Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 "There is no official plea of guilt from the Russians but loads of evidence, i just cant find it on google, i promise to keep looking and post up. Still dont get it. You questioned whether anyone could countenance the death of citizens. I continue to think that is a banal question given the war in Iraq, precipitated by the act we are discussing. Arguing about moral culpability is just irrelevant." From The Age an Ozzy paper Suspicions of dirty tricks by the FSB were first raised in 1999, when massive bombs, also blamed on the Chechens, destroyed four apartment blocks in Moscow and provincial cities, killing hundreds of people as they slept. Such was the public outrage that Putin, then prime minister, was able to launch a second war against Chechnya that propelled him into the Kremlin as successor to Boris Yeltsin. However, a bizarre incident in Ryazan, 200 kilometres east of Moscow, in September 1999 made some Russians wonder whether the official version of the bombings should be taken at face value. Residents of a high-rise apartment block similar to the four that had already been destroyed saw a small group of people they described as ethnic Russians, not Chechens, carrying sacks into the basement of their building. The local police said the sacks contained explosives. It appeared the Ryazan flat-dwellers were to be the victims of the next bombing. When the FSB turned up from Moscow, however, they said the sacks contained sugar and that the whole scare, which had involved the residents of the building being evacuated in the middle of the night, had been a "training exercise" to test the alertness of citizens. Only recently have dissidents such as Litvinenko, whose book on the apartment block bombings has been banned in Russia, begun to speak up. Two men have been jailed for life for the roles they played in blowing up the blocks of flats, but those who ordered the explosions have not been identified. Litvinenko has also accused the FSB of blowing up the metro train, packed with hundreds of peak-hour commuters, just as, he says, the FSB and KGB before it were responsible for 80 years of terrorism, going back to the earliest days of the Soviet Union." my man in moscow reckons that the FSB did it 'n aalll Nice one Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. Parky - Gayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Aeroflot steward? stewardess but its tough to tell the difference TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Aeroflot steward? stewardess but its tough to tell the difference TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Btw: That's the popular usage of the phrase 'sour grapes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. I think SSH has been excellent in this thread as it goes. But said nothing I didn't already know. HOw about WT7...No plane hit, tiny fire....Fell down by itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Btw: That's the popular usage of the phrase 'sour grapes'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I didn't vote for Blair. I won't vote Brown/whoever Just what is it that you are doing to oust those in power? Nothing criminal I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I didn't vote for Blair. I won't vote Brown/whoever Just what is it that you are doing to oust those in power? Nothing criminal I hope Is that you Vic? Edited February 20, 2007 by Parky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. I think SSH has been excellent in this thread as it goes. But said nothing I didn't already know. HOw about WT7...No plane hit, tiny fire....Fell down by itself? What do you think happened with it? The initial report was inconclusive, yes? Surely if a conspiracy was at large the official report would have been a whitewash rather than an admittance that further investigation (at great cost to the taxpayers was needed)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. I think SSH has been excellent in this thread as it goes. But said nothing I didn't already know. HOw about WT7...No plane hit, tiny fire....Fell down by itself? What do you think happened with it? The initial report was inconclusive, yes? Surely if a conspiracy was at large the official report would have been a whitewash rather than an admittance that further investigation (at great cost to the taxpayers was needed)? I think the neighboring fires were so hot they were melting steel all over the place, half of NY was in danger at one point.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. I think SSH has been excellent in this thread as it goes. But said nothing I didn't already know. HOw about WT7...No plane hit, tiny fire....Fell down by itself? What do you think happened with it? The initial report was inconclusive, yes? Surely if a conspiracy was at large the official report would have been a whitewash rather than an admittance that further investigation (at great cost to the taxpayers was needed)? I think the neighboring fires were so hot they were melting steel all over the place, half of NY was in danger at one point.......... No TNT involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. I think SSH has been excellent in this thread as it goes. But said nothing I didn't already know. HOw about WT7...No plane hit, tiny fire....Fell down by itself? What do you think happened with it? The initial report was inconclusive, yes? Surely if a conspiracy was at large the official report would have been a whitewash rather than an admittance that further investigation (at great cost to the taxpayers was needed)? I think the neighboring fires were so hot they were melting steel all over the place, half of NY was in danger at one point.......... Manhattan nearly collapsed in on itself and sank without a trace. "We pulled it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I'm canny sceptical about just about eveything Parky. Not least some of the patter you try and pull (and with some justification). The SSH/Renton comments from you are just sour grapes because they (SSH in particular) absolutely pwned you in this thread imo. I think SSH has been excellent in this thread as it goes. But said nothing I didn't already know. HOw about WT7...No plane hit, tiny fire....Fell down by itself? What do you think happened with it? The initial report was inconclusive, yes? Surely if a conspiracy was at large the official report would have been a whitewash rather than an admittance that further investigation (at great cost to the taxpayers was needed)? I think the neighboring fires were so hot they were melting steel all over the place, half of NY was in danger at one point.......... Manhattan nearly collapsed in on itself and sank without a trace. "We pulled it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 So, you've never heard about these Russian attacks and the stories behind them. I did say i would have a look. I'm aware of the attacks. I'm also aware that any terrorist attack will attract Parky like questions. The pudding is in the proof as they say. I'll collect your thoughts for you. You're basically asking whether i believe its possible that an act of terrorism was 'allowed' to happen by a govt, to further its economic policy. Yes on the basis of precedent, hence me asking the questions. You honestly seem to be confused as to whether this plot was carried out by one or two agents, or a matter of policy. I will find it hard to continue if you can't settle on one position. If it's the policy route, please expand on the precedent you hold with one or two examples. Did they know the scale of it beforehand? I doubt it. Yet you attribute their lack of action to a conspiracy, rather than lack of intelligence. As for the CIA links, they started the movement and have continued to use this relationship since its inception. How has the CIA used this relationship in the past decade to their advantage? Is the rise of Islamic extremism one big CIA super plot to control the western world? Or is it a once usefull strategic partnership gone sour due to the changes in geo-politics? Any known operative would have been under surveillance. It wasnt the first time they tried to blow up the towers, you do remember that? Are you claiming the second bombing was allowed to happen, even though the links were in place. Are you claiming that this is a permanent relationship, where by the CIA lets certain attacks happen, arrests the perpetrators, but allows the instigators to continue? Are you of the opinion that, rather than an instrument of protection, the CIA is an instrument of fear escalation? Do you accept the position that surveillance is not 100% unfallibe, possible or reliable. Do you accept the fact that this would have to be the case for the CIA to be able to prevent every single terrorist attempt? Do you accept that the role of terrorism prevention is a boundless task, where your successes will never outweigh your failures? Do you accept that intelligence failures will happen, and do not necessarily point to alterior purposes, for the reasons just stated? Your attempts at balancing the morality ...are...irrelevant. I would disagree when the discusion centres around the actions of human beings. Do you think morality is not an issue here when weighing up, in the absence of hard evidence, the claims at hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Steve_Howey 0 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Kevin Carr - Doubter Jimbo - Doubter of official story Parky-Looks at official story when in need of a serious laugh. Alex- Tries to bring to bear his logic, but knows full well what nasties Govt are capable of. Chez-Across the board destroyer of the naive Gemmill-Joker SSH/Renton- The people Govt and assorted nasties love as these are the types that keep them in power. I didn't vote for Blair. I won't vote Brown/whoever Just what is it that you are doing to oust those in power? Nothing criminal I hope Is that you Vic? Why do I keep getting compared to this Vic bloke? Second time it's happened, are we similar in some way? I've never seen a post by him, so I'm in the dark on this one as it were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 It's a terribly unfair comparison imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) It's a terribly unfair comparison imo. Not from what I've heard....... Edited February 20, 2007 by Parky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 It's a terribly unfair comparison imo. Not from what I've heard....... Don't give me that shite. I've met SSH btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 (edited) It's a terribly unfair comparison imo. Not from what I've heard....... Don't give me that shite. I've met SSH btw. I know you have and I also know various others who have.... I think he's alright just for the record. Edited February 20, 2007 by Parky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 It's a terribly unfair comparison imo. Not from what I've heard....... Don't give me that shite. I've met SSH btw. I know you have and I also know various others who have.... Where's the suggestion it's Vic come from? I seriously doubt he'd be able to rein in his personality that much. On here that is, I realise people can be nowt like their online persona in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 It's a terribly unfair comparison imo. Not from what I've heard....... Don't give me that shite. I've met SSH btw. I know you have and I also know various others who have.... Where's the suggestion it's Vic come from? I seriously doubt he'd be able to rein in his personality that much. On here that is, I realise people can be nowt like their online persona in real life I know it isn't Vic silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Where is Vic though? Not that I miss him like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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