Roeder

[Park Life 71]

The more players he has at his disposal, the less sure Roeder is of how best to employ them.

Some of his more 'inspired' decisions have been borne out of necessity - Solano at right-back for example. Also, I doubt if Milner would have played much if everyone had been fit and he's been one of our best players. Ditto Nicky Butt.

 

He is average, that is all I can bring myself to say.

[Fop 1]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

 

 

I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season).

 

Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not.

Next to the money for Duff, he also had the money for Huth (6m) to his disposal. In that respect he was chasing a lost cause by trying to snap up a player who already had opted to play for Boro at a point of time we didn't even had started to make up our mind about targets and entering the market.

And I still think that Hasselbaink for one year on a free would have been a far better option than Sibierski.

 

And going into the season with only one (dodgy) injury-prone left back cannot get excused at all imho.

 

You're expecting 6 million (assuming it WAS there) to go a long way to get a left back, central defender (although not going for Campbell was a huge mistake) and another forward (which still leaves right back and midfield creativity woefully short even without much of an injury list).

 

The other issue is that we're in trouble with wages as it stands (which is worrying as we have a small squad anyway – not so very long ago NUFC had almost 50 professionals on the books), so it's not just signing fees (although obviously that too), but that we have to be able to afford to pay them as well. Which I must admit can be an issue with more established players, sometimes to the point where a fee (or even lack of) isn't the major financial consideration.

 

As I said reality is what is needed in a lot of peoples views.

I have quite often pointed to the wage issue myself, especially that Newcastle can't afford having so many second rate players on huge wages, i.e. Carr, Babayaro etc. (I also listed Butt in the summer).

 

But the thing is that if you want depth into you squad you can't only buy established big names as Roeder is trying to do. Getting cover for 3-4 positions would have been totally possible with 10m to the disposal (Roeder himself admitted going for Huth, so the money must have been there, as well as for Vidkuka and with only Milner bringing money in). A balanced squad would have eased some of the self-made injury problems and put us in a far better position for fighting for a top 6 finish, something that was (is) the target nevertheless. So everything else is failure. That is realism in my opinion.

 

 

With current prices you're not going to get much quality for 4 players with just 10 million to spend and you might end up only mildy further forward if you've got to get rid or 2-3 to afford it.

 

But you're not only assuming the cash is there, but players would happily go and that players would come too.

 

For example say they got rid of Carr and Babayaro (a good idea IMO), would anyone buy them? Would anyone match their wages here? And who would we get to replace them (that are much better and of the "aceptable" quality) assuming we could afford them and they would come here?

 

 

Having said that I don't think Roeder is great in transfers at all, and our scouting network seems non-existant these days.

But equally there's a lot fewer players in the squad now that I think "yeah got to keep him" in a money no object senario than there was a few years ago, in that context barring a handful almost the whole team could be shown the door.

[Renton 22032]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

[Isegrim 9910]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

 

 

I dunno, if he hadn't bought Martins we'd be relegated now IMO. And Duff I'm far from sure was really a Roeder buy (although I expected much more from Duff even with injury - 5 million is looking shockingly expensive for him from what I'd seen of him this season).

 

Plus the table is strange this season, I think a lot of the clubs above us would yoyo next season anyway.... although maybe not.

Next to the money for Duff, he also had the money for Huth (6m) to his disposal. In that respect he was chasing a lost cause by trying to snap up a player who already had opted to play for Boro at a point of time we didn't even had started to make up our mind about targets and entering the market.

And I still think that Hasselbaink for one year on a free would have been a far better option than Sibierski.

 

And going into the season with only one (dodgy) injury-prone left back cannot get excused at all imho.

 

You're expecting 6 million (assuming it WAS there) to go a long way to get a left back, central defender (although not going for Campbell was a huge mistake) and another forward (which still leaves right back and midfield creativity woefully short even without much of an injury list).

 

The other issue is that we're in trouble with wages as it stands (which is worrying as we have a small squad anyway – not so very long ago NUFC had almost 50 professionals on the books), so it's not just signing fees (although obviously that too), but that we have to be able to afford to pay them as well. Which I must admit can be an issue with more established players, sometimes to the point where a fee (or even lack of) isn't the major financial consideration.

 

As I said reality is what is needed in a lot of peoples views.

I have quite often pointed to the wage issue myself, especially that Newcastle can't afford having so many second rate players on huge wages, i.e. Carr, Babayaro etc. (I also listed Butt in the summer).

 

But the thing is that if you want depth into you squad you can't only buy established big names as Roeder is trying to do. Getting cover for 3-4 positions would have been totally possible with 10m to the disposal (Roeder himself admitted going for Huth, so the money must have been there, as well as for Vidkuka and with only Milner bringing money in). A balanced squad would have eased some of the self-made injury problems and put us in a far better position for fighting for a top 6 finish, something that was (is) the target nevertheless. So everything else is failure. That is realism in my opinion.

 

 

With current prices you're not going to get much quality for 4 players with just 10 million to spend and you might end up only mildy further forward if you've got to get rid or 2-3 to afford it.

 

But you're not only assuming the cash is there, but players would happily go and that players would come too.

 

For example say they got rid of Carr and Babayaro (a good idea IMO), would anyone buy them? Would anyone match their wages here? And who would we get to replace them (that are much better and of the "aceptable" quality) assuming we could afford them and they would come here?

 

 

Having said that I don't think Roeder is great in transfers at all, and our scouting network seems non-existant these days.

But equally there's a lot fewer players in the squad now that I think "yeah got to keep him" in a money no object senario than there was a few years ago, in that context barring a handful almost the whole team could be shown the door.

No, Carr and Babayaro are unsellable and big name players will want at least the same wages. I really wonder how the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Reading at al are coping with no players being available for decent prices and possible to attract... Sorry, but the "we couldn't get anyone, nobody good wants to join us" stance is just bullshit.

 

As for assuming of cash being available: We did sign Duff and the manager did admit he went in for Huth. That are enough facts for me proving that Roeder had another 10m cash to his disposal - even after spending 10m on Martins. The lack of transfer funds wasn't the problem last summer, but incompetency in the transfer market.

[Park Life 71]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

 

Excellent point.

[ewerk 31237]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

 

For Reading this season see Wigan last season, the second season is the real test.

[Park Life 71]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

 

For Reading this season see Wigan last season, the second season is the real test.

 

Yeah but we haven't seen Reading's second season yet have we? Unless you have a crystal ball.

[ewerk 31237]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

 

For Reading this season see Wigan last season, the second season is the real test.

 

Yeah but we haven't seen Reading's second season yet have we? Unless you have a crystal ball.

 

Sort of the point I'm trying to make but thanks anyway.

[Renton 22032]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

 

For Reading this season see Wigan last season, the second season is the real test.

 

Would that be the Wigan who just beat us and are only 5 points behind? I appreciate your point, but Wigan and Reading have massively limited resources and are disadvantaged in other ways, such as attracting players. I'd be seriously interested in what Coppell could achieve here, and for me getting the right manager is worth spending whatever it takes.

[Park Life 71]

The investment should have been made in the manager. Reading are proving what a capable manager can do on limited funds.

 

For Reading this season see Wigan last season, the second season is the real test.

 

Yeah but we haven't seen Reading's second season yet have we? Unless you have a crystal ball.

 

Sort of the point I'm trying to make but thanks anyway.

 

They are doing better than us this year with limited funds right? I eagerly await your considered response.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Coppell is a very good manager imo, but he's got no bottle. If Reading do start to struggle, or more likely if the fans now expect them to challenge so midtable puts pressure on him, he'll be gone faster than a chip butty at Eamon Holmes house.

[ewerk 31237]

The point I'm making is that West Ham and Wigan both had great seasons last year after spending less than us and their managers were being lauded but they have both struggled in their second year so its not advisable to judge a manager on one season in the PL as there are other factors to be taken into account other than the manager to explain their first season success.

[Guest alex]

I agree with ewerk. Teams give more respect to teams in their second season up and have had more time to suss out their strengths and weaknesses. The 2nd season can be much harder.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Yep, and fans expectations change. In the first season, they get packed grounds, lots of noise, and big away followings which can help the players raise their game. Second season, the fans expect more and aren't as excited as they were the first. Every games a cup final for Reading this season as it was for Wigan last.

[Renton 22032]

Yep, and fans expectations change. In the first season, they get packed grounds, lots of noise, and big away followings which can help the players raise their game. Second season, the fans expect more and aren't as excited as they were the first. Every games a cup final for Reading this season as it was for Wigan last.

 

True, so what's Roeder's excuse? It's alright slagging off Jewell, but Wigan are onlt 5points below us.

 

I don't think this applies to West Ham either tbh, they were fucked for a variety of non-predictable reasons, not least their board's actions.

[David Kelly 1260]

Whereas every game seems like a LDV Vans Trophy game to us these days!

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I'm not defending Roeder though. I'm just saying, I like Coppell but he has a history of saying 'fuck it' when the fans put him under pressure. With our fans? We'd probably find him washed up on Cullercoats Bay one morning..

[Park Life 71]

Yep, and fans expectations change. In the first season, they get packed grounds, lots of noise, and big away followings which can help the players raise their game. Second season, the fans expect more and aren't as excited as they were the first. Every games a cup final for Reading this season as it was for Wigan last.

 

Alex and Sweet.

 

Yes we know all that. I can cut and paste 300 observations in the football press about first season expectations. And incidentally I broadly agree. The point still stands that they are doing better than us on little money...The questions have to be laid at Roeders door. The one or two players they purchased have been on the button and inventive buys. Is Coppell a better manager I suspect so....We will see next year when Owen moves, Emre leaves and we still don't have a left back and we're lying in 11th. Deep down we are all sceptical about Roeders ability to compete at the highest level I'm sure of this.

[Guest alex]

Yep, and fans expectations change. In the first season, they get packed grounds, lots of noise, and big away followings which can help the players raise their game. Second season, the fans expect more and aren't as excited as they were the first. Every games a cup final for Reading this season as it was for Wigan last.

 

Alex and Sweet.

 

Yes we know all that. I can cut and paste 300 observations in the football press about first season expectations. And incidentally I broadly agree. The point still stands that they are doing better than us on little money...The questions have to be laid at Roeders door. The one or two players they purchased have been on the button and inventive buys. Is Coppell a better manager I suspect so....We will see next year when Owen moves, Emre leaves and we still don't have a left back and we're lying in 11th. Deep down we are all sceptical about Roeders ability to compete at the highest level I'm sure of this.

You should probably try interpreting what people are actually saying a bit better before being so patronising in future

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I may not have made it clear in the several posts I've made in this thread having a go at Roeder, but I'm not defending him.

 

Oh, and Ryan Giggs has just scored.

[Guest alex]

Amazing insight from Parky btw, pointing out Reading are doing better than us on little money. No shit? I could cut and paste the league table as many times as you like

[snakehips 0]

Amazing insight from Parky btw, pointing out Reading are doing better than us on little money. No shit? I could cut and paste the league table as many times as you like

 

[Guest Patrokles]

Silly argument when you consider that Roeder, in half a season, did better than the guys people are praising, and then cautioning about second season syndrome.

[Renton 22032]

Silly argument when you consider that Roeder, in half a season, did better than the guys people are praising, and then cautioning about second season syndrome.

 

You're comparing Roeder's achievement favourably to Coppell's?

 

Patrokles Roeder.

[Guest Patrokles]

Silly argument when you consider that Roeder, in half a season, did better than the guys people are praising, and then cautioning about second season syndrome.

 

You're comparing Roeder's achievement favourably to Coppell's?

 

Patrokles Roeder.

 

It's using your logic.

 

I'm just pointing out a flaw in what was said. If you're going to judge people on first seasons, then what Roeder did for less than half a season, given the state the club were in, is equally impressive.