Roeder

[Renton 23169]

Silly argument when you consider that Roeder, in half a season, did better than the guys people are praising, and then cautioning about second season syndrome.

 

You're comparing Roeder's achievement favourably to Coppell's?

 

Patrokles Roeder.

 

It's using your logic.

 

I'm just pointing out a flaw in what was said. If you're going to judge people on first seasons, then what Roeder did for less than half a season, given the state the club were in, is equally impressive.

 

No, it's not. He was a caretaker manager, he had Shearer as the right hand man, and he only managed about 14 games iirc. That does not compare to what Coppell has done. Furthermore, SLPs reasons for "second season" syndrome would not apply to a club like Newcastle.

 

Sometimes I wish you'd see for yourself how awful some matches under Roeder are so you can take off those rose tinted glasses.

[Guest Patrokles]

After what happened with the Science/Religion thread which wasn't a Science/Religion thread, I'm not even going to start this time.

[Renton 23169]

After what happened with the Science/Religion thread which wasn't a Science/Religion thread, I'm not even going to start this time.

 

Don't bother with responding to the relevant points on why Coppell and Roeder aren't comparable then.

 

I added the last comment because it always seems to be the people who aren't subjected to the matches weekly that rate Roeder. All you seem to do is look at results without taking into account the bigger picture it seems. Not that the results are good enough anyway. If I'm wrong about this please correct me. The same was true with Souness in general - not you that time, but more often than that ex pats.

[Guest Patrokles]

After what happened with the Science/Religion thread which wasn't a Science/Religion thread, I'm not even going to start this time.

 

Don't bother with responding to the relevant points on why Coppell and Roeder aren't comparable then.

 

I added the last comment because it always seems to be the people who aren't subjected to the matches weekly that rate Roeder. All you seem to do is look at results without taking into account the bigger picture it seems. Not that the results are good enough anyway. If I'm wrong about this please correct me. The same was true with Souness in general - not you that time, but more often than that ex pats.

 

No, you're absolutely right. I don't pay any attention to anything Newcastle-related beyond my monthly check of the league table. I've never seen a game, whether at St. James' or on the TV. What I do is look at the score on the bbc website and then sit in my bedroom and invent what happened and write it in my diary.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

[Park Life 71]

After what happened with the Science/Religion thread which wasn't a Science/Religion thread, I'm not even going to start this time.

 

Don't bother with responding to the relevant points on why Coppell and Roeder aren't comparable then.

 

I added the last comment because it always seems to be the people who aren't subjected to the matches weekly that rate Roeder. All you seem to do is look at results without taking into account the bigger picture it seems. Not that the results are good enough anyway. If I'm wrong about this please correct me. The same was true with Souness in general - not you that time, but more often than that ex pats.

 

No, you're absolutely right. I don't pay any attention to anything Newcastle-related beyond my monthly check of the league table. I've never seen a game, whether at St. James' or on the TV. What I do is look at the score on the bbc website and then sit in my bedroom and invent what happened and write it in my diary.

 

 

You love it!

[Tooj 17]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

Sir Berb?

[Renton 23169]

After what happened with the Science/Religion thread which wasn't a Science/Religion thread, I'm not even going to start this time.

 

Don't bother with responding to the relevant points on why Coppell and Roeder aren't comparable then.

 

I added the last comment because it always seems to be the people who aren't subjected to the matches weekly that rate Roeder. All you seem to do is look at results without taking into account the bigger picture it seems. Not that the results are good enough anyway. If I'm wrong about this please correct me. The same was true with Souness in general - not you that time, but more often than that ex pats.

 

No, you're absolutely right. I don't pay any attention to anything Newcastle-related beyond my monthly check of the league table. I've never seen a game, whether at St. James' or on the TV. What I do is look at the score on the bbc website and then sit in my bedroom and invent what happened and write it in my diary.

 

I guess I am being unfair but it was just an observation. I'd say maybe we look better on TV but from what I've seen even that isn't true!

 

Whatever, you're welcome to your opinion on Roeder, I still think in comparison with most other premiership managers he is below par. I hope he proves me wrong though but I doubt it.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

Sir Berb?

 

Locks his grandchildren under the stairs.

 

On a serious note, Robson wasn't afraid to dish out an almighty bollocking.

[Tooj 17]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

Sir Berb?

 

Locks his grandchildren under the stairs.

 

On a serious note, Robson wasn't afraid to dish out an almighty bollocking.

Still not a bastard though Dave.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

Sir Berb?

 

Locks his grandchildren under the stairs.

 

On a serious note, Robson wasn't afraid to dish out an almighty bollocking.

Still not a bastard though Dave.

 

Cheated on his wife!

 

Perhaps that was a bit low.

[Tooj 17]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

Sir Berb?

 

Locks his grandchildren under the stairs.

 

On a serious note, Robson wasn't afraid to dish out an almighty bollocking.

Still not a bastard though Dave.

 

Cheated on his wife!

 

Perhaps that was a bit low.

Oh fuck he did as well.

[Guest alex]

If I'm going to try and be positive about Roeder, maybe if he develops a mean streak we might see an improvement. All the best managers are bastards. FACT.

Sir Berb?

 

Locks his grandchildren under the stairs.

 

On a serious note, Robson wasn't afraid to dish out an almighty bollocking.

Still not a bastard though Dave.

 

Cheated on his wife!

 

Perhaps that was a bit low.

[Park Life 71]

All I think about is when can we get rid of him.

[Fop 1]

 

No, Carr and Babayaro are unsellable and big name players will want at least the same wages.

 

So what would we do with them then? Keep them? Pay off their contract?

 

I really wonder how the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Reading at al are coping with no players being available for decent prices and possible to attract...

 

Well we'll see when they do well for 2 years on the trot and do well in Europe too, mostly those clubs have 1 good year and then 1 dire year etc. etc. and haven't done well in Europe if they've got there.

 

That's not to say they don't have good managers, but equally I couldn't see any of those managers turning NUFC back into a genuine Champions League likelihood (we are still a possibility) without a LOT of money.

 

Sorry, but the "we couldn't get anyone, nobody good wants to join us" stance is just bullshit.

 

Throw enough money at them, yes. But see the wages point above.

 

Also price isn't always a gaurentee of quality (at least not when playing for NUFC), look at Luque, look at the rather huge list of players that we've paid a fair wack for and have been nothing special.

 

 

As for assuming of cash being available: We did sign Duff and the manager did admit he went in for Huth. That are enough facts for me proving that Roeder had another 10m cash to his disposal - even after spending 10m on Martins. The lack of transfer funds wasn't the problem last summer, but incompetency in the transfer market.

 

25 million to spend? Maybe but unlikely I think, and that's a big assumption.

 

But even IF they dumped another 10 million on a really decent player, we'd need another 50 million to spend to cover all the holes in the current squad.

 

Last time I looked we aren’t Chelski and even they want to turn a profit sometime soon.

[Isegrim 10161]

 

No, Carr and Babayaro are unsellable and big name players will want at least the same wages.

 

So what would we do with them then? Keep them? Pay off their contract?

 

I really wonder how the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Reading at al are coping with no players being available for decent prices and possible to attract...

 

Well we'll see when they do well for 2 years on the trot and do well in Europe too, mostly those clubs have 1 good year and then 1 dire year etc. etc. and haven't done well in Europe if they've got there.

 

That's not to say they don't have good managers, but equally I couldn't see any of those managers turning NUFC back into a genuine Champions League likelihood (we are still a possibility) without a LOT of money.

 

Sorry, but the "we couldn't get anyone, nobody good wants to join us" stance is just bullshit.

 

Throw enough money at them, yes. But see the wages point above.

 

Also price isn't always a gaurentee of quality (at least not when playing for NUFC), look at Luque, look at the rather huge list of players that we've paid a fair wack for and have been nothing special.

 

 

As for assuming of cash being available: We did sign Duff and the manager did admit he went in for Huth. That are enough facts for me proving that Roeder had another 10m cash to his disposal - even after spending 10m on Martins. The lack of transfer funds wasn't the problem last summer, but incompetency in the transfer market.

 

25 million to spend? Maybe but unlikely I think, and that's a big assumption.

 

But even IF they dumped another 10 million on a really decent player, we'd need another 50 million to spend to cover all the holes in the current squad.

 

Last time I looked we aren’t Chelski and even they want to turn a profit sometime soon.

10 + 10 = 25?

[Fop 1]

 

No, Carr and Babayaro are unsellable and big name players will want at least the same wages.

 

So what would we do with them then? Keep them? Pay off their contract?

 

I really wonder how the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Reading at al are coping with no players being available for decent prices and possible to attract...

 

Well we'll see when they do well for 2 years on the trot and do well in Europe too, mostly those clubs have 1 good year and then 1 dire year etc. etc. and haven't done well in Europe if they've got there.

 

That's not to say they don't have good managers, but equally I couldn't see any of those managers turning NUFC back into a genuine Champions League likelihood (we are still a possibility) without a LOT of money.

 

Sorry, but the "we couldn't get anyone, nobody good wants to join us" stance is just bullshit.

 

Throw enough money at them, yes. But see the wages point above.

 

Also price isn't always a gaurentee of quality (at least not when playing for NUFC), look at Luque, look at the rather huge list of players that we've paid a fair wack for and have been nothing special.

 

 

As for assuming of cash being available: We did sign Duff and the manager did admit he went in for Huth. That are enough facts for me proving that Roeder had another 10m cash to his disposal - even after spending 10m on Martins. The lack of transfer funds wasn't the problem last summer, but incompetency in the transfer market.

 

25 million to spend? Maybe but unlikely I think, and that's a big assumption.

 

But even IF they dumped another 10 million on a really decent player, we'd need another 50 million to spend to cover all the holes in the current squad.

 

Last time I looked we aren’t Chelski and even they want to turn a profit sometime soon.

10 + 10 = 25?

 

10 + 5 + 10 = 25 (last time I checked)

[Isegrim 10161]

 

No, Carr and Babayaro are unsellable and big name players will want at least the same wages.

 

So what would we do with them then? Keep them? Pay off their contract?

 

I really wonder how the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Reading at al are coping with no players being available for decent prices and possible to attract...

 

Well we'll see when they do well for 2 years on the trot and do well in Europe too, mostly those clubs have 1 good year and then 1 dire year etc. etc. and haven't done well in Europe if they've got there.

 

That's not to say they don't have good managers, but equally I couldn't see any of those managers turning NUFC back into a genuine Champions League likelihood (we are still a possibility) without a LOT of money.

 

Sorry, but the "we couldn't get anyone, nobody good wants to join us" stance is just bullshit.

 

Throw enough money at them, yes. But see the wages point above.

 

Also price isn't always a gaurentee of quality (at least not when playing for NUFC), look at Luque, look at the rather huge list of players that we've paid a fair wack for and have been nothing special.

 

 

As for assuming of cash being available: We did sign Duff and the manager did admit he went in for Huth. That are enough facts for me proving that Roeder had another 10m cash to his disposal - even after spending 10m on Martins. The lack of transfer funds wasn't the problem last summer, but incompetency in the transfer market.

 

25 million to spend? Maybe but unlikely I think, and that's a big assumption.

 

But even IF they dumped another 10 million on a really decent player, we'd need another 50 million to spend to cover all the holes in the current squad.

 

Last time I looked we aren’t Chelski and even they want to turn a profit sometime soon.

10 + 10 = 25?

 

10 + 5 + 10 = 25 (last time I checked)

Only proves that you calculating skills are better than your reading skills.

[Fop 1]

 

No, Carr and Babayaro are unsellable and big name players will want at least the same wages.

 

So what would we do with them then? Keep them? Pay off their contract?

 

I really wonder how the likes of Bolton, Blackburn, Everton, Reading at al are coping with no players being available for decent prices and possible to attract...

 

Well we'll see when they do well for 2 years on the trot and do well in Europe too, mostly those clubs have 1 good year and then 1 dire year etc. etc. and haven't done well in Europe if they've got there.

 

That's not to say they don't have good managers, but equally I couldn't see any of those managers turning NUFC back into a genuine Champions League likelihood (we are still a possibility) without a LOT of money.

 

Sorry, but the "we couldn't get anyone, nobody good wants to join us" stance is just bullshit.

 

Throw enough money at them, yes. But see the wages point above.

 

Also price isn't always a gaurentee of quality (at least not when playing for NUFC), look at Luque, look at the rather huge list of players that we've paid a fair wack for and have been nothing special.

 

 

As for assuming of cash being available: We did sign Duff and the manager did admit he went in for Huth. That are enough facts for me proving that Roeder had another 10m cash to his disposal - even after spending 10m on Martins. The lack of transfer funds wasn't the problem last summer, but incompetency in the transfer market.

 

25 million to spend? Maybe but unlikely I think, and that's a big assumption.

 

But even IF they dumped another 10 million on a really decent player, we'd need another 50 million to spend to cover all the holes in the current squad.

 

Last time I looked we aren’t Chelski and even they want to turn a profit sometime soon.

10 + 10 = 25?

 

10 + 5 + 10 = 25 (last time I checked)

Only proves that you calculating skills are better than your reading skills.

 

 

Hehe so I guess that means you agree with everything else.

 

And even if we take your rather confused wanderings to mean that we had 20 million to spend (still a big assumption), 10+5+6 = 21 anyway.

[Isegrim 10161]

Hehe so I guess that means you agree with everything else.

Not really. I fail to see how most of it is really related to what I said.

And even if we take your rather confused wanderings to mean that we had 20 million to spend (still a big assumption), 10+5+6 = 21 anyway.

Only that my "assumption" or "rather confused wanderings" was that we had another 10m next to the 10m (10.14m if you want to be pedantic) for Martins. 10 + 10 = 20.

We did sign Martins. Fact.

We did sign Duff. Fact.

And Roeder (as well as Huth) said himself that he made a last ditch attempt to praise Huth away from Boro. So to me this very much looks like a fact for having another 5-6m to his disposal.

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcast...-name_page.html

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/0200spo...-name_page.html

 

Considering this, I wonder what is the bigger assumption.That Roeder had a transfer kitty of 20m or that he didn't have one?

 

My original point still stands. The money wasn't spent wisely. And by wisely I actually mean decent players for decent fees.

[Fop 1]

Hehe so I guess that means you agree with everything else.

Not really. I fail to see how most of it is really related to what I said.

 

No reading or calculating skills for you then I guess.

 

 

And even if we take your rather confused wanderings to mean that we had 20 million to spend (still a big assumption), 10+5+6 = 21 anyway.

Only that my "assumption" or "rather confused wanderings" was that we had another 10m next to the 10m (10.14m if you want to be pedantic) for Martins. 10 + 10 = 20.

We did sign Martins. Fact.

We did sign Duff. Fact.

And Roeder (as well as Huth) said himself that he made a last ditch attempt to praise Huth away from Boro. So to me this very much looks like a fact for having another 5-6m to his disposal.

 

Which would suggest they offered significantly less for Huth than Boro, in wages and/or fee.

 

Considering this, I wonder what is the bigger assumption.That Roeder had a transfer kitty of 20m or that he didn't have one?

 

Again he’d have needed at LEAST 21 million to get whom you say he should have got.

 

My original point still stands. The money wasn't spent wisely. And by wisely I actually mean decent players for decent fees.

 

Again you’re saying that Martins wasn’t “wise”?

 

Duff was most likely a FFS buy and the rest were cheap or free.

 

The failure to get Huth could have been for many reasons (and he’s hardly set Boro alight this season, although injury hasn’t helped)……… and I still don’t see that 50 million we’d need to get the 4-5 players we actually need.

 

Not getting Campbell was more of a mistake IMO and the lack of action in January, although I suspect the cash issues and the hugely inflated prices asked were a significant part of that.

[Guest Patrokles]

My patience is starting to pay off!

[Jimbo 175]

tactically inept etc.

[MattM4 0]

I think the way we played in the first half tonight only shows how poor the management team is. We've been scrambling along all season when there's clear potential.

 

By the very laws of probability a performance like that was well overdue.

[Guest Patrokles]

I think the way we played in the first half tonight only shows how poor the management team is. We've been scrambling along all season when there's clear potential.

 

By the very laws of probability a performance like that was well overdue.

 

Alternatively, you could argue that now he actually a good few players back, and has been able to work with them...