

The charges levelled against Renault - the first hints of which emerged in September around the time of McLaren's punishment - are remarkably similar to those McLaren faced.

 

FIA president Max Mosley said at the time that the accusations against Renault revolved around an employee who had left McLaren to join Renault and taken the information with him.

 

A Renault spokesman told BBC Sport: "Ever since the matter was brought to our attention, we have acted with complete transparency towards McLaren and the FIA and we will continue to do so."

 

A McLaren spokeswoman said the team would not be commenting on the matter.

 

Renault won the Formula One drivers' and constructors' titles in 2005 and 2006, but failed to win a race in 2007 following the departure of world champion Fernando Alonso to McLaren.

 

The Spaniard is now tipped for a return to the team where he enjoyed his greatest success, although Red Bull are also in the frame to sign him.

 

I expect Flavio to be shot at dawn if true, just because I dislike him intensely.

[Craig 6700]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7085098.stm

 

Renault have been summoned before Formula One's governing body to answer a charge of possessing confidential McLaren technical information.

 

McLaren were fined $100m (£47.5m) and thrown out of the constructors' championship after being found guilty on a similar charge in September.

 

Renault are to appear before the FIA world motorsport council on 6 December.

 

The information included "the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car", an FIA statement said.

 

The FIA made the announcement on the day it emerged that its inspectors had visited McLaren as part of their investigation to ensure no Ferrari ideas would be on the 2008 McLaren car.

 

An FIA statement said Renault were accused of "unauthorised possession" between September 2006 and October 2007 "of documents and confidential information belonging to McLaren".

 

That, it added, included "but [was] not limited to, the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fuelling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars."

 

The charges levelled against Renault - the first hints of which emerged in September around the time of McLaren's punishment - are remarkably similar to those McLaren faced.

 

FIA president Max Mosley said at the time that the accusations against Renault revolved around an employee who had left McLaren to join Renault and taken the information with him.

 

A Renault spokesman told BBC Sport: "Ever since the matter was brought to our attention, we have acted with complete transparency towards McLaren and the FIA and we will continue to do so."

 

A McLaren spokeswoman said the team would not be commenting on the matter.

 

Renault won the Formula One drivers' and constructors' titles in 2005 and 2006, but failed to win a race in 2007 following the departure of world champion Fernando Alonso to McLaren.

 

The Spaniard is now tipped for a return to the team where he enjoyed his greatest success, although Red Bull are also in the frame to sign him.

 

I expect Flavio to be shot at dawn if true, just because I dislike him intensely.

 

You'll probably enjoy this then..... (well the intro at least!)

 

http://www.whizzbang.tv/podcasts/GJOS_Show02.mp3

 

[Ketsbaia 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7085098.stm

 

Renault have been summoned before Formula One's governing body to answer a charge of possessing confidential McLaren technical information.

 

McLaren were fined $100m (£47.5m) and thrown out of the constructors' championship after being found guilty on a similar charge in September.

 

Renault are to appear before the FIA world motorsport council on 6 December.

 

The information included "the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car", an FIA statement said.

 

The FIA made the announcement on the day it emerged that its inspectors had visited McLaren as part of their investigation to ensure no Ferrari ideas would be on the 2008 McLaren car.

 

An FIA statement said Renault were accused of "unauthorised possession" between September 2006 and October 2007 "of documents and confidential information belonging to McLaren".

 

That, it added, included "but [was] not limited to, the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fuelling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars."

 

The charges levelled against Renault - the first hints of which emerged in September around the time of McLaren's punishment - are remarkably similar to those McLaren faced.

 

FIA president Max Mosley said at the time that the accusations against Renault revolved around an employee who had left McLaren to join Renault and taken the information with him.

 

A Renault spokesman told BBC Sport: "Ever since the matter was brought to our attention, we have acted with complete transparency towards McLaren and the FIA and we will continue to do so."

 

A McLaren spokeswoman said the team would not be commenting on the matter.

 

Renault won the Formula One drivers' and constructors' titles in 2005 and 2006, but failed to win a race in 2007 following the departure of world champion Fernando Alonso to McLaren.

 

The Spaniard is now tipped for a return to the team where he enjoyed his greatest success, although Red Bull are also in the frame to sign him.

 

I expect Flavio to be shot at dawn if true, just because I dislike him intensely.

 

You'll probably enjoy this then..... (well the intro at least!)

 

http://www.whizzbang.tv/podcasts/GJOS_Show02.mp3

 

 

Gerld

 

The struggling Honda team have secured a major coup by appointing former Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn as their new team principal.

 

The Englishman, 52, was confirmed in his new role on Monday, with Nick Fry continuing as chief executive.

 

Brawn was the technical mastermind behind Ferrari's unprecedented success in the first half of this decade.

 

Brawn said: "The opportunity to help the team to realise its potential represents a fantastic new challenge."

 

Brawn will be expected to turn Honda from underachievers into a major force.

 

"The team has already done a great job of giving due consideration to its future and has spent a good deal of time putting in place both people and first class engineering resources to achieve its ambitions," he said.

 

Fry described Brawn's appointment as "a very satisfying conclusion to the process of refreshing and revitalising a strong and determined team.

 

"His experience of winning world championships in F1 will be crucial as we seek to put Honda back into championship contention," he added.

 

It is Brawn's first role as team principal, but few inside F1 will doubt he will be a success in the position - as long as Honda's management in Japan allow him free rein to run the team.

 

Brawn joins at the end of the worst season in Honda's modern history.

 

The team produced one of the most uncompetitive cars on the grid this season, with Jenson Button managing only six points and the veteran former Ferrari driver Rubens Barrichello failing to score any at all.

 

That was despite Button giving the team their first win of the modern era in Hungary in 2006.

 

Brawn joining the team will be a huge reassurance to Button, who said at the weekend he would not tolerate another season of underachievement.

 

"The car was a complete dog, and I'm just not interested in racing like this any more," Button said.

 

"I'd love to win the title with Honda but I've got to start winning, and if I don't then I have to be ruthless."

 

However, Brawn will not be able to turn the team around overnight.

 

Next year's Honda car has already been designed, and he will be focusing his initial efforts on reorganising the team to ensure it is competitive in 2009.

 

Nevertheless, it is to be expected that his impact will begin to be felt as the 2008 season progresses.

 

Brawn is hugely highly rated in F1, where he became synonymous with Michael Schumacher.

 

The two were together at Benetton in the early 1990s, winning back-to-back world titles in 1994 and 1995, before both moved to Ferrari in 1996.

 

Their arrival marked a dramatic upturn in the Italian team's fortunes, turning them into world beaters after years in the doldrums.

 

Schumacher finally ended Ferrari's 21-year run without a drivers' title in 2000, the first of five championships in a row.

 

Brawn took a sabbatical from F1 following Schumacher's retirement at the end of 2006, and has been in demand by Red Bull and Toyota as well as Honda.

 

Fry is rumoured to have been chasing Brawn since last spring, but Ferrari had first call on his services.

 

Brawn began talks with his former team in the summer but he was unable to agree a deal to become their team principal.

 

Now those negotiations have failed, he has decided to take on a challenge that will be at least the equal of that he undertook at Ferrari - and Honda will hope he is able to have a similar effect on them.

 

Honda announced that Shuhei Nakamoto, whose controversial appointment as senior technical director led to the departure of the respected Geoff Willis in 2006, will move to a new role.

 

Nakajima will become deputy managing director (technical), reporting to Brawn, and charged with ensuring the F1 team "gains maximum benefit from Honda's research and development operation in Tochigi [in Japan]".

 

I must say, i'm very fucking shocked. They must be offering him an obscene amount of cash.

[Craig 6700]

I'm not shocked at all.... Brawn has always been the man to try to rouse a sleeping giant. Look at the shitty mess that Ferrari were in when he went there for 1997!!

 

He probably is being paid an obsence amount of cash but lets face it, Ferrari could (and probably did) offer more! I salute the bloke for taking the challenge - I only hope that the powers that be will let him do things his way.....

 

Oh yeah and can they fire Nick Fry? ............ preferrably from a cannon? He's got to be the most annoying twat in Formula One - yes, even more so than Flav....

[sammynb 3507]

Its a shame its come to this. Stepney has done good work for the Scuderia for most of the last decade but was unhappy at the re-shuffle after Ross Brawn took his sabbatical. If he wants to leave (for Honda or Toyota probably) the best solution would be to arrange terms of severance (compensation, gardening leave etc) rather than besmirching him. This stuff about him disappearing and being unreachable is clearly bollocks as he booked his flights via Ferrari's travel office!

I was just re-reading the whole Stepney episode from earlier in the year and can I just point out this insightful post from the DR.

So what's the chances of Stepney joining Brawn at Honda?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Stepney

On his return from holiday in the Philippines on July 5, Stepney was interrogated by the Italian police as part of the industrial espionage case. On 6 July Honda F1 released a statement confirming that Stepney and Coughlan approached the team regarding "job opportunities" in June 2007. Since the revelation of Coughlan's involvement in the affair McLaren provided a full set of drawings and development documents to the FIA, detailing all updates made to the team's chassis since the incident occurred at the end of April.

 

On 4 October 2007, in a complete twist to the 2007 Formula One espionage controversy, Nigel Stepney issued a statement claiming that he had received key information about McLaren's set-up, pit-stops, weight distribution and other aspects of various parts of their car when he was still a Ferrari's employee and said that Ferrari had gotten off lightly.

Has it been announced where Ralf is off to?

Force India F1.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I think Ferrari's success this season made it difficult for them to take Brawn back without putting the noses out of joint of the engineers who took on his duties.

 

I thought Todt would move up somewhere into the Fiat empire and Brawn could take on the team principal role, but it looks like that job is going to Stefano Domenicali.

 

I'm sorry a role for Brawn couldn't be found at the Scuderia after the fantastic job he did over the previous decade, but wish him well.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Looks like the year off hasn't done Schumacher any harm...

 

1. M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari 1m21.922s

 

2. BADOER Ferrari 1m22.129s

 

3. DE LA ROSA McLaren 1m22.687s

 

4. KOVALAINEN Renault 1m22.802s

 

5. KUBICA BMW 1m22.883s

 

6. PAFFETT McLaren 1m23.008s

 

7. NAKAJIMA Williams 1m23.187s

 

8. COULTHARD Red Bull 1m23.332s

 

9. TRULLI Toyota 1m23.624s

 

10. HEIDFELD BMW 1m23.671s

 

11. ROSBERG Williams 1m23.847s

 

12. MONTAGNY Toyota 1m23.861s

 

13. VETTEL Toro Rosso 1m24.048s

 

14. ZUBER Super Aguri 1m24.065s

 

15. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso 1m24.193s

 

16. DAVIDSON Super Aguri 1m24.246s

 

17. ROSSITER Honda 1m24.480s

 

18. CHANDHOK Red Bull 1m24.896s

 

19. VAN DER GARDE Force India 1m25.317s

 

20. RODRIGUEZ Force India 1m26.973s

 

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41285

[Craig 6700]

Agree Skol but in terms of driver/car combination he's a class above the others who took part...

 

Would have been very interesting to see how he'd have matched up against Raikkonen & Massa....... but then Schumacher wouldn't have played that game, would he?

 

Total PR stunt IMO, don't think the team will get any benefit from it and in that respect, it's a waste of testing resources IMO.

[Meenzer 15716]

A propos of nothing, I'd love Badoer to get a last shot at a proper drive, though I assume his time has been and gone now. My heart's still broken after the 1999 European. Gotta love Minardi.