Renton 22413 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 So which do you think it was, missile (twirls finger around temple) or plane? I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. You have to ask yourself how credible the alternative is, bearing in mind all the questions you have dodged in this thread. Contrary to popular belief there are not military jets scrambled 24/7 (not then anyway), and there was a great deal of confusion at the time. As has been said, there were thousands of civilian jets in the air at the time and the civilian authorities were slow to react to contact the military. Regardless, are you saying the civilian authorities were in on it, despite the fact the CIA weren't? Yes or no will do. How stupid are you to even consider that a civilina authority could be 'in on' a possible conspiracy. I really don't see why they would have to be in on it....Just avoiding my question above and throwing around a lot of cobblers about the 'the milkman' having to be in on it etc... You don't see why they would have to be in on it? No offence mate, that's idiotic, end of thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22413 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 So which do you think it was, missile (twirls finger around temple) or plane? I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. Answer that (previously ignored question) then: If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, were the bits of the passenger airline (consistent with the missing plane) that were recovered from the scene afterwards planted there (in the full glare of the media spotlight) after the missile(s) hit? Seen as you know so much. I can't answer your question by the way, I honestly don't know enough about it. I seriously question the credibilty of any unsupported info you supply though Parkster. You and Renton (blissfully unaware of the extensive radar cover as I now realise). Again do you think it is credible that Andrews and Norad would miss this elephant heading for the Pentagon? How is the Pentagon protected air space when there is a major airport (Ronald Reagan Washington) about 3 miles away? Did your loony sites miss that bit out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 it wasn't tho Parky - it could just as easily have been heading for Washington National Airport - which is only 4 miles from the Pentagon................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47091 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Parky do you want me to say something sarcy so you can go about "embarrassing" me instead of yourself? Edited February 23, 2007 by Gemmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 So which do you think it was, missile (twirls finger around temple) or plane? I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. Answer that (previously ignored question) then: If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, were the bits of the passenger airline (consistent with the missing plane) that were recovered from the scene afterwards planted there (in the full glare of the media spotlight) after the missile(s) hit? Seen as you know so much. I can't answer your question by the way, I honestly don't know enough about it. I seriously question the credibilty of any unsupported info you supply though Parkster. You and Renton (blissfully unaware of the extensive radar cover as I now realise). Again do you think it is credible that Andrews and Norad would miss this elephant heading for the Pentagon? Can't answer the question? Thought not. Btw, the fact you took until now to mention the RADAR thing suggests you've been googling away since yesterday. Well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 it wasn't tho Parky - it could just as easily have been heading for Washington National Airport - which is only 4 miles from the Pentagon................... So he made it up then? Class His credibility would be in tatters if it hadn't already been ripped to shreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 So which do you think it was, missile (twirls finger around temple) or plane? I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. You have to ask yourself how credible the alternative is, bearing in mind all the questions you have dodged in this thread. Contrary to popular belief there are not military jets scrambled 24/7 (not then anyway), and there was a great deal of confusion at the time. As has been said, there were thousands of civilian jets in the air at the time and the civilian authorities were slow to react to contact the military. Regardless, are you saying the civilian authorities were in on it, despite the fact the CIA weren't? Yes or no will do. How stupid are you to even consider that a civilina authority could be 'in on' a possible conspiracy. I really don't see why they would have to be in on it....Just avoiding my question above and throwing around a lot of cobblers about the 'the milkman' having to be in on it etc... You don't see why they would have to be in on it? No offence mate, that's idiotic, end of thread. What the airtraffic controllers? Were they offerred a Mars bar and an extra 5 min coffee break? I'm sure you'd love to end the thread. Again it is on public record the civilian air traffic spotted the plane headed for the Pentagon airspace and this is logged (not sure why they would have to be in on anything). I'm sure at the same time Norad and Andrews would have known (especially if the transponder was turned off....Do you know if it was?). BUT did this 'plane' hit the Pentagon. I still think the evidence is inconclusive. WHY DON'T HE JUST RELEASE THE FOOTAGE OF A BIG WHITE ELEPHANT HITTING THE PENTGON?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 it wasn't tho Parky - it could just as easily have been heading for Washington National Airport - which is only 4 miles from the Pentagon................... So he made it up then? Class His credibility would be in tatters if it hadn't already been ripped to shreds. I meant to say Pentagon airspace Rob. You'd know the differance not these two jokers... I will add "tatters" to "loons" and the other long list..... You and Renton clearly know nothing of the details you didn't even know about the 3 radars ffs!! Clearly wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47091 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 "especially if the transponder was turned off." Ooooo Parky gets technical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 So which do you think it was, missile (twirls finger around temple) or plane? I'll come out and say I am absolutely certain it was a plane, the same plane that was hijacked by fanatical islamic terrorists, the same plane that was tracked on radar and disappeared over the pentagon, the same plane terrified passengers made phone calls from to their loved ones, the same plane that was witnessed by dozens of eye witnesses flying low and hitting the pentagon, and the same plane whose fragments can clearly be seen in the penthouse. No hedging from me there, shame about the conspiracists. I'd love a link to the radar data. Be careful.... Why would you expect such data to be available in a "link"? The radar images were broadcast at the time on the news (also in on it no doubt) and repeated in a documentary on Channel 4, which also interviewed one of the controllers (also in on it I suppose). Haven't you read any of the reports? You seem to be coming across as quite the expert... I don't claim to be an expert, never have, read the thread again. I have no knowledge in materials science or structural engineering to speak of, for instance. Do you? ...Yes but I have read many many reports inc extracts from the 'official report'...So to let you and Alex into summat that you two are clearly totally ignorant of..The airspace around the Pentagon comes under the jurisdiction of Norad and another dedicated radar close by (I think it is at Andrews) that looks specifically for missiles and not planes. So in effect there would have been 3 radar nodes all watching the Pentagon airspace and not just one civilian facility. Small private planes and infact Lear Jets are from time to time escorted out of this zone by airforce jets for encroaching and many miles from the Pentagon. So clearly the reaction times are there as well the relevant eyes and ears. You have to ask yourself that 40 min after a plane hits the first tower how much of a lockdown the Pentagon AIRspace would be under? How credible is it a huge civilian airliner would amble in and hit the Pentagon at its leisure? Honest question. Answer that (previously ignored question) then: If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, were the bits of the passenger airline (consistent with the missing plane) that were recovered from the scene afterwards planted there (in the full glare of the media spotlight) after the missile(s) hit? Seen as you know so much. I can't answer your question by the way, I honestly don't know enough about it. I seriously question the credibilty of any unsupported info you supply though Parkster. You and Renton (blissfully unaware of the extensive radar cover as I now realise). Again do you think it is credible that Andrews and Norad would miss this elephant heading for the Pentagon? Can't answer the question? Thought not. Btw, the fact you took until now to mention the RADAR thing suggests you've been googling away since yesterday. Well done It's better to let people who think they are taking the piss make monkeys of themselves before revealing your true analysis....Playground stuff really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 "especially if the transponder was turned off." Ooooo Parky gets technical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) It's better to let people who think they are taking the piss make monkeys of themselves before revealing your true analysis....Playground stuff really. However you dress it up, you obviously can't answer my question. Btw, I don't think you can get much more playground than 'I know but I'm not telling you' instead of admitting you don't know the answer. Edited February 23, 2007 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22413 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Again it is on public record the civilian air traffic spotted the plane headed for the Pentagon airspace and this is logged (not sure why they would have to be in on anything). I'm sure at the same time Norad and Andrews would have known (especially if the transponder was turned off....Do you know if it was?). BUT did this 'plane' hit the Pentagon. I still think the evidence is inconclusive. WHY DON'T HE JUST RELEASE THE FOOTAGE OF A BIG WHITE ELEPHANT HITTING THE PENTGON?? The Pentagon isn't protected air space, there is a HUGE civilian air port almost on its door step. The military radars would have seen dozens or even hundreds of planes at the time, all trying to land, at an airport like, erm, Dulles or Ronald Reagan. Everything air traffic controllers do is logged to precision for obvious reasons. The radar path, the conversations, everything is recorded. For this information to be modified they would HAVE to be in on it. Edited February 23, 2007 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Again it is on public record the civilian air traffic spotted the plane headed for the Pentagon airspace and this is logged (not sure why they would have to be in on anything). I'm sure at the same time Norad and Andrews would have known (especially if the transponder was turned off....Do you know if it was?). BUT did this 'plane' hit the Pentagon. I still think the evidence is inconclusive. WHY DON'T HE JUST RELEASE THE FOOTAGE OF A BIG WHITE ELEPHANT HITTING THE PENTGON?? The Pentagon isn't protected air space, there is a HUGE civilian air port almost on its door step. The military radars would have seen dozens or even hundreds of planes at the time, all trying to land, at an airport like, erm, Dulles or Ronald Reagan. Everything air traffic controllers do is logged to precision for obvious reasons. The radar path, the conversations, everything is recorded. For this information to be modified they would HAVE to be in on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47091 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 WHICH IDIOT UNPLUGGED THE TRANSPONDER?!!!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 WHICH IDIOT UNPLUGGED THE TRANSPONDER?!!!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 "NORAD was unusually prepared on 9/11, because it was conducting a week-long semiannual exercise called Vigilant Guardian. On 9/11, North American Aerospace Defense Command's (Norad) Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) was fully staffed, its key officers and enlisted supervisors already manning the operations center "battle cab." [Aviation Week] COLONEL ROBERT MARR, US AIR FORCE: We had the fighters with a little more gas on board. A few more weapons on board. [...] We had 14 aircraft on alert, seven sites, two aircraft at each site. [ABC News] That's a ratio of 3.5 'hot' fighter jets per hijacked airliner." Laters muppets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Still, can't answer my question then? Yours sincerely, Fozzie Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Still, can't answer my question then? Yours sincerely, Fozzie Bear Can't remember the question. But serioulsy have a look at this Al: "The whole system knew that planes had been and could be used by Al Qaeda as weapons, and had worked to prevent that happening in Genoa at the summit that summer when warning signals were high, protecting Bush specifically against planes. Warnings from foreign intelligence agencies of such a plot were received all through the summer and early fall, as well as specific forewarnings not to fly on 9/11 to Pentagon Brass, foreign officials and the mayor of San Francisco. Exercises and preparations were taken in 1998-2000 to secure the Pentgagon against a plane attack with radar and cameras, and to test emergency response procedures. NORAD was on full readiness alert, with planes waiting on the runways as part of an exercise that day called Vigilant Guardian. There had been earlier exercises involving planes used as weapons as well. NORAD is capable of tasking any available plane. Standard operating procedures in any single, even private plane air emergencies for an immediate FAA/NORAD response were not followed at all on 9/11 despite multiple large commuter planes off course, without transponders and not communicating with towers, which later were clearly known to be hijackings. Not only were no NORAD intercept planes scrambled for well over half an hour after the first plane gave indications of trouble at 8:17 am, NONE were ever scrambled to defend DC and P-56, the most protected air space in the country. Available planes in Canada were not scrambled, which regularly protect New York air space. Available planes at Andrews AFB and Anacostia NAS proximate to DC were not scrambled. Planes scrambled from Langley AFB, 130 miles south of DC, were sent to NYC and asked to confirm the hit on the Pentagon on the way there. In addition, planes scrambled from Otis AFB in CT, sent too late to intercept the two NY attack planes, turned to intercept Flight AA77 headed to DC and were called back. Fighter pilots from Pomona AFB in Atlantic City, NJ, on military maneuvers, within sight of the first tower burning in NYC were called back to base. Planes in the air over North Carolina, based out of Andrews AFB were not tasked. Normal response time in over 65 other air emergencies in the year before 9/11, in far less serious circumstances, was an average of 6-10 minutes. On 9/11 the time stretched to over an hour." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Interesting. What's the source btw? Bit of a cop out to say you don't remember my question Parky (not unexpected though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Wheres that from though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The terrorists turned of the radios and transpondrrs off when they took over the planes. The 13 supected hijackings figure came from the entire number of planes that appeared to be off course and not responding to radio calls. Erog the Pentagon plane was by then just an uncontactable blip on the screen. from Parky: Standard operating procedures in any single, even private plane air emergencies for an immediate FAA/NORAD response were not followed at all on 9/11 despite multiple large commuter planes off course, without transponders and not communicating with towers, which later were clearly known to be hijackings. Is this not explained by the fact that there was already a hell of a flap on? I would imagine the SOP's handle single instances of lost aircraft, not the kind of chaos on 9/11. Do these SOP's mention what action is to be taken in the event of intercept? If I recall, most of the delay was down to there being no clear indication of authority to fire from the White House, amongst mixed infromation from the civil controllers. I would imagine this has something to do with the lack of figher activity. The radar signature, and indeed speed of a plane, is completely different to a missile. This would be evident on the post-analysis of the Pentagon data (which they have). A drone would have been spotted by civilians as easy as a plane should have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I would imagine due to the lack of response the source is a joke anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Wheres that from though? Will go back and find it...Here is the CBS variant. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/...main589137.shtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Wheres that from though? Will go back and find it...Here is the CBS variant. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/...main589137.shtm Page cannot found on my browser. The CIA must have pulled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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