How can someone get bail

[Rob W 0]

Prisons take bad people and make them worse..................

[80-2 0]

Prisons take bad people and make them worse..................

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They often do now, aye. Thats what happens when you throw a group of lads in a complex together, make every effort to ignore them and let them form a society styled on Lord of the Flies.

[Rob W 0]

Fewer people inside and money spent on retraining, literacy etc

 

Money spent on supervision when they come out

 

Money well spent IMHO

[80-2 0]

Fewer people inside and money spent on retraining, literacy etc

 

Money spent on supervision when they come out

 

Money well spent IMHO

27040[/snapback]

 

In principle, I agree. You did read my post, didn't you? Rehabilitation through appropriate means is the goal, and if that doesn't involve prison - great.

 

Edit: I recall some scheme in South Wales, which basically involved taking young offenders out into the woods, teaching them some skills, and just letting them see parts of the world they would never normally have seen. The results (re-offense rates, etc.) were miraculous when compared to kids who were treated as usual. Ann Widdecombe was on saying that despite that fact, they shouldn't be taken off to do such things, that crime doesn't entitle you to a holiday etc. Now, perhaps there could've been some refinement, but her arguement (and I think her side won, in the end) essentially just involved wanting to cut their noses off to spite their respective faces.

Edited September 2, 2005 by 80-2

[Rob W 0]

I think a lot of it is like the new ideas they try in schools - ANYTHING new improves performance............

 

It's attention that does it...................

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes - if it was simple someone would have fixed it all years ago................

 

Most of the things you suggest actually existed in the past but didn't stop  us finishing up were we are now..........  I can remember people being hanged - and it never stopped a murder to my knowledge

 

Anyway the main determinate of the level of crime in any country is the number of young men between 13-25 - as that drops so does crime and vice versa

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Never said it ever "fixed" it, or it would be easy. Just a general opinion, shared by the vast majority, that standards of behaviour and respect have diminished since punishment/deterrents etc etc have been lessened.

 

These being a direct result of a general softening of societies attitudes in response to protests from bleeding hearts, left wing loonies and has now reached a stage whereby the infiltrator receives more sympathy and care than the victim - this has been discussed over and over again, but at the end of the day, in my opinion the highlighted bit is totally correct and while people bury their head in the sand it will only get worse.

 

It's amazing how people change their tune though if or when it arrives on their own doorstep......

 

BTW Rob, what on earth is that last paragraph trying to say, it's nothing more than just an excuse for admitting "i can't be bothered, it doesn't concern me so I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist". Statistical crap. And as it's your generation that spawned all these lefties etc anyway, I'm not surprised you would rather turn a blind eye ...

 

This topic started - like others, in fact a lot of others which is the very point - because someone was murdered/killed etc, and there are reasons why this type of crime and attitude is on the rise. It's nothing to do with "rehabilitation" at all, it's about deterrent and keeping dangerous people locked away and the decent majority able to live their lives in safety and decency.

 

The law allowed this tosser to stay free - and he killed. End of. The law is an arse, and it's no good lamely bleating "it's the law". Change it.

Edited September 2, 2005 by LeazesMag

[Rob W 0]

"Statistical crap" - is not an arguement

 

the stats show something - you explain it then if you disagree - the scientific method

 

You seem to think I don't care - I really do - but I've sat through a lifetime of easy, headline grabbing solutions which don't work

 

Just HOW are people going to be "taught standards of behaviour and respect"???? - you are talking about trying to change the whole drift of modern society away from a hierachical basis to a flat class structure

 

I'd like to see your reaction when someone says "Do this and do it because I am telling you to do it because I am better/older/richer than you and no questions either sonny"............. man, there'd be a riot

[LeazesMag 0]

"Statistical crap" - is not an arguement

 

the stats show something - you explain it then if you disagree - the scientific method

 

You seem to think I don't care - I really do - but I've sat through a lifetime of easy, headline grabbing solutions which don't work

 

Just HOW are people going to be "taught standards of behaviour and respect"????  - you are talking about trying to change the whole drift of modern society away from a hierachical basis to a flat class structure

 

I'd like to see your reaction when someone says "Do this and do it because I am telling you to do it because I am better/older/richer than you and no questions either sonny".............  man, there'd be a riot

27120[/snapback]

 

Fair comments, it just seems to me that when someone tries to explain something using statistics like that they are making an excuse to whitewash it - whatever age group they come from, does it matter, the majority of crime of any sort more than likely is committed in this age group, because they are fitter, have their future ahead of them, and are in their prime of life ...

 

It's not headline grabbing solutions, I realise characters are formed in childhood,

which in itself is influenced by family circumstances, stablity of life, standard of living etc etc we all learn from our parents. Good and bad, unfortunately. But there are certain things for which punishment has to be given, and sometimes it's the only way. Rehabilitation just isn't possible. How many of us really know some snotty faced kid or teenager who just isn't bothered about the law or consequences of their actions ??? I bet most of us do, so who is responsible for that, what really is your solution, do you really think they aren't going to end up being bad parents rather than good parents, law abiding citizens or complete idiots ?

 

I know that there a things I've done where a quick short shock was something I remembered and made sure I didn't do it again, and I'm not talking about knocking 7 bells of shit out of your kids, just a proper firm punishment. I can't see for the life of me how certain crimes can be treated in any other way as the perpetrator being removed from society for the safety of others. That and the deterrent factor. Have you never seen a mate of yours do something, and get punished for it in such a way that you have said to yourself, "I'll make sure I never do that?"

 

How have we arrived at a situation in this country where someone can grab hold of a kid or whatever breaking into your house, damaging your property, yet if you lay a hand on him you end up in court for "assault". What a complete load of bollocks.

 

As for your last sentence mate, we all have to go through life being told what to do now and again......

[Rob W 0]

I'll settle for that post......................