One for Parky

[Gemmill 47106]

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

There is strong evidence that Thermite may have been used to bring down the towers.

 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/thermite.htm

 

Let's be clear...Finkelstein basically purchased and insured and then re-insured (doubling the cover) a building complex which they had been unable to sell for 10 years.

 

So he thought, what the hell, I'll just murder 3,000 people, as long as I get my money back?

[Tom 14021]

Just an excuse to invade iraq

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

[Jimbo 175]

Its incredible stuff.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALIH9dAAAUc

[Guest alex]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

Oh dear, Parky relies on a general lack of knowledge to sustain these arguments.

[Renton 22415]

Can anyone name a single major conspiracy theory that has subsequently be found to be true?

 

For me, the whole concept of a large group of people keeping clandestine secrets in a free society where investigative journalism is allowed lacks credibility.

[Guest alex]

Can anyone name a single major conspiracy theory that has subsequently be found to be true?

 

For me, the whole concept of a large group of people keeping clandestine secrets in a free society where investigative journalism is allowed lacks credibility.

Match fixing amongst the top clubs in Italy? Juve in particular have been suspected of foul play for years and years.

Also, my mate Paul used to claim Jim Morrison had a flat in Wideopen.

[Gemmill 47106]

Also, my mate Paul used to claim Jim Morrison had a flat in Wideopen.

 

Riders on the Metro.

[Renton 22415]

Can anyone name a single major conspiracy theory that has subsequently be found to be true?

 

For me, the whole concept of a large group of people keeping clandestine secrets in a free society where investigative journalism is allowed lacks credibility.

Match fixing amongst the top clubs in Italy? Juve in particular have been suspected of foul play for years and years.

Also, my mate Paul used to claim Jim Morrison had a flat in Wideopen.

 

Small beer in the face of things though. Watergate would be another example, but covering up 9/11 or the moon landings? Not possible imo.

[Guest alex]

JFK being shot by Elvis was more or less proven by The Viz too.

[Park Life 71]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html

 

"That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F)."

 

 

 

The steel in the towers were also treated with an asbestos type compound to give it greater resistance against fire...It was the re-application of this treatment which was CAUSING PROBLEMS IN SELLING THE BUILDINGS as insurance companies wanted the treatment re-done, which would have been a hell of an expensive process.

 

Again I repeat the 'jet fuel' would have burnt off in seconds....Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by?? Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel. If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever.

 

There are a lot of anomalies about this event, hence the interesest worldwide. IMO there was foul play at work, but to what extent who can tell? IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Parky

[Guest alex]

I've never heard anyone use alloy as a term to mean aluminium tbh. Is it commonly used in cycling? Aluminium is an element/metal. I've only ever known alloy to be used to describe a mixture of metals/elements. [/basic GCSE]

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

 

Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel.

 

Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?.

[Park Life 71]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

 

Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel.

 

Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?.

 

I know what you're saying, but how does a fire on a few floors near the top of such a building make the steel fail near the bottom?

 

Built in the late 70's iirc.

 

Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers.

[Gemmill 47106]

Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers.

 

Parky playing the Rob W card.

[Guest alex]

Started to be built in the late 60's and finished by the early 70's I think. 1971-ish iirc.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html

 

"That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F)."

 

 

 

The steel in the towers were also treated with an asbestos type compound to give it greater resistance against fire...It was the re-application of this treatment which was CAUSING PROBLEMS IN SELLING THE BUILDINGS as insurance companies wanted the treatment re-done, which would have been a hell of an expensive process.

 

Again I repeat the 'jet fuel' would have burnt off in seconds....Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by?? Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel. If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever.

 

There are a lot of anomalies about this event, hence the interesest worldwide. IMO there was foul play at work, but to what extent who can tell? IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets.

 

The steel in the towers were also treated with an asbestos type compound to give it greater resistance against fire...It was the re-application of this treatment which was CAUSING PROBLEMS IN SELLING THE BUILDINGS as insurance companies wanted the treatment re-done, which would have been a hell of an expensive process.

 

Are you trying to imply that the steel had a higher heat resistance because of it's coating, or that this coating was innefective and needed replacing so they blew up the towers instead? Make your mind up.

 

Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by??

 

Do you?

 

Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel.

 

Fire brigade studies of the temperatures reached just inside a single living room fire are phenomenal. The material being burnt is not the only factor influencing the temperature reached in a fire.

 

If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever.

 

Why wouldn't it?

 

IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets.

 

Yet you have no plausible counter-explanantions. Only questions.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Super_Steve_Howey

[Park Life 71]

Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers.

 

Parky playing the Rob W card.

 

Card beautifully played imho.

[Park Life 71]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html

 

"That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F)."

 

 

 

The steel in the towers were also treated with an asbestos type compound to give it greater resistance against fire...It was the re-application of this treatment which was CAUSING PROBLEMS IN SELLING THE BUILDINGS as insurance companies wanted the treatment re-done, which would have been a hell of an expensive process.

 

Again I repeat the 'jet fuel' would have burnt off in seconds....Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by?? Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel. If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever.

 

There are a lot of anomalies about this event, hence the interesest worldwide. IMO there was foul play at work, but to what extent who can tell? IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets.

 

Any idea what what this oxygen starved fire (black smoke) was kept going by??

 

Do you?

 

Office furniture doesn't have the ability to reach high temps that is needed to buckle steel.

 

Fire brigade studies of the temperatures reached just inside a single living room fire are phenomenal. The material being burnt is not the only factor influencing the temperature reached in a fire.

 

If steel was weakened in the upper part of the building, I am wondering how the collpased so methodically without any 'lean' whatsoever.

 

Why wouldn't it?

 

IMO the building didn't collapse just cause they were hit by Jets.

 

Yet you have no plausible counter-explanantions. Only questions.

 

The questions about this incident are what makes it interesting...

 

Go admit it....The whole scenario is fishy.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

 

Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel.

 

Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?.

 

I know what you're saying, but how does a fire on a few floors near the top of such a building make the steel fail near the bottom?

 

Built in the late 70's iirc.

 

Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers.

 

make the steel fail near the bottom?

 

Who says it did?

 

You should hear what they say after a few beers

 

What did they say?

Edited February 20, 2007 by Super_Steve_Howey

[Park Life 71]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

 

Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel.

 

Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?.

 

I know what you're saying, but how does a fire on a few floors near the top of such a building make the steel fail near the bottom?

 

Built in the late 70's iirc.

 

Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers.

 

Who says it did?

 

You should hear what they say after a few beers

 

What did they say?

 

 

To put it politely they have some issues with the way the buildings were re-insured.....And Finkelstien isn't one of their favourite people...The way this kind of insurance works is that the risk is often diluted by seperate entities taking up the cover as a joint venture. Without going into detail Lloyds were highly circumspect about the re-insurance package and the formula involved. We're not quite in the territory of renegade brokers....But we're close.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Parky

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

Thermite is a reaction between aluminium and iron III oxide (present in rust, rust protection treatments and computer storage devices). A jet fueled building inferno can reach 800 deg C. Seel has a critical temperature of 500 deg C at which point it is no longer considered capable of structural support. Aluminium melts at 600 deg C. Thermite reactions occur mostly in the liquid metal phase. The normally high ignition temperature of pure thermite can be reduced by the already liquid state of aluminium, the prior presence of flame (i.e. a building fire, although thermite cannot be ignited by flame alone), and the presence of small quantities of sulphur (a by-product of innefficient hydrocarbon burning i.e. a building fire). Thermite reactions can be initiated by high energy friction of metals and abrasives (i.e. a building collapsing). Once ignited, a thermite reaction requires no oxygen (i.e. it cannot be smothered) and will sustain itself from iron oxide and reactive metals (aluminium, copper, steel i.e. a building debris field). Thermite reactions produce extremely high temperatures (i.e. capable of melting steel), exacerbated by the inability of the reaction heat to escape (i.e. in an underground fire).

 

Q.E.D An explanation for thermite processes in a building collapse caused by an aeroplane strike

 

What do I win?

 

Where did you get that from the temp seem too low.

 

What's the melting point of steel?

 

That depends on the alloy of steel you are talking about. The term alloy is almost always used incorrectly these days, especially amongst bicyclists. They use the term to mean aluminum. What the term alloy really means is a mixture of metals, any kind of metals. Almost all metal used today is a mixture and therefore an alloy.

 

Most steel has other metals added to tune its properties, like strength, corrosion resistance, or ease of fabrication. Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

 

Steel doesn't need to melt to bacome structurally unsound. You can bend steel without metling it right? The figure is for standard structural steel.

 

Steel alloys contains trace amounts of other elements/compunds (not metals) to engender enhanced properties. This is not to increase melting point, since the material is still 99% Fe. Using complicated alloys is not cost-effective or even necessary for structural support, structural design is far more important, standard properly hardened steel is sufficient for buildings given the above. Plus these towers date from the 60's no?.

 

I know what you're saying, but how does a fire on a few floors near the top of such a building make the steel fail near the bottom?

 

Built in the late 70's iirc.

 

Lloyds of London were left holding the main risk mamagement. One or two of whom are clients of mine as they are also heavily involved in shipping. You should hear what they say after a few beers.

 

Who says it did?

 

You should hear what they say after a few beers

 

What did they say?

 

 

To put it politely they have some issues with the way the buildings were re-insured.....And Finkelstien isn't one of their favourite people...The way this kind of insurance works is that the risk is often diluted by seperate entities taking up the cover as a joint venture. Without going into detail Lloyds were highly circumspect about the re-insurance package and the formula involved. We're not quite in the territory of renegade brokers....But we're close.

 

Spell it out for me, i'm ignorant in felony insurance fraud. Aren't they just sore they had to pay out an insurance policy, or is there something else I've missed?

[Guest alex]

Can these supposed irregularities about the insurance be sourced anywhere other than conspiracy sites/message board hearsay though? Because I would have expected the media to have picked up on it but I've only ever heard about it on here or N-O.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 4087]

The one conspiracy theory about the whole thing is the Pentagon hit. Never seen a plane leave such a neat whole and no wreckage before.