Music that you just don't get

[themags 0]

the current shite thats in the charts passing itself off as R n B

i can get my head around most music but not this shit

 

it'll be great to look back at the current charts and in 20 years time and remember the all the amazing songs about taking drugs, shoting people and shagging "ho's"

[Happy Face 29]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

[Mark 0]

I go through phases, I like a certain genre, then get bored of it, and listen to something else. At the minute I'm listening to alot of trance, I'll probably get bored of that soon. I mainly like hip-hop, mainly comercial, but not too comercialised like In da club and stuff by 50.

[Guest Sima]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

21952[/snapback]

 

 

He was branded a sell-out and lost a legion of fans.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

21952[/snapback]

 

Indeed they were, but that was people being incredibly snobby or up themselves that you couldn't use electric instruments, missing the fact that you can be just as creative and skillfull on either electric or acoustic.

[Happy Face 29]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

21952[/snapback]

 

Indeed they were, but that was people being incredibly snobby or up themselves that you couldn't use electric instruments, missing the fact that you can be just as creative and skillfull on either electric or acoustic.

21967[/snapback]

 

Ah, so you have no problem with people using computers to make music, just sampling other music. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

It pisses me off that Jason Nivens puts a beat under a Run DMC track and gets the biggest hit of the year. Then again, it pissed Jason Nivens off that he hardly made a penny and Run DMC increased sales massively off the back of his remix.

[Matt 0]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

What's wrong with using machines?

 

You've clearly decided that there is no skill if some kind of signal processing is required.

 

What about guitar effects pedals? Delay effects, harmony pedals and the like?

 

I'd say programming a synth (especially FM-synthesis) to produce a certain sound, especially one that is distinctive is a damn sight harder than coming up with a catchy riff.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

21952[/snapback]

 

Indeed they were, but that was people being incredibly snobby or up themselves that you couldn't use electric instruments, missing the fact that you can be just as creative and skillfull on either electric or acoustic.

21967[/snapback]

 

Ah, so you have no problem with people using computers to make music, just sampling other music. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

It pisses me off that Jason Nivens puts a beat under a Run DMC track and gets the biggest hit of the year. Then again, it pissed Jason Nivens off that he hardly made a penny and Run DMC increased sales massively off the back of his remix.

21981[/snapback]

 

I saw an interview with him ages ago and he was really bitter about it! Personally i didn't care, like any DJ he can't exist without the talent and creativity of musicians, they can exist without him. So no matter how many records he may have helped them shift, its tough, if he wants credit and money go and worte a song and play it yourself!

[Tooj 17]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

21952[/snapback]

 

Indeed they were, but that was people being incredibly snobby or up themselves that you couldn't use electric instruments, missing the fact that you can be just as creative and skillfull on either electric or acoustic.

21967[/snapback]

 

Ah, so you have no problem with people using computers to make music, just sampling other music. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

It pisses me off that Jason Nivens puts a beat under a Run DMC track and gets the biggest hit of the year. Then again, it pissed Jason Nivens off that he hardly made a penny and Run DMC increased sales massively off the back of his remix.

21981[/snapback]

think he got about 10 grand for it

[Papa Lazaru 0]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

What's wrong with using machines?

 

You've clearly decided that there is no skill if some kind of signal processing is required.

 

What about guitar effects pedals? Delay effects, harmony pedals and the like?

 

I'd say programming a synth (especially FM-synthesis) to produce a certain sound, especially one that is distinctive is a damn sight harder than coming up with a catchy riff.

21984[/snapback]

 

 

Well the guitar effects you have mentioned means they would be able to do all that on top of playing the instrument itself and having created and perfected the riffs, guitar breaks and solos in their music.

 

To be honest i prefer musicians over computer programmers in the field of music, just as i want my PC games worked on by programmers and not Ritchie Blackmore and Slash

[Papa Lazaru 0]

People can go on about how long it takes to produce all they like, i prefer the talent and skill of people playing actual instruments, creating everything themselves (because the chemical brothers themselves have happilly admitted to ripping music from other sources) and not relying on machines and technology to do everything for them.

21944[/snapback]

 

 

People were similarly disgusted when Bob Dylan plugged his guitar in, had to be acoustic apparently.

21952[/snapback]

 

Indeed they were, but that was people being incredibly snobby or up themselves that you couldn't use electric instruments, missing the fact that you can be just as creative and skillfull on either electric or acoustic.

21967[/snapback]

 

Ah, so you have no problem with people using computers to make music, just sampling other music. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

It pisses me off that Jason Nivens puts a beat under a Run DMC track and gets the biggest hit of the year. Then again, it pissed Jason Nivens off that he hardly made a penny and Run DMC increased sales massively off the back of his remix.

21981[/snapback]

think he got about 10 grand for it

21986[/snapback]

 

Yeah i remember it beign soemthign like that. And i actually think thats more than generous as a one of commision if you like. Bacially what he did was take their song, lyrics, performance and effort and messed about with it a bit, i think £10,000 is more than generous.

[Guest Sima]

What's your stance on Moby? After all he is dance and he plays various instruments.

[Happy Face 29]

Yeah i remember it beign soemthign like that. And i actually think thats more than generous as a one of commision if you like. Bacially what he did was take their song, lyrics, performance and effort and messed about with it a bit, i think £10,000 is more than generous.

21992[/snapback]

 

Depends who's being sampled I guess. AC/DC can refuse the Beastie Boys permission to sample one of their songs because they've sold enough records already but Bessie Smith (or her offspring) make more from a Moby remix than they ever got from original album sales. So who's doing who the favour?

 

I'd rather hear a DJ remix of a good song than Will Young sing an old one exactly the same as it was first released, and he earns far more than a remix DJ.

 

I think The Chemical Brothers use relatively few samples on their later albums.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

What's your stance on Moby?  After all he is dance and he plays various instruments.

21995[/snapback]

 

Not my choice of music to listen to but like you say he can play instruments which you can't knock. Obviously as i don't listen to his albums/live performances i don't know how much he balances using samples of other peoples music (like that old blues sample sung by a woman) against what he writes/creates/plays himself.

 

And to be honest i am aware there is a certain "talent" in picking the right thing to sample at the right time and fiddling with it, but its not the same as the talent to write the thing in the first place.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Yeah i remember it beign soemthign like that. And i actually think thats more than generous as a one of commision if you like. Bacially what he did was take their song, lyrics, performance and effort and messed about with it a bit, i think £10,000 is more than generous.

21992[/snapback]

 

Depends who's being sampled I guess. AC/DC can refuse the Beastie Boys permission to sample one of their songs because they've sold enough records already but Bessie Smith (or her offspring) make more from a Moby remix than they ever got from original album sales. So who's doing who the favour?

 

I'd rather hear a DJ remix of a good song than Will Young sing an old one exactly the same as it was first released, and he earns far more than a remix DJ.

 

I think The Chemical Brothers use relatively few samples on their later albums.

22000[/snapback]

 

I agree it often works out well for the original artist and that the artists in question will have no problem with it, certainly not as much as i do

 

And i agree with you i'm sick of hearing crappy pop groups and singers doing karaoke versions of good (and indeed bad) old songs and offering nothing new whatsoever but making it worse.

[Matt 0]

You still have to put the music IN, though. You are suggesting that musicians in the electronic field are incapable of music, that they are not musicians per se, which is an unfair claim.

 

Technology cannot write music (although it probably could if you really wanted it to). It simply does what the person cannot do (unless you know anyone who can sing a sawtooth wave). The result of various technological developments is a range of new sonic possibilities. Yes, the pop producers use it to replace those who can't sing in tune (Antares Autotune) but has also allowed the intuitive to develop something original (the Autotune has been used extensively by Daft Punk- particularly when used with a guitar riff in the vocals in Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger- and yes they did play the guitar themselves.)

 

These people are musicians and in many cases musicians who have gone to far greater lengths than many you may showcase as exemplary specimens.

[Happy Face 29]

Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger- and yes they did play the guitar themselves

 

22009[/snapback]

 

Fantastic guitar it is too. Quite a difficult stretch.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

You still have to put the music IN, though. You are suggesting that musicians in the electronic field are incapable of music, that they are not musicians per se, which is an unfair claim.

 

Technology cannot write music (although it probably could if you really wanted it to). It simply does what the person cannot do (unless you know anyone who can sing a sawtooth wave). The result of various technological developments is a range of new sonic possibilities. Yes, the pop producers use it to replace those who can't sing in tune (Antares Autotune) but has also allowed the intuitive to develop something original (the Autotune has been used extensively by Daft Punk- particularly when used with a guitar riff in the vocals in Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger- and yes they did play the guitar themselves.)

 

These people are musicians and in many cases musicians who have gone to far greater lengths than many you may showcase as exemplary specimens.

22009[/snapback]

 

Not the whole electronic field, just the dance part of it! Plenty of groups who were classed as using electronics or techonology but who also wrote songs/melodies/tunes etc. and played instruments.

 

But obviously what you see as good i don't. It may take skill (i'll give some of them that) but alot of that stuff makes them computer programmers not musicians.

 

And if they played the guitar themselves then fair play to them. I'm far less likely to knock people for using a bit of technolgy when they also can play instrument and actually write their own stuff as well.

[rikko 20]

I personally don't get dance music, i've been totally pissed out my head in a club and still been unable to dance to it. Kinda defeats its purpose.

 

But worst of all is gangsta rap. I am under the impression that the key part of rap is the lyrics, yet when you listen to them, they are the biggest pile of shite i've ever subjected my ears too.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

I personally don't get dance music, i've been totally pissed out my head in a club and still been unable to dance to it. Kinda defeats its purpose.

 

But worst of all is gangsta rap. I am under the impression that the key part of rap is the lyrics, yet when you listen to them, they are the biggest pile of shite i've ever subjected my ears too.

22031[/snapback]

 

Depends on which group/artist it is really, but within gangsta rap there is going to be a lot of the same stuff repeated lyrically from song to song and some of it isn't clever at all. Ironically i like it musically but don't care for the lyrics myself as some of them are basically just saying what wankers they were/are and how proud of that fact they seem to be.

 

But even the archetypical gangsta rap group, NWA had the odd song (well one at least) with no swearing or mention of ho's and the like!

[Matt 0]

I'm not going to stand up and say that the Flip and Fill types are doing is great music. I've already stated they are professional churners and do it to satisfy a demand and put food on their table back home.

 

But there is no way you can generalise electronic music as requiring less talent becuase the music must still be written and performed, but with elements of programming which are MUSICAL, not computerised. While there are some similarities, producing a sound requires understanding of music far beyond the basics. These people are not coding a page of JavaScript.

 

You might have twigged, but you appear to have stepped on one of my rant subjects.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

I'm not going to stand up and say that the Flip and Fill types are doing is great music. I've already stated they are professional churners and do it to satisfy a demand and put food on their table back home.

 

But there is no way you can generalise electronic music as requiring less talent becuase the music must still be written and performed, but with elements of programming which are MUSICAL, not computerised. While there are some similarities, producing a sound requires understanding of music far beyond the basics. These people are not coding a page of JavaScript.

 

You might have twigged, but you appear to have stepped on one of my rant subjects.

22036[/snapback]

 

Makes for far better arguments when you push somebody's buttons

 

Of course after we argue the relative skills, technique, creativity and artistry involved between producing instrument based music versus computer/technology based music, we will reach the next stage:

 

That the stuff produced by these programmers/musicians is not and never will be anywhere near as good as rock/blues/soul/metal/prog/add your own music no matter how much skill they required to produce it.

 

Of course the above point can only ever be classed as being my opinion, but thats an opinion i both respect and admire

[Matt 0]

'Good' is entirely subjective of course, and a futile point of argument. My top songs fall either side of the electronic divide. This thread of course is music that you don't 'get' rather than you don't like.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

'Good' is entirely subjective of course, and a futile point of argument. My top songs fall either side of the electronic divide. This thread of course is music that you don't 'get' rather than you don't like.

22066[/snapback]

 

"Don't get" is a strange term anyway. If you consider yourself intelligent and knowledgeable in music you aren't going to really think there is any music you don't get. You will think there is music that is just shite, that you are quite right to say its shite and that the only thing you don't get is how people can be stupid enough to like it!

 

And i admit thats how i think. Theres nothing about dance music i don't get because theres nothing you couldn't understand about it, i just don't get how a sane, sober person not on drugs can enjoy listening to it.

 

With music as mentioned earlier like Pink Floyd i can see how the term "not getting it" comes in. Because there are plenty of people out there who just don't get long songs, don't get instrumentals or long parts of songs being instrumental and wouldn't get their lyrics and concepts.

 

Also hip hop i can totally understand how some people hate it because they just plain don't like rapping as a vocal style and find alot of it offensive, yet i am a fan of it.

[Matt 0]

And i admit thats how i think. Theres nothing about dance music i don't get because theres nothing you couldn't understand about it, i just don't get how a sane, sober person not on drugs can enjoy listening to it.

22068[/snapback]

 

Because people like it= a matter of taste.

 

I am sane, sober (usually) and have a fairly sizeable pile of CDs (such as the aforementioned Chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, Prodigy, Fatboy Slim's earlier albums, Air and a good few Ministry of Sound albums before they started filling them with every chart release they could find).

 

I also have about 100-150 12" house released, some on the prog side of that genre, but mainly French and funk-inspired house. I'm also a fan of the soul styles and hammond-and-bass-driven funk that proved as an inspiration for the earliest forms of house and remained close every since.

 

Now, you've met me enough to know I am not a pill-popping 'propa radgie'. So unless I am, your supposition must be incorrect.