F F S................

[The Fish 10793]

 

Well, its not intended. I think so many people not looking at facts, and not taking in things others try to tell them that they have witnessed, is untrue, and a touch arrogant as well

 

sweet lordy dear

[LeazesMag 0]

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

honestly don't read your posts anymore Leazes, they're just the same shite repeated ad infinitum. But this one caught my eye.

 

Your perception seems to be, basically, anybody who isn't you is a cock...

 

and yet you don't see the paradox.

 

we've stagnated for the last 10 years or so, we've not progressed one step and in fact I'd say we've stumbled back a step or two. The quality of football being played has worsened, the quality of footballers at the club has worsened, the fact you cling desperately to the FACT that we've played in europe simply compounds your head in the sand attitude.

 

grow up man, you're like a seven yr old who simply says "I know you are, but what am I" as his stock reply to any challenge

 

you see, I'm not being flippant. I am astonished that so many of you can't accept that in the grand scheme of things, we have done fairly well. Yes I know we could be better, but loads of other clubs can say the same, and for 3 decades we have also said it from a lot worse position. In the bigger picture, this board has done a lot for the club and yes I know that nobody has done as well as Keegan, of course I do. There are loads of clubs who don't have ambition and back their managers, I can only point out that we could get a board like that again. Look around you at other clubs who were above us for long periods, why have we swapped positions with them ? This is my stance, and its the way it actually is too, and I also actually think that some of you who whinge on and think replacing the current board with anyone at all will improve the club are the bairns who need to grow up, because football - and life - simply isn't like that.

[The Fish 10793]

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

honestly don't read your posts anymore Leazes, they're just the same shite repeated ad infinitum. But this one caught my eye.

 

Your perception seems to be, basically, anybody who isn't you is a cock...

 

and yet you don't see the paradox.

 

we've stagnated for the last 10 years or so, we've not progressed one step and in fact I'd say we've stumbled back a step or two. The quality of football being played has worsened, the quality of footballers at the club has worsened, the fact you cling desperately to the FACT that we've played in europe simply compounds your head in the sand attitude.

 

grow up man, you're like a seven yr old who simply says "I know you are, but what am I" as his stock reply to any challenge

 

you see, I'm not being flippant. I am astonished that so many of you can't accept that in the grand scheme of things, we have done fairly well. Yes I know we could be better, but loads of other clubs can say the same, and for 3 decades we have also said it from a lot worse position. In the bigger picture, this board has done a lot for the club and yes I know that nobody has done as well as Keegan, of course I do. There are loads of clubs who don't have ambition and back their managers, I can only point out that we could get a board like that again. Look around you at other clubs who were above us for long periods, why have we swapped positions with them ? This is my stance, and its the way it actually is too, and I also actually think that some of you who whinge on and think replacing the current board with anyone at all will improve the club are the bairns who need to grow up, because football - and life - simply isn't like that.

 

 

surely though, SURELY you have to admit that since this board took over this club has not progressed one step, and has in fact stumbled backwards?

 

You must admit that? We've become a club who are at best mid-table, our back four is the source of ridicule for most pundits (who curely know a thing or two about football?), our team is often in the papers for all the wrong reasons.

 

I understand that things could be worse, we all know that, but things could and most definitely should be better. The last "plan" we had was when SJH announced Keegan would lead us to the premiership within 5 years.

 

Why, when the foundations were so solid, why have we failed to capitalise on our strong position?

 

We were genuine title contenders who needed only to improve our back line (despite having a better defense statistically than most give us credit for) and now we're battling to get into your much loved european competitions through the back door.

 

How can this 10 year decline be ignored?

[Meenzer 15449]

How can this 10 year decline be ignored?

I suppose it depends on what your benchmark is. Those of us who've "only" been going to SJP for 20 years, say, would probably say we're at a reasonable level right now - not fantastic, not awful - and should be striving for a significant improvement to help take us back to the levels we achieved under Keegan and Robson. A vocal minority of those of us who were born in 1732 and attended our pre-season tours of Outer Mongolia and Saturn while still in the womb, however, seem to prefer to use mediocrity as a benchmark and would be happy with scraping into 17th place every season because it's "better than how things used to be".

[Missed Sticks 0]

I see both points here. Even if LM gets on your tits you can't ignore the fact that he's seen the club at it's absolute worst and then seen the present owners turn it around, big time. It could be argued that a Board that achieved what it did so quickly has earned the right to make a few mistakes without everyone booing.

 

For what it's worth, and i think LM agrees, those mistakes have been made now. No more second chances. I think we need a better structure in place to run the club more professionally. It maybe that the club owners think so too and looking at developing one. SJH has mentioned this in the press.

 

Spurs got a DoF, etc fairly quickly. Seemed to have some good coaches and are looking towards the future. They're doing crap right now though so it should be pointed out that these things aren't necessarily a panacea.

 

It might be that Roeder is there to over haul the club system, employing proven youth team scouts, he's been telling the academy coached to let flair and skill flourish, not buying expensive flops (yet), etc. These are good foundations if we manage to bring in a manager who push the 1st team towards top 4 challengers again.

 

I know we've been there before but we f**ked that up so let's get over it and try and focus on the positives.

 

This would be a good place for a 'hippy smiley' tbh.

[gram 0]

 

Strange, because I think KK bandwagon jumpers are cocks. And I also think people who went to watch the toon pre-1992 who are so blind they cannot see the huge change for the better in the approach of the club since then are also cocks. I also think people who they "supported the club before Keegan" and didn't, are the biggest cocks of all.

 

So, you're a cock whichever of those camps you fall in.

 

you're a fucking cartoon sunshine...

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

 

The only FACT is that you seem to be so arrogant it's untrue.

Leazes, you really are a grade A prick. What a complete bell-end you sound. thick as a plank and arrogant with it. What a combination. Just fuck off and get a life you tosser.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

honestly don't read your posts anymore Leazes, they're just the same shite repeated ad infinitum. But this one caught my eye.

 

Your perception seems to be, basically, anybody who isn't you is a cock...

 

and yet you don't see the paradox.

 

we've stagnated for the last 10 years or so, we've not progressed one step and in fact I'd say we've stumbled back a step or two. The quality of football being played has worsened, the quality of footballers at the club has worsened, the fact you cling desperately to the FACT that we've played in europe simply compounds your head in the sand attitude.

 

grow up man, you're like a seven yr old who simply says "I know you are, but what am I" as his stock reply to any challenge

 

you see, I'm not being flippant. I am astonished that so many of you can't accept that in the grand scheme of things, we have done fairly well. Yes I know we could be better, but loads of other clubs can say the same, and for 3 decades we have also said it from a lot worse position. In the bigger picture, this board has done a lot for the club and yes I know that nobody has done as well as Keegan, of course I do. There are loads of clubs who don't have ambition and back their managers, I can only point out that we could get a board like that again. Look around you at other clubs who were above us for long periods, why have we swapped positions with them ? This is my stance, and its the way it actually is too, and I also actually think that some of you who whinge on and think replacing the current board with anyone at all will improve the club are the bairns who need to grow up, because football - and life - simply isn't like that.

 

 

surely though, SURELY you have to admit that since this board took over this club has not progressed one step, and has in fact stumbled backwards?

 

You must admit that? We've become a club who are at best mid-table, our back four is the source of ridicule for most pundits (who curely know a thing or two about football?), our team is often in the papers for all the wrong reasons.

 

I understand that things could be worse, we all know that, but things could and most definitely should be better. The last "plan" we had was when SJH announced Keegan would lead us to the premiership within 5 years.

 

Why, when the foundations were so solid, why have we failed to capitalise on our strong position?

 

We were genuine title contenders who needed only to improve our back line (despite having a better defense statistically than most give us credit for) and now we're battling to get into your much loved european competitions through the back door.

 

How can this 10 year decline be ignored?

 

the use of the word "decline" suggests the club is in freefall and competing with the likes of Leeds and Sheff Wed, for instance ie where we where when the current board took over. As we have still did fairly well ie only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us, and we have undertaken major off the field improvements to the stadium and expanded the stadium, I don't accept the club is in "decline". We have not matched our 2nd position that we reached under Keegan simply because we haven't been able to find a manager who has done so well, however the club has appointed - and obviously attracted, despite people saying falsely that they haven't - major trophy winning managers to the club, so nobody can say that they haven't attempted to match the position Keegan reached. Appointing these managers of this calibre and backing them to the hilt is in fact a "plan".

 

I agree with your comment about the defence under Keegan. However you immediately ruin it with the comment about the "back door". Up until 1992, we had only qualified for europe once in our history through the "front door" by finishing 5th in the league, and 3 times by the "back door" including the occasion we won it. Since 1992, under the current board, we have qualified more through the front door and the back door

than 35-40 years previous to this. What does this mean ? You tell me as you mentioned it. I think it shows conclusively the current board has done massively better than the old board, and made big leaps forward, which is what I keep saying and nobody believes it or acknowledges it to be true and gives credit for it.

In fact, it is indisputable.

 

Every manager at the club has had his "plan". And the clubs "plan" for every manager has been to assist him and support him to gain success.

 

The thing about this board is if they appoint the right manager - which everyone else is also attempting to do - they will give us success because they will back him. A different board may appoint the right manager - and there is no guarantee they will appoint the right manager any more than the current one - but if they are not ambitious then we have no chance, and he would leave for someone else. I have seen this at NUFC, and it is far far worse than the current situation, so it is the absolute last thing I want at the football club.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

Strange, because I think KK bandwagon jumpers are cocks. And I also think people who went to watch the toon pre-1992 who are so blind they cannot see the huge change for the better in the approach of the club since then are also cocks. I also think people who they "supported the club before Keegan" and didn't, are the biggest cocks of all.

 

So, you're a cock whichever of those camps you fall in.

 

you're a fucking cartoon sunshine...

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

 

The only FACT is that you seem to be so arrogant it's untrue.

Leazes, you really are a grade A prick. What a complete bell-end you sound. thick as a plank and arrogant with it. What a combination. Just fuck off and get a life you tosser.

 

oh dear. The schoolteacher sounding just like like his pupils. I hope they don't listen to you

Edited February 12, 2007 by LeazesMag

[gram 0]

 

Strange, because I think KK bandwagon jumpers are cocks. And I also think people who went to watch the toon pre-1992 who are so blind they cannot see the huge change for the better in the approach of the club since then are also cocks. I also think people who they "supported the club before Keegan" and didn't, are the biggest cocks of all.

 

So, you're a cock whichever of those camps you fall in.

 

you're a fucking cartoon sunshine...

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

 

The only FACT is that you seem to be so arrogant it's untrue.

Leazes, you really are a grade A prick. What a complete bell-end you sound. thick as a plank and arrogant with it. What a combination. Just fuck off and get a life you tosser.

 

oh dear. The schoolteacher sounding just like like his pupils. I hope they don't listen to you

I'll apologise to you Leazes. My uncle has just died and the first thing I saw when I wanted to relax was you acting like a cock again. However, the sentiment of what I said is still correct. You are sounding like a pompus, arrogant, dim-witted prick.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

Strange, because I think KK bandwagon jumpers are cocks. And I also think people who went to watch the toon pre-1992 who are so blind they cannot see the huge change for the better in the approach of the club since then are also cocks. I also think people who they "supported the club before Keegan" and didn't, are the biggest cocks of all.

 

So, you're a cock whichever of those camps you fall in.

 

you're a fucking cartoon sunshine...

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

 

The only FACT is that you seem to be so arrogant it's untrue.

Leazes, you really are a grade A prick. What a complete bell-end you sound. thick as a plank and arrogant with it. What a combination. Just fuck off and get a life you tosser.

 

oh dear. The schoolteacher sounding just like like his pupils. I hope they don't listen to you

I'll apologise to you Leazes. My uncle has just died and the first thing I saw when I wanted to relax was you acting like a cock again. However, the sentiment of what I said is still correct. You are sounding like a pompus, arrogant, dim-witted prick.

 

It is indeed a shame that you expect kids to listen to you, when you don't listen to others. That is what I would call acting like a cock, and pompous - note the spelling.

 

I am sorry to hear your bad news.

[gram 0]

 

Strange, because I think KK bandwagon jumpers are cocks. And I also think people who went to watch the toon pre-1992 who are so blind they cannot see the huge change for the better in the approach of the club since then are also cocks. I also think people who they "supported the club before Keegan" and didn't, are the biggest cocks of all.

 

So, you're a cock whichever of those camps you fall in.

 

you're a fucking cartoon sunshine...

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

 

The only FACT is that you seem to be so arrogant it's untrue.

Leazes, you really are a grade A prick. What a complete bell-end you sound. thick as a plank and arrogant with it. What a combination. Just fuck off and get a life you tosser.

 

oh dear. The schoolteacher sounding just like like his pupils. I hope they don't listen to you

I'll apologise to you Leazes. My uncle has just died and the first thing I saw when I wanted to relax was you acting like a cock again. However, the sentiment of what I said is still correct. You are sounding like a pompus, arrogant, dim-witted prick.

 

It is indeed a shame that you expect kids to listen to you, when you don't listen to others. That is what I would call acting like a cock, and pompous - note the spelling.

 

I am sorry to hear your bad news.

Thanks for the typing advice. And the final comment. Perhaps we could have a poll one day. A pint would be more amusing though

[LeazesMag 0]

 

Strange, because I think KK bandwagon jumpers are cocks. And I also think people who went to watch the toon pre-1992 who are so blind they cannot see the huge change for the better in the approach of the club since then are also cocks. I also think people who they "supported the club before Keegan" and didn't, are the biggest cocks of all.

 

So, you're a cock whichever of those camps you fall in.

 

you're a fucking cartoon sunshine...

 

but you can't dispute the FACT ? Why not ? It not my fault the facts don't suit your "opinion" mate

 

The only FACT is that you seem to be so arrogant it's untrue.

Leazes, you really are a grade A prick. What a complete bell-end you sound. thick as a plank and arrogant with it. What a combination. Just fuck off and get a life you tosser.

 

oh dear. The schoolteacher sounding just like like his pupils. I hope they don't listen to you

I'll apologise to you Leazes. My uncle has just died and the first thing I saw when I wanted to relax was you acting like a cock again. However, the sentiment of what I said is still correct. You are sounding like a pompus, arrogant, dim-witted prick.

 

It is indeed a shame that you expect kids to listen to you, when you don't listen to others. That is what I would call acting like a cock, and pompous - note the spelling.

 

I am sorry to hear your bad news.

Thanks for the typing advice. And the final comment. Perhaps we could have a poll one day. A pint would be more amusing though

 

oh, I'll have a pint with anybody, anytime, me like

[Noelie 103]

 

 

and your knowledge and experience of Newcastle is what exactly ?

 

 

 

Surely this question can't be directed at me LeazesMag!!

Surely you can't be asking a 74 year old Geordie gadgee what his knowledge and experience of Newcastle is!!

A lad who was weaned on Stubbins & Milburn, Brennan & Mitchell, was in his late teens and early twenties when we won the Cup 3 times, stood in the Gallowgate end in the rain & snow on more than one occasion. Followed the Lads in any which way I could since a schoolboy(before you were born) and never faltered in my support no matter where I was, who was playing, who was in charge, and what division they were in.

I think I should take me soap-box away so you can't clamber up on it to spout your egotistical pedantic rhetoric which for the most part is hypothetical nonsense.

 

 

Strange, it would appear you can't add up, if you think I was born after Mitchell and Milburn played for the club

It's not a question of addition, it's a question of someone who apparently can't digest and understand what has been written by someone other than himself. I never indicated in any way my thoughts on when you were born other than to say that I was a schoolboy fan before you were born. Pray tell me when you were born, I was a schoolboy from 1936 to 1948 and that's not hard to add up.

 

 

I don't know how long you have lived in Canada,

I have NEVER lived in Canada, how long have you lived in the real world?

 

 

but it is fair to say winning the cup 3 times in 5 years must have been brilliant. Assuming you have lived in Canada for a substantial part of the 50 years that have passed since that time, you will be slightly oblivious to how far the club had dived, until 1992. That is my point.

You are obviously not aware that there are things like short-wave radios, telephones, newspapers, television-sets, e-mail, and old-time letter writing to keep in touch. SO, what is your inane point?

 

 

Pay more attention to what others think and don't be so wrapped up in what you think.

[Baggio 0]

Don't take any notice of that whippersnapper Leazes Mag, Noelie.

[The Fish 10793]

the use of the word "decline" suggests the club is in freefall and competing with the likes of Leeds and Sheff Wed...

No, it really doesn't, it means/suggests.intimates/proposes that this club is not moving forward and is in fact moving backwards, it does, at no point, make reference to the speed or dramatic nature of the decline. So I'm not likening us to Leeds, Sheff Wed, Forest or any of that ilk.

 

 

I don't accept the club is in "decline".

This, I feel is the massive difference between you and the majority of Newcastle Fans (both old and new).

 

We have not matched our 2nd position that we reached under Keegan simply because we haven't been able to find a manager who has done so well, however the club has appointed - and obviously attracted, despite people saying falsely that they haven't - major trophy winning managers to the club, so nobody can say that they haven't attempted to match the position Keegan reached. Appointing these managers of this calibre and backing them to the hilt is in fact a "plan".

 

Most agree that Shepherd has backed every single manager that he has employed, however they would stipulate that a chairman wouldn't need to be so vocal in his support if the manager was a tragically poor appointment. You point to trophies and the like, but fail to recognise that it's horses for courses, Robson and Keegan were the right men for the job. Gullit, Dalglish and Souness were not. It was obvious to most people that Dalglish's footballing style would not marry well with the squad and team ethic that Keegan had built. Dalglish style is not cavalier as Keegan and Robson's were. Souness had left an awful swell of discontent and contempt behind him, how in the name of all that is holy did we think that this poor management approach and shocking football would sit with the Fans and footballers at NUFC?

 

I agree with your comment about the defence under Keegan. However you immediately ruin it with the comment about the "back door". Up until 1992, we had only qualified for europe once in our history through the "front door" by finishing 5th in the league, and 3 times by the "back door" including the occasion we won it. Since 1992, under the current board, we have qualified more through the front door and the back door

than 35-40 years previous to this. What does this mean ? You tell me as you mentioned it. I think it shows conclusively the current board has done massively better than the old board, and made big leaps forward, which is what I keep saying and nobody believes it or acknowledges it to be true and gives credit for it.

In fact, it is indisputable.

What does it mean, it means that until 1992 our only chance of european qualification would be a miraculous cup run. I think it means that since 92 our expectations have (rightfully) risen to meet the standards set by a team very obviously on the up. However these expectations are, season after season, lowering. Now tell me why this board who you vaunt, have allowed a return to low expectations? We as fans have every right to expect better from the club. We've the money, the fanbase, the fame to attract players who can deliver us success. Surely the fault then lies at the feet of the manager, the coaches and the club staff? We've had some outrageously talented footballers at the club and yet we've won nothing for decades! I refuse to eblieve this paucity of silverware is solely Lady Lucks machination. With persistently poor performances in the market for management and players this board have shown what they really are.

 

They're Newcastle United fans who want the best for the club, who will happily throw money at the problem without genuinely understanding what is expected from them as people, officials and spokesmen for a famous old club. I respect you've watched Newcastle United when they were close to anonymity and the leaps we've made in such a relatively short time are to be applauded. The way you have such low expectations is, in my eyes, to ignore and frankly insult the leaps we've made.

 

Every manager at the club has had his "plan". And the clubs "plan" for every manager has been to assist him and support him to gain success.

 

The thing about this board is if they appoint the right manager - which everyone else is also attempting to do - they will give us success because they will back him. A different board may appoint the right manager - and there is no guarantee they will appoint the right manager any more than the current one - but if they are not ambitious then we have no chance, and he would leave for someone else. I have seen this at NUFC, and it is far far worse than the current situation, so it is the absolute last thing I want at the football club.

 

You mention this boards ambition and this does not sit well with me. You barrack the old board, bemoaning the lack of ambition, fair enough... up until Sir John Hall took the helm. He dragged this club, with enthusiasm, financial acumen and busines sense, into the premiership. Under his stewardship we challenged for the title.

 

Ever since this current board took control we have slipped further and further down the league, we have spent an ugly amount of money for absolutely no reward. Sure we've a nice big stadium, we've good facilities to train upon, but what good will this do a team in the championship? What good does having a 52,000 seater stadium if we cannot fill it because (rightly or wrongly) football fans want to see food football and baulk at paying in exces of £20 for two hours of disappointment?

 

You can say that you don't want those kind of fans and you can call them names and wail into your mug of bovril, but in all honesty, those fair weather fans are the way clubs afford the better player, they're the fans that become season ticket holders next year, they're the men women and children who buy the over-priced merchandise.

 

When was the last time you bought something from the club shop that wasn't a shirt?

 

I don't care if these guys turn up and pay for the new Centre half we so desperately need. If they exists for a ouple of seasons then bugger off for warmer climes and longer days, so what? I want Newcastle United to succeed and under this board we're not. They've had a massive budget, they've had a solid foundation, they've been buyoed by the resurgence of football as the national sport, they've had every opportunity to make this great club successful and they have failed.

 

Not one person on here have said that another board will guarantee success, but what everyone seems willing to accept is that this board will not take us forward. Everyone apart from yourself.

 

now please... don't tell me that other clubs have been less succesful, because I don't care about other unsuccesful clubs. I care that this club, my club, has everything that it takes to be a great and powerful force in football. It has history, it has passionate fans, it has the facilities and it has a team with one or two potential stars.

Edited February 13, 2007 by The Fish

[sammynb 3353]

I agree with your comment about the defence under Keegan. However you immediately ruin it with the comment about the "back door". Up until 1992, we had only qualified for europe once in our history through the "front door" by finishing 5th in the league, and 3 times by the "back door" including the occasion we won it. Since 1992, under the current board, we have qualified more through the front door and the back door

than 35-40 years previous to this. What does this mean ? You tell me as you mentioned it. I think it shows conclusively the current board has done massively better than the old board, and made big leaps forward, which is what I keep saying and nobody believes it or acknowledges it to be true and gives credit for it.

In fact, it is indisputable.

To neither support nor refute anyone's argument it needs to be pointed out once and for all that since 1992 qualification for Europe has changed significantly, to the point where qualification now is ridiculously easy compared with pre-1992.

 

Champions league/European Cup

From UEFA.com:

Competition change

The major turning point in the evolution of the competition came in the 1992/93 season when the UEFA Champions League, involving a group phase in addition to the traditional knock-out elements, was officially inaugurated after a pilot group stage during the previous season. The popularity of the group phase has witnessed the competition grow from eight to 32 teams with matches taking place on Tuesdays and Wednesdays across Europe.

 

Fairs cup/UEFA cup/Cup Winners cup

From UEFA.com:

This forerunner to the UEFA Cup, the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, was founded on 18 April 1955, two weeks after the founding of the European Champion Clubs’ Cup. The first Fairs Cup involved teams from Barcelona, Basle, Birmingham, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Lausanne, Leipzig, London, Milan and Zagreb. The original tournament lasted three years, with matches timed to coincide with trade fairs.

 

For the second tournament the organisers reverted to club participation but the teams still had to come from cities staging trade fairs. Sixteen clubs took part in the 1958-60 tournament, after which it was staged on an annual basis. By 1962 the number of entrants had risen to 32; there are now over 100.

 

From 1999/2000, domestic cup winners also qualified for the UEFA Cup after the UEFA Cup Winners’ Cup was disbanded. In addition, clubs eliminated from the third qualifying round of the UEFA Champions League and the eight third-placed finishers at the end of the group stage of the same competition entered the competition. The UEFA Cup also includes three Fair Play representatives, three UEFA Intertoto Cup winners and winners of some selected domestic league cup competitions. A group stage was introduced for the first time in 2004/05.

 

Whereas prior to 1992 there were only approx 40 European places and many of those were "invitation" only or a combination of invitation/qualification, there are now over 140 European places per season not including the intertoto cup.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

and your knowledge and experience of Newcastle is what exactly ?

 

 

 

Surely this question can't be directed at me LeazesMag!!

Surely you can't be asking a 74 year old Geordie gadgee what his knowledge and experience of Newcastle is!!

A lad who was weaned on Stubbins & Milburn, Brennan & Mitchell, was in his late teens and early twenties when we won the Cup 3 times, stood in the Gallowgate end in the rain & snow on more than one occasion. Followed the Lads in any which way I could since a schoolboy(before you were born) and never faltered in my support no matter where I was, who was playing, who was in charge, and what division they were in.

I think I should take me soap-box away so you can't clamber up on it to spout your egotistical pedantic rhetoric which for the most part is hypothetical nonsense.

 

 

Strange, it would appear you can't add up, if you think I was born after Mitchell and Milburn played for the club

It's not a question of addition, it's a question of someone who apparently can't digest and understand what has been written by someone other than himself. I never indicated in any way my thoughts on when you were born other than to say that I was a schoolboy fan before you were born. Pray tell me when you were born, I was a schoolboy from 1936 to 1948 and that's not hard to add up.

 

 

I don't know how long you have lived in Canada,

I have NEVER lived in Canada, how long have you lived in the real world?

 

 

but it is fair to say winning the cup 3 times in 5 years must have been brilliant. Assuming you have lived in Canada for a substantial part of the 50 years that have passed since that time, you will be slightly oblivious to how far the club had dived, until 1992. That is my point.

You are obviously not aware that there are things like short-wave radios, telephones, newspapers, television-sets, e-mail, and old-time letter writing to keep in touch. SO, what is your inane point?

 

 

Pay more attention to what others think and don't be so wrapped up in what you think.

 

Ok then California.

 

As for the rest, its very difficult for someone on the other side of the world to have a true perspective of the club. One or two people do, but in my opinion, you are not one of them.

 

My point remains. If you cannot see how far forward this club has came since 1992, it proves my point completely.

 

You should pay more attention to what people tell you who have been closer to the club than you have over these decades. And I have absolutely no reason to tell it anything other than how I have experienced it.

 

I have supported the club since 1964. I am 52. A young looking and fairly fit 52 I may add, which must have been through following NUFC all those years ..... as we've always had a good board like this one, played in europe, never been relegated, never sold our best players etc as some people on here appear to think

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860]

 

 

and your knowledge and experience of Newcastle is what exactly ?

 

 

 

Surely this question can't be directed at me LeazesMag!!

Surely you can't be asking a 74 year old Geordie gadgee what his knowledge and experience of Newcastle is!!

A lad who was weaned on Stubbins & Milburn, Brennan & Mitchell, was in his late teens and early twenties when we won the Cup 3 times, stood in the Gallowgate end in the rain & snow on more than one occasion. Followed the Lads in any which way I could since a schoolboy(before you were born) and never faltered in my support no matter where I was, who was playing, who was in charge, and what division they were in.

I think I should take me soap-box away so you can't clamber up on it to spout your egotistical pedantic rhetoric which for the most part is hypothetical nonsense.

 

 

Strange, it would appear you can't add up, if you think I was born after Mitchell and Milburn played for the club

It's not a question of addition, it's a question of someone who apparently can't digest and understand what has been written by someone other than himself. I never indicated in any way my thoughts on when you were born other than to say that I was a schoolboy fan before you were born. Pray tell me when you were born, I was a schoolboy from 1936 to 1948 and that's not hard to add up.

 

 

I don't know how long you have lived in Canada,

I have NEVER lived in Canada, how long have you lived in the real world?

 

 

but it is fair to say winning the cup 3 times in 5 years must have been brilliant. Assuming you have lived in Canada for a substantial part of the 50 years that have passed since that time, you will be slightly oblivious to how far the club had dived, until 1992. That is my point.

You are obviously not aware that there are things like short-wave radios, telephones, newspapers, television-sets, e-mail, and old-time letter writing to keep in touch. SO, what is your inane point?

 

 

Pay more attention to what others think and don't be so wrapped up in what you think.

 

Ok then California.

 

As for the rest, its very difficult for someone on the other side of the world to have a true perspective of the club. One or two people do, but in my opinion, you are not one of them.

 

My point remains. If you cannot see how far forward this club has came since 1992, it proves my point completely.

 

You should pay more attention to what people tell you who have been closer to the club than you have over these decades. And I have absolutely no reason to tell it anything other than how I have experienced it.

 

I have supported the club since 1964. I am 52. A young looking and fairly fit 52 I may add, which must have been through following NUFC all those years ..... as we've always had a good board like this one, played in europe, never been relegated, never sold our best players etc as some people on here appear to think

 

 

Nobody thinks that wanksplash.

[LeazesMag 0]

I agree with your comment about the defence under Keegan. However you immediately ruin it with the comment about the "back door". Up until 1992, we had only qualified for europe once in our history through the "front door" by finishing 5th in the league, and 3 times by the "back door" including the occasion we won it. Since 1992, under the current board, we have qualified more through the front door and the back door

than 35-40 years previous to this. What does this mean ? You tell me as you mentioned it. I think it shows conclusively the current board has done massively better than the old board, and made big leaps forward, which is what I keep saying and nobody believes it or acknowledges it to be true and gives credit for it.

In fact, it is indisputable.

To neither support nor refute anyone's argument it needs to be pointed out once and for all that since 1992 qualification for Europe has changed significantly, to the point where qualification now is ridiculously easy compared with pre-1992.

 

Champions league/European Cup

From UEFA.com:

Competition change

The major turning point in the evolution of the competition came in the 1992/93 season when the UEFA Champions League, involving a group phase in addition to the traditional knock-out elements, was officially inaugurated after a pilot group stage during the previous season. The popularity of the group phase has witnessed the competition grow from eight to 32 teams with matches taking place on Tuesdays and Wednesdays across Europe.

 

Fairs cup/UEFA cup/Cup Winners cup

From UEFA.com:

This forerunner to the UEFA Cup, the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, was founded on 18 April 1955, two weeks after the founding of the European Champion Clubs’ Cup. The first Fairs Cup involved teams from Barcelona, Basle, Birmingham, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Lausanne, Leipzig, London, Milan and Zagreb. The original tournament lasted three years, with matches timed to coincide with trade fairs.

 

For the second tournament the organisers reverted to club participation but the teams still had to come from cities staging trade fairs. Sixteen clubs took part in the 1958-60 tournament, after which it was staged on an annual basis. By 1962 the number of entrants had risen to 32; there are now over 100.

 

From 1999/2000, domestic cup winners also qualified for the UEFA Cup after the UEFA Cup Winners’ Cup was disbanded. In addition, clubs eliminated from the third qualifying round of the UEFA Champions League and the eight third-placed finishers at the end of the group stage of the same competition entered the competition. The UEFA Cup also includes three Fair Play representatives, three UEFA Intertoto Cup winners and winners of some selected domestic league cup competitions. A group stage was introduced for the first time in 2004/05.

 

Whereas prior to 1992 there were only approx 40 European places and many of those were "invitation" only or a combination of invitation/qualification, there are now over 140 European places per season not including the intertoto cup.

 

Is that so ? Well, you can tell us when the last team qualified for the UEFA Cup/Fairs Cup that finished 10th then 9th in the table, as we did in 1968 and 1969 ? Please back up your statement with a reply.

 

We would not have qualified in these years if not for the one city one club rule. We also finished 7th in the table in 1970. We finished 12th in 1971, 11th in 1972, 9th in 1973, 15th in 1974, 15th in 1975, 15th in 1976 and qualified again finishing 5th in 1977. Since 1977 we have finished 21st, 8th in div 2, 9th in div 2, 11th in div 2, 9th in div 2, 5th in div 2, 3rd in div 2, 14th in div 1, 11th in div 1, 17th in div 1, 8th in div 1, 20th in div 1, 3rd in div 2, 11th in div 2, 20th in div 2, up to and including 1992.

 

So, however many places were available for European qualification, they were irrelevant to us. Therefore your point is invalid.

Edited February 13, 2007 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

and your knowledge and experience of Newcastle is what exactly ?

 

 

 

Surely this question can't be directed at me LeazesMag!!

Surely you can't be asking a 74 year old Geordie gadgee what his knowledge and experience of Newcastle is!!

A lad who was weaned on Stubbins & Milburn, Brennan & Mitchell, was in his late teens and early twenties when we won the Cup 3 times, stood in the Gallowgate end in the rain & snow on more than one occasion. Followed the Lads in any which way I could since a schoolboy(before you were born) and never faltered in my support no matter where I was, who was playing, who was in charge, and what division they were in.

I think I should take me soap-box away so you can't clamber up on it to spout your egotistical pedantic rhetoric which for the most part is hypothetical nonsense.

 

 

Strange, it would appear you can't add up, if you think I was born after Mitchell and Milburn played for the club

It's not a question of addition, it's a question of someone who apparently can't digest and understand what has been written by someone other than himself. I never indicated in any way my thoughts on when you were born other than to say that I was a schoolboy fan before you were born. Pray tell me when you were born, I was a schoolboy from 1936 to 1948 and that's not hard to add up.

 

 

I don't know how long you have lived in Canada,

I have NEVER lived in Canada, how long have you lived in the real world?

 

 

but it is fair to say winning the cup 3 times in 5 years must have been brilliant. Assuming you have lived in Canada for a substantial part of the 50 years that have passed since that time, you will be slightly oblivious to how far the club had dived, until 1992. That is my point.

You are obviously not aware that there are things like short-wave radios, telephones, newspapers, television-sets, e-mail, and old-time letter writing to keep in touch. SO, what is your inane point?

 

 

Pay more attention to what others think and don't be so wrapped up in what you think.

 

Ok then California.

 

As for the rest, its very difficult for someone on the other side of the world to have a true perspective of the club. One or two people do, but in my opinion, you are not one of them.

 

My point remains. If you cannot see how far forward this club has came since 1992, it proves my point completely.

 

You should pay more attention to what people tell you who have been closer to the club than you have over these decades. And I have absolutely no reason to tell it anything other than how I have experienced it.

 

I have supported the club since 1964. I am 52. A young looking and fairly fit 52 I may add, which must have been through following NUFC all those years ..... as we've always had a good board like this one, played in europe, never been relegated, never sold our best players etc as some people on here appear to think

 

 

Nobody thinks that wanksplash.

 

Well, you appear to Shame you can't respond like an adult and prove you know what you are talking about, instead of an insult.

[Guest alex]

Aye, we've come a long way since 1992. We've stagnated and gone backwards since KK left though. FACT. Now, while it would be hard to maintain what we were achieving under Keegan, I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect that we should have spent the last ten years + competing with the likes of Liverpool every season. The problem under Shepherd is that there's been too much inconsistency. For a variety of reasons. I genuinely believe that is because the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal are run better, off the pitch, than us (top to bottom, not just at board room level - although the buck stops there). Competing with Man. Utd. and Chelsea long-term is less achievable given their financial status. No one would swap where we are now for pre-1992 but expectations have (understandably) been raised. Also, if you looked at a league table of big spenders in the last ten years, I reckon we'd be 3rd (at a guess). Which is a good reflection on how well the board has supported various managers. We'd also be the only club in the top 5 (it's safe to assume who those top 5 are) to have won nowt, with the others having a not inconsiderable trophy haul. That suggests something isn't quite right in the way things have been done - to me at least.

Edited February 13, 2007 by alex

[GeordieMessiah 2]

Aye, we've come a long way since 1992. We've stagnated and gone backwards since KK left though. FACT. Now, while it would be hard to maintain what we were achieving under Keegan, I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect that we should have spent the last ten years + competing with the likes of Liverpool every season. The problem under Shepherd is that's there's been too much inconsistency. For a variety of reasons. I genuinely believe that is because the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal are run better, off the pitch than us (top to bottom, not just at board room level - although the buck stops there). Competing with Man. Utd. and Chelsea long-term is less achievable given their financial status. No one would swap where we are now for pre-1992 but expectations have (understandably) been raised. Also, if you looked at a league table of big spenders in the last ten years, I reckon we'd be 3rd (at a guess). Which is a good reflection on how well the board has supported various managers. We'd also be the only club in the top 5 (it's safe to assume who those top 5 are) to have won nowt, with the others having a not inconsiderable trophy haul. That suggests something isn't quite right in the way things have been done - to me at least.

 

I'd agree with most of that, particularly the last bit I've bolded there...but we've come painfully close to winning silverware in that time, were it not for the harsh reality that this club seems to have a tendency to spontaneously combust whenever we've flirted briefly with cup triumph. I've got into the way of thinking that the Toon is just plain unlucky, and I'm not 100% sure how the blame for that e.g capitulating twice at Wembley, can be laid full square at the board's feet.

[Guest alex]

Tbh, the only time we came genuinely close to winning anything for me was the league in 1996, which would have been a fantastic achievement, obviously. It's over 10 years ago though so it doesn't come into the equation We were never in the 2 FA Cup Finals tbh. I suppose we were probably closer to winning it in 2000 than at any other time recently.

[LeazesMag 0]

Aye, we've come a long way since 1992. We've stagnated and gone backwards since KK left though. FACT. Now, while it would be hard to maintain what we were achieving under Keegan, I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect that we should have spent the last ten years + competing with the likes of Liverpool every season. The problem under Shepherd is that there's been too much inconsistency. For a variety of reasons. I genuinely believe that is because the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal are run better, off the pitch, than us (top to bottom, not just at board room level - although the buck stops there). Competing with Man. Utd. and Chelsea long-term is less achievable given their financial status. No one would swap where we are now for pre-1992 but expectations have (understandably) been raised. Also, if you looked at a league table of big spenders in the last ten years, I reckon we'd be 3rd (at a guess). Which is a good reflection on how well the board has supported various managers. We'd also be the only club in the top 5 (it's safe to assume who those top 5 are) to have won nowt, with the others having a not inconsiderable trophy haul. That suggests something isn't quite right in the way things have been done - to me at least.

 

At least someone can debate this without resorting to daft insults and mind blowing tedious no nothing comments.

 

Mostly agree, however it is not easy. My point is they have showed the ambition and appointed managers who have shown the ability to win things elsewhere. I also think that having finished in good league positions and played in the Champions League, the board has done their bit to provide a quality group of players, and there comes a point where the managers and players must accept the blame for bottling situations, getting tactics wrong in big games, and also for treating the League Cup lightly, which has been a cup there to be won, even more so for us bearing in mind how important it is for Newcastle United and the psychological effect winning the first trophy would mean. This point being something we have discussed before mate.

 

If you have a board running the club with zero ambition, or courage to attempt to tap the fanbase - which we had and many clubs have now at the current time - then we have NO chance whatsoever. Having experienced this, I have no desire to risk such a thing. Any replacements to the current board will have to satisfy this criteria or I would be unhappy with it, and I mean more than an input of 20m quid or so for the team, which could be a sweetener or admittedly a statement of intent so I personally would look beyond such actions.

 

The bold bit highlights something I have said before too Alex, the only people to credit with that is the board that have run the club since they took over, you simply can't dispute it.

[LeazesMag 0]

Aye, we've come a long way since 1992. We've stagnated and gone backwards since KK left though. FACT. Now, while it would be hard to maintain what we were achieving under Keegan, I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect that we should have spent the last ten years + competing with the likes of Liverpool every season. The problem under Shepherd is that's there's been too much inconsistency. For a variety of reasons. I genuinely believe that is because the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal are run better, off the pitch than us (top to bottom, not just at board room level - although the buck stops there). Competing with Man. Utd. and Chelsea long-term is less achievable given their financial status. No one would swap where we are now for pre-1992 but expectations have (understandably) been raised. Also, if you looked at a league table of big spenders in the last ten years, I reckon we'd be 3rd (at a guess). Which is a good reflection on how well the board has supported various managers. We'd also be the only club in the top 5 (it's safe to assume who those top 5 are) to have won nowt, with the others having a not inconsiderable trophy haul. That suggests something isn't quite right in the way things have been done - to me at least.

 

I'd agree with most of that, particularly the last bit I've bolded there...but we've come painfully close to winning silverware in that time, were it not for the harsh reality that this club seems to have a tendency to spontaneously combust whenever we've flirted briefly with cup triumph. I've got into the way of thinking that the Toon is just plain unlucky, and I'm not 100% sure how the blame for that e.g capitulating twice at Wembley, can be laid full square at the board's feet.

 

agree, which I've said before. Such dismal performances must be down to the players and manager, and they are not the only 2 situations either.