Luques performance today.

[Guest Sima]

If we'd kept Bellamy somehow and then still gone for Owen (quite possible with Shepherd) how far would he have thrown the toys out of his pram (again)?

21886[/snapback]

 

 

errr...if we had kept Bellamy, we probably wouldn't be 2nd bottom of the league...

nor would we be in a position of spending millions of pounds to replace him [that we might not have] and could use the money to replace Alan Shearer instead....

21943[/snapback]

 

 

Theres also the fact that Bellamy and Owen would be our first choice strike partnership under any manger with half a brain, and i would hate to be a defender havign to cope with stopping both of them!

21961[/snapback]

 

They'd be alright as long as the ball wasn't in the air.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

If we'd kept Bellamy somehow and then still gone for Owen (quite possible with Shepherd) how far would he have thrown the toys out of his pram (again)?

21886[/snapback]

 

 

errr...if we had kept Bellamy, we probably wouldn't be 2nd bottom of the league...

nor would we be in a position of spending millions of pounds to replace him [that we might not have] and could use the money to replace Alan Shearer instead....

21943[/snapback]

 

 

Theres also the fact that Bellamy and Owen would be our first choice strike partnership under any manger with half a brain, and i would hate to be a defender havign to cope with stopping both of them!

21961[/snapback]

 

They'd be alright as long as the ball wasn't in the air.

21963[/snapback]

 

And thats the way we all like our footy played, on the ground!

 

Anyway i've always been impressed with how often Owen scores with headers considering his height.

[LeazesMag 0]

If we'd kept Bellamy somehow and then still gone for Owen (quite possible with Shepherd) how far would he have thrown the toys out of his pram (again)?

21886[/snapback]

 

 

errr...if we had kept Bellamy, we probably wouldn't be 2nd bottom of the league...

nor would we be in a position of spending millions of pounds to replace him [that we might not have] and could use the money to replace Alan Shearer instead....

21943[/snapback]

 

 

Theres also the fact that Bellamy and Owen would be our first choice strike partnership under any manger with half a brain, and i would hate to be a defender havign to cope with stopping both of them!

21961[/snapback]

 

Absolutely.

 

Just think, if we sign Owen for 18m quid, Souness will have been handed 48m quid in 12 months to strengthen a team that was 5th in the league.

 

And not a penny of it has gone to replace Shearer, thanks to Souness.

 

Looks like Shepherd will be told he's a greedy bastard for not splashing the cash again in a years time eh !!!

[Wor Al 0]

I see the game properly, because I am there.

 

Yes, I’m ’sure if you put a donkey there, the donkey will see the game properly, too! No point in trusting someone’s opinion when they’re shit observers.

 

I saw that Kluivert was a fat waster who wouldn't break sweat for Newcastle, and for some reason you still think differently.

 

So now you want to talk about Kluivert again?!

 

His work rate may have been poor, but so was Robert’s, Jenas’, Ameobi’s(it always has been!), Babayaro etc. Kluivert is a class player, we used him incorrectly, thanks to the idiot in charge and our crappy fitness staff. I bet many people would love to still have Kluivert now!

 

Quite often my "judgement" as you call it turns out correct, it did in Kluiverts case anyway, and it did with Ameobi's too.

 

 

You made your mind up about Kluivert before he even signed. Whenever I disagreed with you about Kluivert (last season), it’s because you’ve never given him a chance, you were always on his back. And you’re obviously doing the same on Luque.

 

I’ve never ever said that Kluivert will turn out to be a success; I simply gave him a proper chance. Whenever he played, he generally done well. But you were never going to say it….because you didn’t want to admit that you were wrong. Childish.

 

 

Find me saying that Dyer, Jenas and Ameobi give everything for Newcastle,

 

I never said that you did. My point was that you treat foreigners differently than the English players. They’re foreigner…..oh they must be lazy, mercenaries, trouble makers, steal our women… blah blah blah.

 

 

especially Ameobi being anything other than hopeless, who the majority of people a year ago said was Shearers natural replacement. Were you one of those?

 

I saw nothing special in Ameobi from the day he made his first team debut, against Chelsea. Would be a decent pack-up, when playing well, but nothing more.

 

Or are you just someone who wear rose tinted specs and thinks because someone signs for the toon they must be brilliant because they play for the toon?

 

What kind of daft question is that?! We have many crap and average players, like Carr, Babayaro, Elliott etc. I have no problem admitting that!

Edited August 29, 2005 by Omar

[LeazesMag 0]

Omar. I saw the way you goaded HTL into making true statements that forced the race card being played and HTL being banned from the old site.

 

You aren't going to pull that stunt on me

 

So. I'll just say once and once only. You talk the biggest load of utter shite that I have read so far on this forum.

 

You know absolutely sweet fuck all about this football club. So don't bother answering my posts, with your replies, they are utter complete total crap.

 

All of them.

 

I will answer one question about Kluivert, because apart from convincing yourself I am HTL, this is what is bugging you isn't it, the fact that I said correctly your fat bone idle mate would be a waste of space.

 

Yes, I thought he would be a waste of space. So fucking what ? It was based on how he played for Barcelona. When someone signs a player for a football club, they do it on the basis of judging how they have performed for their previous club, and so make a judgement before he has signed. I did that, as a fan.

 

So, I'm not "abusing" you, I'm only disagreeing with you, and I have better things to do than argue the toss, which is proven, and sealed. You have your opinion, I have mine. End it. Give it a rest. He's gone and he was crap when he was here.

Edited August 29, 2005 by LeazesMag

[sammynb 3508]

I think Wenger's Arsenal are very similar to KK's United. No real tactics, no real system designed to shut out or stop the opposition, just a group of highly talented and motivated players told to go out, expresse themselves and to win.

 

I've noticed when Arsenal do play to a system or try to adopt tactics, they perform under par. Just like we used to. I imagine it's like boxing them in and telling them to climb walls that otherwise weren't there.

 

That said, I think in Europe, you can't just send your team out and say right, you just play and beat the opposition. Barcelona came unstuck against Chelsea last season and Arsenal always come unstuck. Due in the main to tactics.

 

Maybe the game is changing so fast, Arsenal will have to adapt or die?

21885[/snapback]

 

Funny, as I was reading the last 6 pages I was thinking the same thing and how last season Arsenal had also lost a lot of that movement. Pires and Ljundberg have lost some of their pace and stamina and you can see it in the way the team now plays more of a shape than the season prior total football style. Maybe with the younger players coming through they may find it again but I think we will see a slight decline in their performance.

 

As for formations and tactics, why does everyone seem to thing this is a new thing?

The 1974 World Cup and The Netherlands showed the world what total football could do, how attractive it was with pass and move.

Then they faced West Germany and the world saw how the beautiful game could be stopped. Rigid formations, hard tackling, "proper players" kicking the life out of the Dutch squad.

The difference between a crap and a brilliant manager is the crap one can send a team out using their formation and stick with it through thick and thin and a brilliant manager can start the game with one shape, see it's not working and change it. The first uses formations, the other understands tactics.

[Guest alex]

I think Robert could have offered more.

 

Seemed to amble around flattering to decieve - hitting the first man with his corners and totally untroubling the keeper at set pieces. Seemed to want one touch too many on a few of his more attacking moments.

 

One decent cross admittedly - but too little too late. Jury will be firmly out on this fella till I see him a few more times.

20811[/snapback]

You could have been describing 90% of Robert's matches there to be honest.

[LeazesMag 0]

I think Wenger's Arsenal are very similar to KK's United. No real tactics, no real system designed to shut out or stop the opposition, just a group of highly talented and motivated players told to go out, expresse themselves and to win.

 

I've noticed when Arsenal do play to a system or try to adopt tactics, they perform under par. Just like we used to. I imagine it's like boxing them in and telling them to climb walls that otherwise weren't there.

 

That said, I think in Europe, you can't just send your team out and say right, you just play and beat the opposition. Barcelona came unstuck against Chelsea last season and Arsenal always come unstuck. Due in the main to tactics.

 

Maybe the game is changing so fast, Arsenal will have to adapt or die?

21885[/snapback]

 

Funny, as I was reading the last 6 pages I was thinking the same thing and how last season Arsenal had also lost a lot of that movement. Pires and Ljundberg have lost some of their pace and stamina and you can see it in the way the team now plays more of a shape than the season prior total football style. Maybe with the younger players coming through they may find it again but I think we will see a slight decline in their performance.

 

As for formations and tactics, why does everyone seem to thing this is a new thing?

The 1974 World Cup and The Netherlands showed the world what total football could do, how attractive it was with pass and move.

Then they faced West Germany and the world saw how the beautiful game could be stopped. Rigid formations, hard tackling, "proper players" kicking the life out of the Dutch squad.

The difference between a crap and a brilliant manager is the crap one can send a team out using their formation and stick with it through thick and thin and a brilliant manager can start the game with one shape, see it's not working and change it. The first uses formations, the other understands tactics.

22216[/snapback]

 

That is right, and going slightly off tack back to the manager topic, thats why I think Wenger could be tempted to come to Newcastle. Only he knows how he really rates his younger players, but if he feels he needs to rebuild, then so do we and it would be a new challenge for someone like him, and someone with his standards and achievements wouldn't turn it down because it was too big for him like some others have done.

[Wor Al 0]

Omar. I saw the way you goaded HTL into making true statements that forced the race card being played and HTL being banned from the old site.

 

 

What absoulte crap! I didn't do anything about them! It was the moderators that didn't like the statement. Anyway, I'm not too bothered about what you and HTL say. You two are not bright enough when it to comes to such subjects. You just listen to any old fat duffer in the pub.

 

So. I'll just say once and once only. You talk the biggest load of utter shite that I have read so far on this forum.

 

I think the same thing about your posts too, to be honest. And the funny thing is....you actually believe that you talk sense!

 

You know absolutely sweet fuck all about this football club. So don't bother answering my posts, with your replies, they are utter complete total crap.

 

Well, I think the same whenever I read your crap posts, too!

 

BTW, it was you who replyed to me on this thread.

 

apart from convincing yourself I am HTL

 

for fucks sake just grow up! I will write this in big letters, so hopefully you'll understand-

 

I DO NOT THINK YOU'RE HTL! I NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL!

 

Not once have I said that you were HTL! So what's your fucking problem?! Paranoid git!

 

So, I'm not "abusing" you,

 

 

Did I say that you were abusing me?!! No!

 

You're stange, mate!

 

I'm only disagreeing with you

 

Fair enough, but disagreeing with someone is something you turm into personal abuse. Everyone knows your history!

 

and I have better things to do than argue the toss, which is proven

 

yeah...going around moaning about being banned from forums for nearly a year, some kind of misjustice blah blah.... . I assure you that you didn't look pathetic back then.

 

And as for me talking all crap, read this from HTT, me and you were debating Bellamy-

 

LM said:

"If you are a better team, and if a player has desire to succeed and trains hard and wants to be a better player, and is demanding, then he is manageable"

Omar said:

"Once again, I agree there. But we have a manager with a very poor manmanagment skills (no wonder he kept the "yes" man O'Brien!). Bringing Bellamy back will just cause more trouble between them. Let's just hope, in the summer, Souness finds a better player than Bellamy. It's not impossible. "

 

 

So, do you think Owen is a worse player than Bellamy?! You were there sitting and moaning about Bellamy going, like we will never see someone like him at the toon again! And I was there saying that it's not out of the question that we'll replace him with a better player.

Yeah... well said, LM!

Edited August 30, 2005 by Omar

[LeazesMag 0]

I was moaning about Bellamy going, simply because I have more experience of the reality of supporting Newcastle than you Omar !!!

 

And then, I said, as I've always done, Shepherd backs his managers to the hilt !!

 

Move on ........

 

Reckon you should dig out those links though rather than just quote a phrase...if you have kept them you must have a desperate problem like. "Bellamy is better than Owen" Indeed ? Where ? Don't make silly quotes which are not true or you really are being a desperate pillock.

 

Move on.....

[Wor Al 0]

I was moaning about Bellamy going, simply because I have more experience of the reality of supporting Newcastle than you Omar !!!

 

23359[/snapback]

 

I was right, you were wrong.

 

And then, I said, as I've always done, Shepherd backs his managers to the hilt !!

 

Except in the summer of 2003, when we lost to partizan and, to this day, we still haven’t recovered!

 

. "Bellamy is better than Owen" Indeed ? Where ? Don't make silly quotes which are not true or you really are being a desperate pillock.

 

mate, what the fuck you're on about? Once again you're saying strange stuff! Who said Bellamy is better than Owen? Come on provide the quote?!!!

 

 

Reckon you should dig out those links though rather than just quote a phrase...if you have kept them you must have a desperate problem like

 

luckly there aren't many threads on HTT, so it was easy to find!

Here's the link if you want it, http://s3.invisionfree.com/Howaythetoon/in...topic=446&st=10

 

the 3rd post from the end.

 

making silly qoutes am I?

 

 

Please try to understand my posts before posting! Cheers.

Edited August 30, 2005 by Omar

[LeazesMag 0]

I've looked through the link. At no time do I mention Michael Owen. Then you asked me in your earlier post Do I think Bellamy is better than Owen ?

 

What are you on about, are you on drugs ?

 

I haven't got a clue what you are on about in the first sentence of your last thread above.

 

In the summer of 2003, we went into that summer with a net transfer deficit of well over 50m quid in the previous 4-5 years. If that is why we didn't buy anyone, then it's understandable if disappointing unless you are one of those who thinks they are playing championship manager with monopoly money. Fact is, Shepherd has backed his managers, more than any Newcastle other chairman between the 1950's [at least] and 1992, and in the last decade we are the 3rd biggest spenders in the premiership, only pushed into 2nd place since Abramovic bought Chelsea.

 

So when exactly did you start supporting Newcastle ?

 

Don't bother telling me you are right and I am wrong here, check the figures. All our transfer dealings, in and out, over the last 12 years since Keegan became manager, are on NUFC.com

 

This is the last reply I'm making to your rants Omar. I'm not wasting any more time putting facts across unless you can prove they are incorrect.

Edited August 30, 2005 by LeazesMag

[Wor Al 0]

Jesus christ! I'm not going to bother with clowns like you!

[LeazesMag 0]

Jesus christ! I'm not going to bother with clowns like you!

23413[/snapback]

 

surely you mean Allah

[Howaythetoon 0]

Bellamy is a better footballer than Owen in my opinion, contributes more, works harder, has more facets to his game, but as a goalscorer...

 

Two very very different players though and unfair to compare I'd say.

 

I will say this though, I did not think we would replace Bellamy with Owen.

[Wor Al 0]

Jesus christ! I'm not going to bother with clowns like you!

23413[/snapback]

 

surely you mean Allah

23418[/snapback]

 

 

This proves that you really aren't bright enough Here's 2 little lessons for you, LM.

 

Lesson 1. Muslims do believe in Jesus Christ.

 

Lesson 2. Not every Arabic person is Muslim, there are many christians and even Jews.

 

Get it? Or is it too complicated for your brain?

Edited August 30, 2005 by Omar

[LeazesMag 0]

Bellamy is a better footballer than Owen in my opinion, contributes more, works harder, has more facets to his game, but as a goalscorer...

 

Two very very different players though and unfair to compare I'd say.

 

I will say this though, I did not think we would replace Bellamy with Owen.

23424[/snapback]

 

Neither did I or I suspect, anyone.

 

Shame we haven't got Bellamy and Owen together, because Owen is certainly one of the few players with the standing and ability to replace Shearer. We couldn't do any better than this.

 

Anyway, the season starts now. It's been a great day and we should all be very pleased, but I can't help feeling any success we have now, and better results will still be in spite of Souness rather than because of him. I obviously hope he proves me wrong .......

 

Now if we could only swap Jenas for Carrick, and get what we paid for Viana to offset todays spending....

[LeazesMag 0]

Jesus christ! I'm not going to bother with clowns like you!

23413[/snapback]

 

surely you mean Allah

23418[/snapback]

 

 

This proves that you really aren't bright enough Here's 2 little lessons for you, LM.

 

Lesson 1. Muslims do believe in Jesus Christ.

 

Lesson 2. Not every Arabic person is Muslim, there are many christians and even Jews.

 

Get it? Or is it too complicated for your brain?

23427[/snapback]

 

I know they do yer daft bugger man ...

[Wor Al 0]

Jesus christ! I'm not going to bother with clowns like you!

23413[/snapback]

 

surely you mean Allah

23418[/snapback]

 

 

This proves that you really aren't bright enough Here's 2 little lessons for you, LM.

 

Lesson 1. Muslims do believe in Jesus Christ.

 

Lesson 2. Not every Arabic person is Muslim, there are many christians and even Jews.

 

Get it? Or is it too complicated for your brain?

23427[/snapback]

 

I know they do yer daft bugger man ...

23440[/snapback]

 

yeah right!

[Howaythetoon 0]

Bellamy is a better footballer than Owen in my opinion, contributes more, works harder, has more facets to his game, but as a goalscorer...

 

Two very very different players though and unfair to compare I'd say.

 

I will say this though, I did not think we would replace Bellamy with Owen.

23424[/snapback]

 

Neither did I or I suspect, anyone.

 

Shame we haven't got Bellamy and Owen together, because Owen is certainly one of the few players with the standing and ability to replace Shearer. We couldn't do any better than this.

 

Anyway, the season starts now. It's been a great day and we should all be very pleased, but I can't help feeling any success we have now, and better results will still be in spite of Souness rather than because of him. I obviously hope he proves me wrong .......

 

Now if we could only swap Jenas for Carrick, and get what we paid for Viana to offset todays spending....

23435[/snapback]

 

Could Bellamy and Owen play in the same team? I'm unsure.

 

I echo your sentiments RE Souness. I know I have been very patient with him but he now has his team and his centre-forward and he has now been backed by FS. No more excuses now. Top 5 is the bare minimum we should accept now, given the crap and the excuses we have had to put up with.

 

Can he deliver? Stranger things have happened. I think with a bit of luck and given how rank the rest of the League are the top 4 aside, I don't see why not.

 

He has 5 games to pick up as many points as he can, if he can't do that, sack him because the up coming games are very much winable, especially given the new additions.

 

12 points from 5 games will be acceptable to me. Anything under and it will not.

[LeazesMag 0]

Bellamy is a better footballer than Owen in my opinion, contributes more, works harder, has more facets to his game, but as a goalscorer...

 

Two very very different players though and unfair to compare I'd say.

 

I will say this though, I did not think we would replace Bellamy with Owen.

23424[/snapback]

 

Neither did I or I suspect, anyone.

 

Shame we haven't got Bellamy and Owen together, because Owen is certainly one of the few players with the standing and ability to replace Shearer. We couldn't do any better than this.

 

Anyway, the season starts now. It's been a great day and we should all be very pleased, but I can't help feeling any success we have now, and better results will still be in spite of Souness rather than because of him. I obviously hope he proves me wrong .......

 

Now if we could only swap Jenas for Carrick, and get what we paid for Viana to offset todays spending....

23435[/snapback]

 

Could Bellamy and Owen play in the same team? I'm unsure.

 

I'm with you there, on paper it looks an unlikely combination, but good players learn to adapt, Shearer and Ferdinand supposedly were similar, but the worked hard in training and worked situations out between them. Then made the very thought that 2 such fantastic players couldn't play together look daft didn't they ....

I mean Owen is a strong little bugger you know, he can hold the ball up, and at least when Bellamy shot away chasing a ball out from someone he would look up and find someone up with him

 

I echo your sentiments RE Souness. I know I have been very patient with him but he now has his team and his centre-forward and he has now been backed by FS. No more excuses now. Top 5 is the bare minimum we should accept now, given the crap and the excuses we have had to put up with.

 

Can he deliver? Stranger things have happened. I think with a bit of luck and given how rank the rest of the League are the top 4 aside, I don't see why not.

 

Well his time starts now thats for sure. He has to get us back into europe at least there is no excuses. I also have a vision of Owen scoring those winners in the FA Cup Final for Liverpool too [did he score both goals?], because he isn't just a top goalscorer, he is a player who seems to score important goals too, when they really matter.

 

He has 5 games to pick up as many points as he can, if he can't do that, sack him because the up coming games are very much winable, especially given the new additions.

 

12 points from 5 games will be acceptable to me. Anything under and it will not.

23463[/snapback]

 

We have proved a few times in the last few years, a european spot can be achieved after a poor start. Now we have a chance Souness time starts today.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Bellamy and Owen could play together, and even if they didn't gel perfectly you'd have one of europes top goals scorers with pace and pne of the fastes players in the game with great movement and an imporoving eye for goal. Defences would ahev shit themselves quite frankly and would have been pulled all over the place. Also it would mean we had to pass the ball on the deck more which i'm sure everybody would want.

[Howaythetoon 0]

LM, good point regarding Shearer and Sir Les. I guess it's like Owen and Defoe.

 

I think with Owen and Bellamy, we'd have to play great football on the deck to get the best out of both, ala the way Arsenal play, because they aren't going to plant headers from crosses or deliver knock downs to runners.

 

Mind, Owen is quite good in the air and Bellamy scored a few canny goals with his bonce.

 

We'll never know.

 

One thing that does concern me about Owen, he's not one of those strikers you can pair with anyone, if you look through his career, all his managers have struggled to find him the right partner. I always thought he looked great with Litmanen in the side and an Owen/Kluivert partnership could work. But he's gone now.

 

Anelka and him looked a decent pair when they were at Liverpool.

[LeazesMag 0]

Litmanen was a top player as well.

 

Agree with both of you, you and PL, top players would work at it and make it work, Owen and Bellamy would have been top class, you just play to their strengths and the opposotion would always need 2 players plus a covering player to look after them.

 

For instance it always pisses me off when we do something like bring everyone back for corners and free kicks etc. You are conceding ground to the opposition and helping them to keep you in your own half. When we had Bellamy the opposition always needed 2 players to stay back and mark him, with Owen and Dyer they would need 3. They are always vulnerable to a quick ball out, it gives you a terrific advantage to have players that can turn defenders like that and enables you to gain ground and open space, it's so basic. Putting pressure on teams is all about forcing them backwards, keeping the ball and stopping them from attacking you in their own numbers. The top teams do it. We did it under Keegan. Teams would have been shit scared of Owen and Bellamys pace.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Litmanen was a top player as well.

 

Agree with both of you, you and PL, top players would work at it and make it work, Owen and Bellamy would have been top class, you just play to their strengths and the opposotion would always need 2 players plus a covering player to look after them.

 

For instance it always pisses me off when we do something like bring everyone back for corners and free kicks etc. You are conceding ground to the opposition and helping them to keep you in your own half. When we had Bellamy the opposition always needed 2 players to stay back and mark him, with Owen and Dyer they would need 3. They are always vulnerable to a quick ball out, it gives you a terrific advantage to have players that can turn defenders like that and enables you to gain ground and open space, it's so basic. Putting pressure on teams is all about forcing them backwards, keeping the ball and stopping them from attacking you in their own numbers. The top teams do it. We did it under Keegan. Teams would have been shit scared of Owen and Bellamys pace.

23718[/snapback]

 

On corners, good observation. I think we should leave thje quickest attacker up top plus a wide man as those two areas of the field are going to be the areas the ball will go to if cleared in that way. Spot on, we could also work on throw-ins too. In fact set pieces in general, at both ends. That's been a weakness of ours since Dalglish's days.

 

As for the pace of Owen and Bellamy, a frightening thought.

 

I backed the club over Bellamy and still do but I do wonder what he's thinking right now because I'm sure he would have loved to play alongside the quality of Emre, Luque, Parker and Owen and it would have been a treat for us lot too.

 

Ah well.