Roeder

[Gemmill 46182]

It looks like we are satisfied with mid table tbh

 

so long as he's not gettng us relegated we'l keep the useless bastard

 

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough...

 

In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th

 

A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts.

 

Comparing Glenn Roeder to Bobby Robson seems sensible to you?

[Asprilla 96]

It looks like we are satisfied with mid table tbh

 

so long as he's not gettng us relegated we'l keep the useless bastard

 

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough...

 

In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th

 

A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts.

 

Comparing Glenn Roeder to Bobby Robson seems sensible to you?

 

Not a chance...I always wish Robson had come here after Keegan (like most people). I believe he would have won things. All I'm saying is that even for a very good manager it takes time. Roeder isn't doing at all badly for a "crap" manager and he's not bankrupting us in the process.

[Scottish Mag 3]

It looks like we are satisfied with mid table tbh

 

so long as he's not gettng us relegated we'l keep the useless bastard

 

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough...

 

In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th

 

A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts.

 

But we were a bottom half of the league team then anyhoo. We finished 7th last year, surely to go from that to the bottom half of the table cannot be the sign of someone doing that great a job.

[Gemmill 46182]

It looks like we are satisfied with mid table tbh

 

so long as he's not gettng us relegated we'l keep the useless bastard

 

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough...

 

In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th

 

A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts.

 

Comparing Glenn Roeder to Bobby Robson seems sensible to you?

 

Not a chance...I always wish Robson had come here after Keegan (like most people). I believe he would have won things. All I'm saying is that even for a very good manager it takes time. Roeder isn't doing at all badly for a "crap" manager and he's not bankrupting us in the process.

 

Do you not see how you're settling for middle of the road though? "Roeder isn't doing at all badly". You'll have to excuse me for not getting the party poppers out. I agree that "for a very good manager it takes time", but Roeder isn't a very good manager, so all giving him time does is allows us to stagnate further.

 

Steadying the ship equates to becoming average. And that's not good enough.

[Guest alex]

It looks like we are satisfied with mid table tbh

 

so long as he's not gettng us relegated we'l keep the useless bastard

 

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough...

 

In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th

 

A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts.

It was obvious Robson (after what had come before) was moving the club in the right direction. It's less obvious under Roeder I suppose. That's the difference. For the same reason Robson, rightly or wrongly, went. The club (arguably) appeared to be going downhill. And Roeder is doing ok/steadying the ship or whatever. Just like SBR did. The next test is whether or not he can move the club forward next season.

[Isegrim 9910]

It looks like we are satisfied with mid table tbh

 

so long as he's not gettng us relegated we'l keep the useless bastard

 

And to think Robson was sacked because 5th wasn't good enough...

 

In Robson's first two seasons we finished 11th

 

A sensible point? we don't like sensible points in these parts.

It was obvious Robson (after what had come before) was moving the club in the right direction. It's less obvious under Roeder I suppose. That's the difference. For the same reason Robson, rightly or wrongly, went. The club (arguably) appeared to be going downhill. And Roeder is doing ok/steadying the ship or whatever. Just like SBR did. The next test is whether or not he can move the club forward next season.

And it was obvious how Robson was immediately giving the team much more shape and style (I still think if we had beaten Chelsea in the semis, we would have won the cup - I f***ing hate Poyet). The second season went a bit stale, but you could still see things improving and the fact that it only needed two summer signings to totally turn around the club's fortunes was a reflection of this.

 

I've seen nothing to convince me that Roeder will be able to do the same.

[Guest alex]

Aye well, I was trying not to be all 'doom and gloom'. I'm not convinced by GR either though if I'm being honest.

[Asprilla 96]

 

 

Do you not see how you're settling for middle of the road though? "Roeder isn't doing at all badly". You'll have to excuse me for not getting the party poppers out. I agree that "for a very good manager it takes time", but Roeder isn't a very good manager, so all giving him time does is allows us to stagnate further.

 

Steadying the ship equates to becoming average. And that's not good enough.

We'll be able to tell what the board's intentions are when we see how much Roeder gets to spend this summer IMO, but I don't think we're even trying to compete with the top four anymore tbh....

 

I wish we hadn't fucked up, but we did...if we try and spend our way out of trouble in the short term, we'll just end up at square one.

 

I don't see Roeder doing anything really stupid (like Souness falling out with our best striker) he's more of a pragmatist. If in the meantime we develop a decent young squad that starts improving over the next few seasons on very little money he'll have done the right thing for the club.

 

 

A more ambitious manager might not settle for such a limited transfer kitty and we'd be back on the hiring/firing merry-go-round.

 

(Having said that, I don't blame people for being disillusioned when they fork out their £500...as an armchair fan though, I have the benefit of perspective. )

[Asprilla 96]

 

And it was obvious how Robson was immediately giving the team much more shape and style (I still think if we had beaten Chelsea in the semis, we would have won the cup - I f***ing hate Poyet). The second season went a bit stale, but you could still see things improving and the fact that it only needed two summer signings to totally turn around the club's fortunes was a reflection of this.

 

I've seen nothing to convince me that Roeder will be able to do the same.

Don't get me wrong, Robson was a much better manager than Roeder, but is there anyone out there as good as Robson who'd want to manage us right now?

[Gemmill 46182]

(Having said that, I don't blame people for being disillusioned when they fork out their £500...as an armchair fan though, I have the benefit of perspective. )

 

I'm glad you concede that tbh, as I think it's a relevant point. Not wanting to come over all soopafan, but when I read Patrokles "I'm content to remain pragmatic. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc." I'll admit to thinking how much easier it must be to remain pragmatic when it's not costing you the best part of £800 a season to do so.

 

Not having a go here, but that is a lot of money to be "seeing how it goes".

[Isegrim 9910]

 

And it was obvious how Robson was immediately giving the team much more shape and style (I still think if we had beaten Chelsea in the semis, we would have won the cup - I f***ing hate Poyet). The second season went a bit stale, but you could still see things improving and the fact that it only needed two summer signings to totally turn around the club's fortunes was a reflection of this.

 

I've seen nothing to convince me that Roeder will be able to do the same.

Don't get me wrong, Robson was a much better manager than Roeder, but is there anyone out there as good as Robson who'd want to manage us right now?

Of course there are only few Robsons out, but I think there were a lot better options than Roeder who should have went back to the academy. But I doubt we were really scouting the market although there was the perfect scenario for this due to the circumstances last season.

 

"planning"

[Guest alex]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

[Isegrim 9910]

To be honest, if we can't attract a decent and ambitious manager then you have to ask questions as in recent times the funds have always been available for signings. And the idea Roeder has either had 'very little money' or will have in the future is one I don't subscribe to at all. Most managers would kill for the money he had in the summer.

One things that really bothers me about Roeder. On one hand he is speaking about his admiration for Wenger'sskills to unearth young gems and how he has to look for the club's money himself. On the other hand he deems most players of not being good enough and only going for expensive big names and young, vastly overpriced English players.

 

Roeder had a hell of an amount of money to spend (probably something 87 other English clubs would be long for...), I don't think he spent it wisely.

[Guest alex]

That's the point. You can't turn around and say we couldn't attract anyone better because of the limited transfer kitty. Roeder had £15million+ to spend. And, with the new TV deal and season ticket sales I expect a similar amount to be available in the summer (possibly more). How wisely it is spent remains to be seen.

[Albert Kirkey 0]

I like Roeder, think he's a top bloke, but just not a very good manager. He's going to be remembered in the same breath as Richard Dinnis and Willie McFaul not Kevin Keegan and Sir Bobby Robson.

 

I do have sympathy for him working for Fat Fred, but I think he's got too many shortcomings.

 

I would love to see us get Mark Hughes as the next manager. Argumentative taff, no doubt but I think he'll go onto big things as a manager.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I'd just like to add that I would hate to see Roeder sacked and thrown out on his arse. Should be given his Academy job back imo.

[Guest Patrokles]

As for the constant laments that people are settling for mediocrity, I don't think anyone is doing that, long term. But some people want results more quickly than others. If we can progress steadily for a couple of seasons, then we'll be in a far better position to strengthen managerially and in terms of the squad. If we simply chop and change every season, we'll end up truly stagnant.

[Gemmill 46182]

(Having said that, I don't blame people for being disillusioned when they fork out their £500...as an armchair fan though, I have the benefit of perspective. )

 

I'm glad you concede that tbh, as I think it's a relevant point. Not wanting to come over all soopafan, but when I read Patrokles "I'm content to remain pragmatic. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc." I'll admit to thinking how much easier it must be to remain pragmatic when it's not costing you the best part of £800 a season to do so.

 

Not having a go here, but that is a lot of money to be "seeing how it goes".

 

The counter-argument to that is that I'm not forcing you to pay that much, and if you're that certain that Roeder will just deliver poor performances and average results, there's no obligation to renew next year.

 

How is that a counter-argument to what I've said? Of course I could not renew, but I like going to the match.

 

Do you not accept my point that being pragmatic is a lot easier when you haven't handed that much cash over and aren't rocking up every other week to be provided with further evidence of how plainly average our manager is.

[Isegrim 9910]

As for the constant laments that people are settling for mediocrity, I don't think anyone is doing that, long term. But some people want results more quickly than others. If we can progress steadily for a couple of seasons, then we'll be in a far better position to strengthen managerially and in terms of the squad. If we simply chop and change every season, we'll end up truly stagnant.

I don't disagree with that. It's just that there is no need in pretending current developments to be better than they actually are . At the moment we are not progressing, not even going stale, but still going backwards imho. And at the end of last season was the perfect timing for trying to install some stability by scouting the market for an apt manager and strengthen managerially.

[Happy Face 29]

All this stuff about accepting mediocrity and that winds me up a little bit. There's only 4 clubs can get into the Champions league and it's a decade since we batted above our average and automatically qualified for it. A few years earlier it was Leeds that were doing the same, or Norwich before them so we can be grateful for the odd European push when we have a competent manager rather than Nationwide relegation battles. We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

 

When a manager like Souness is producing tepid football, losing regularly and dragging us into a relegation battle, fair enough, get rid. When a manager has rescued us from that battle, took us into Europe, has us heading to the quarter finals, and is only 6 points off that European place again, I'll complain the odd match was shite, but don't see why he should get sacked.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Happy Face

[Gemmill 46182]

As for the constant laments that people are settling for mediocrity, I don't think anyone is doing that, long term. But some people want results more quickly than others. If we can progress steadily for a couple of seasons, then we'll be in a far better position to strengthen managerially and in terms of the squad. If we simply chop and change every season, we'll end up truly stagnant.

I don't disagree with that. It's just that there is no need in pretending current developments to be better than they actually are . At the moment we are not progressing, not even going stale, but still going backwards imho. And at the end of last season was the perfect timing for trying to install some stability by scouting the market for an apt manager and strengthen managerially.

 

Exactly. And is anyone honestly looking forward to the summer transfer window with any hope of us actually making any inroads into improving the current squad? Last summer was a well-documented abortion, and we were all told to wait until January (with Roeder wittering on in early January about FIVE players coming in). We eventually signed one bloke on loan.

 

We need to improve the squad to make progress. Roeder doesn't look to me like a man all that well equipped to improve the squad. Our full-back situation actually defies belief. We are playing with a right winger at right back, and a right footed centre half at left back. And that's not through an injury crisis, that is because we are woefully understaffed in that area. And yet we've done absolutely fuck all to put that right in two transfer windows. It is actually unbelievable when you think about it.

[Tom 14020]

[injuries/] [excuse/] <=''planning''>

[Renton 22032]

All this stuff about accepting mediocrity and that winds me up a little bit. There's only 4 clubs can get into the Champions league and it's a decade since we batted above our average and automatically qualified for it. A few years earlier it was Leeds that were doing the same, or Norwich before them so we can be grateful for the odd European push when we have a competent manager rather than Nationwide relegation battles. We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

 

When a manager like Souness is producing tepid football, loosing regularly and dragging us into a relegation battle, fair enough, get rid. When a manager has rescued us from that battle, took us into Europe, has us heading to the quarter finals, and is only 6 points off that European place again, I'll complain the odd match was shite, but don't see why he should get sacked.

 

Your putting a ridiculously positive spin on it in that last paragraph. Roeder did well last year, but that was partly down to the new manager effect and a lot of help from Shearer imo. Things have been much worse this year. We are NOT going to qualify for Europe, not even the shitty UEFA cup. Getting to the quarter finals of the UEFA is NOT a significant achievement. We are out both domestic cups, getting beat 5-1 by a Championship side at home ffs! We are 6 points above 16th in the league, in what must be the worst Premiership ever.

 

But for me, the telling thing has been the abysmal quality of the matches we have been forced to watch. We're a team of misfits, there is no sense of direction or cohesiveness in the team and seemingly little hope of improvement. I can understand that Patrokles may be unaware of this, but surely you can see it HF?

 

There is no chance that Roeder will be sacked. He's the cheap, easy option and you get the impression Shepherd has burnt all his bridges. For me, this is what is so depressing about the whole situation.

[Isegrim 9910]

[...] We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

[...]

And that's what winds me up. I don't think anyone is thinking of Newcastle having a "divine right" to success. But I think that Newcastle's basis is far better than Blackburn's, Everton's, Bolton's and Villa's (until the take over). Even with keeping the injuries in mind we were in a much better position at the start of the season than those teams, but still fail to match them. And I don't think anyone is being put under unfair pressure. Roeder himself said that last year's position has to be the bench mark for this season.

 

But for the record: I am actually not for sacking Roeder or rather moving him back to the academy=. Well, not without having a better solution up the sleeves. But I think Newcastle have to question themselves if they really tap the potential. And IMHO lowering the ambition would mean to accept mediocrity...

[Gemmill 46182]

All this stuff about accepting mediocrity and that winds me up a little bit. There's only 4 clubs can get into the Champions league and it's a decade since we batted above our average and automatically qualified for it. A few years earlier it was Leeds that were doing the same, or Norwich before them so we can be grateful for the odd European push when we have a competent manager rather than Nationwide relegation battles. We're as mediocre as Blackburn or Villa who've as much right to complain about failing to build on previous 'success', but the fans seem to think we have a god given right to so much more which puts our managers (and therefore the chairman) under terrible pressure.

 

We do deserve more, but when it doesn't fall in our lap within a season of regime change I'm not one to scream for the managers head, because what happened to raise expectations was just extraordinary.

 

When a manager like Souness is producing tepid football, loosing regularly and dragging us into a relegation battle, fair enough, get rid. When a manager has rescued us from that battle, took us into Europe, has us heading to the quarter finals, and is only 6 points off that European place again, I'll complain the odd match was shite, but don't see why he should get sacked.

 

Your putting a ridiculously positive spin on it in that last paragraph. Roeder did well last year, but that was partly down to the new manager effect and a lot of help from Shearer imo. Things have been much worse this year. We are NOT going to qualify for Europe, not even the shitty UEFA cup. Getting to the quarter finals of the UEFA is NOT a significant achievement. We are out both domestic cups, getting beat 5-1 by a Championship side at home ffs! We are 6 points above 16th in the league, in what must be the worst Premiership ever.

 

But for me, the telling thing has been the abysmal quality of the matches we have been forced to watch. We're a team of misfits, there is no sense of direction or cohesiveness in the team and seemingly little hope of improvement. I can understand that Patrokles may be unaware of this, but surely you can see it HF?

 

There is no chance that Roeder will be sacked. He's the cheap, easy option and you get the impression Shepherd has burnt all his bridges. For me, this is what is so depressing about the whole situation.

 

Spot on. We are not progressing. We are not heading in the right direction. We are going backwards. The performances are a testament to this. Every league point we picked up in January we picked up against the run of play in those games, sometimes ridiculously so (I'm talking Spurs away when we got absolutely raped by them in the first half).

 

We are sitting 11th in the table. We look shit at home and away from home. We are out of both domestic cups. But not to worry, the ship has been steadied.