Peter Ramage

[David Kelly 1224]

Rammage was doing ok with Taylor (who was looking brilliant) before his injury. Since he came back though he's had a really awfull run of games and I think everyone was relieved when he had to go off on Saturday.

But anyone like Ramage who gives his all every game doesn't deserve to to be abused. Any player is fair game for criticism but sometimes people go way over the top. I can understand it for players like Luque or Marcelino who don't give a fuck but if someone's trying their best (whether they are good enough or not) they deserve better.

[Guest alex]

Rammage was doing ok with Taylor (who was looking brilliant) before his injury. Since he came back though he's had a really awfull run of games and I think everyone was relieved when he had to go off on Saturday.

But anyone like Ramage who gives his all every game doesn't deserve to to be abused. Any player is fair game for criticism but sometimes people go way over the top. I can understand it for players like Luque or Marcelino who don't give a fuck but if someone's trying their best (whether they are good enough or not) they deserve better.

Spot on, couldn't agree more.

[Matty 0]

The two big lads upfront just bullied our centre-halves (too easiloy). We looked better there when Ramage went off but I think West Ham also played with less ambition once they were 2-0 up which helped us at the back a bit. The way we started though, I thought another hammering was on the cards.

 

 

 

Too easy tbh.

[Guest alex]

The two big lads upfront just bullied our centre-halves (too easiloy). We looked better there when Ramage went off but I think West Ham also played with less ambition once they were 2-0 up which helped us at the back a bit. The way we started though, I thought another hammering was on the cards.

 

 

 

Too easy tbh.

Too easily shirley

[acrossthepond 874]

Ramage is utter, no-holds-barred, take-no-prisoners shit. He needs to go. But it's not like the Toon is going to invest in any defenders, so we may as well accept that we're stuck with Solano's Barmy Army until Bramble and Baba are fit (at which point our defence becomes worse, if possible.)

[Guest alex]

Ramage is utter, no-holds-barred, take-no-prisoners shit. He needs to go. But it's not like the Toon is going to invest in any defenders, so we may as well accept that we're stuck with Solano's Barmy Army until Bramble and Baba are fit (at which point our defence becomes worse, if possible.)

What does that make Babayaro and Bramble by the way?

[Sima 0]

Rammage was doing ok with Taylor (who was looking brilliant) before his injury. Since he came back though he's had a really awfull run of games and I think everyone was relieved when he had to go off on Saturday.

But anyone like Ramage who gives his all every game doesn't deserve to to be abused. Any player is fair game for criticism but sometimes people go way over the top. I can understand it for players like Luque or Marcelino who don't give a fuck but if someone's trying their best (whether they are good enough or not) they deserve better.

 

I'd give my all if I was playing for Newcastle, I'd be shit though and I'd deserve the abuse i'd get for being so incompetent at my job.

 

Ramage is a fucking useless footballer who, if there was any justice in the world, would be playing in at least League One by now. Players like him are the reason we are so incompetent at the back and will never go anywhere.

[adios 717]

Ramage is utter, no-holds-barred, take-no-prisoners shit. He needs to go. But it's not like the Toon is going to invest in any defenders, so we may as well accept that we're stuck with Solano's Barmy Army until Bramble and Baba are fit (at which point our defence becomes worse, if possible.)

What does that make Babayaro and Bramble by the way?

 

Ramage is a mediocre Division 1 defender, so out of his depth against mediocre Premiership opposition, that it's horrific to watch.

 

Bramble is a colossus, blessed with physical might, stamina, celerity, dexterity, and the mind of a goldfish.

 

Babayaro's just sort of ...average, isn't he?

[Guest alex]

Ramage is utter, no-holds-barred, take-no-prisoners shit. He needs to go. But it's not like the Toon is going to invest in any defenders, so we may as well accept that we're stuck with Solano's Barmy Army until Bramble and Baba are fit (at which point our defence becomes worse, if possible.)

What does that make Babayaro and Bramble by the way?

 

Ramage is a mediocre Division 1 defender, so out of his depth against mediocre Premiership opposition, that it's horrific to watch.

 

Bramble is a colossus, blessed with physical might, stamina, celerity, dexterity, and the mind of a goldfish.

 

Babayaro's just sort of ...average, isn't he?

I was just amused by the description of Ramage and given ATP thought Bramble and Babayaro coming back would make the defence worse, I was wondering what ATP might have to say about them two. I rate Bramble as better than Ramage but I think we both agree what a bad partnership the former makes when he and Taylor play back there.

[David Kelly 1224]

Rammage was doing ok with Taylor (who was looking brilliant) before his injury. Since he came back though he's had a really awfull run of games and I think everyone was relieved when he had to go off on Saturday.

But anyone like Ramage who gives his all every game doesn't deserve to to be abused. Any player is fair game for criticism but sometimes people go way over the top. I can understand it for players like Luque or Marcelino who don't give a fuck but if someone's trying their best (whether they are good enough or not) they deserve better.

 

I'd give my all if I was playing for Newcastle, I'd be shit though and I'd deserve the abuse i'd get for being so incompetent at my job.

 

Ramage is a fucking useless footballer who, if there was any justice in the world, would be playing in at least League One by now. Players like him are the reason we are so incompetent at the back and will never go anywhere.

No you would deserve pity is imagine.

 

Ramage is trying his best to his job and it's not his fault if he doesn't have the ability then it's the managements fault for not having put someone in place who can.

 

Personally I don't think he's anything like as bad as some would make him out but I agree we should have better than him available to us. Mind you he's only forth choice and I would doubt many other clubs have better than him as their forth choice centreback!

[adios 717]

I was just amused by the description of Ramage and given ATP thought Bramble and Babayaro coming back would make the defence worse, I was wondering what ATP might have to say about them two. I rate Bramble as better than Ramage but I think we both agree what a bad partnership the former makes when he and Taylor play back there.

 

Ah right, get you know. I was thinking it would be hard to find 3 players at the club who were more different.

 

I think Ramage is way out of his depth, I'd even put Taylor and Bramble together before Ramage and Taylor, at the moment, that's how lowly I rate him, but I also think that the pressure he's under and the lack of confidence is making him worse than he actually is.

 

And I can't agree the crowd have some sort of divine right to give players abuse because they pay their wages, but as a footballer (or anyone in the public eye) taking abuse from the mooing masses is the price on the ticket. I'd still probably swap my career in an instant for that of even an "out of his depth" Premiership defender.

 

It's all well and good complaining about how crap Bramble is, but we have to work with what we've got, and under the current circumstances, Bramble would be one of the first names on my team sheet.

 

Hope that all makes some sense.

[Guest alex]

I was just amused by the description of Ramage and given ATP thought Bramble and Babayaro coming back would make the defence worse, I was wondering what ATP might have to say about them two. I rate Bramble as better than Ramage but I think we both agree what a bad partnership the former makes when he and Taylor play back there.

 

Ah right, get you know. I was thinking it would be hard to find 3 players at the club who were more different.

 

I think Ramage is way out of his depth, I'd even put Taylor and Bramble together before Ramage and Taylor, at the moment, that's how lowly I rate him, but I also think that the pressure he's under and the lack of confidence is making him worse than he actually is.

 

And I can't agree the crowd have some sort of divine right to give players abuse because they pay their wages, but as a footballer (or anyone in the public eye) taking abuse from the mooing masses is the price on the ticket. I'd still probably swap my career in an instant for that of even an "out of his depth" Premiership defender.

 

It's all well and good complaining about how crap Bramble is, but we have to work with what we've got, and under the current circumstances, Bramble would be one of the first names on my team sheet.

 

Hope that all makes some sense.

Aye, I think Ramage has been found out of late (by no means just Saturday either - the last three games could have all ended in heavy defeat imo). On top of that his confidence is shot. And he's injured. So aye, drop him.

[Gemmill 44498]

And I can't agree the crowd have some sort of divine right to give players abuse because they pay their wages, but as a footballer (or anyone in the public eye) taking abuse from the mooing masses is the price on the ticket. I'd still probably swap my career in an instant for that of even an "out of his depth" Premiership defender.

 

Just thinking about what you've said there, and this isn't specifically aimed at Ramage, but wouldn't you think that a player in his position would, recognising the fantastic opportunity he's been given, do everything he can to get better at his job. If I was a relatively poor Premiership defender (or any other position for that matter, but centre half is a good example as it's possible to be a very good functional centre half without being a hugely naturally gifted footballer, probably more so than any other position on the pitch), I would be working my ring off to try and get better given that the alternative is a huge drop in wages and Championship football, or worse.

 

If a player like Ramage or Bramble really put the effort in and approached Roeder and confessed to their knowledge of their failings, and expressed a desire to do extra training sessions, review the tapes of their play or whatever, they could make a big difference to the rest of their careers. The money and the place in the first team sometimes just comes too easily.

[adios 717]

And I can't agree the crowd have some sort of divine right to give players abuse because they pay their wages, but as a footballer (or anyone in the public eye) taking abuse from the mooing masses is the price on the ticket. I'd still probably swap my career in an instant for that of even an "out of his depth" Premiership defender.

 

Just thinking about what you've said there, and this isn't specifically aimed at Ramage, but wouldn't you think that a player in his position would, recognising the fantastic opportunity he's been given, do everything he can to get better at his job. If I was a relatively poor Premiership defender (or any other position for that matter, but centre half is a good example as it's possible to be a very good functional centre half without being a hugely naturally gifted footballer, probably more so than any other position on the pitch), I would be working my ring off to try and get better given that the alternative is a huge drop in wages and Championship football, or worse.

 

If a player like Ramage or Bramble really put the effort in and approached Roeder and confessed to their knowledge of their failings, and expressed a desire to do extra training sessions, review the tapes of their play or whatever, they could make a big difference to the rest of their careers. The money and the place in the first team sometimes just comes too easily.

 

Honestly, I think if things were as straight forward as that the World would be a much different place. I'm constantly amazed at our ability to fuck up much simpler things than that. There's a plethora of reasons why people can't make the 'simple' changes in their lives/careers to make things better for themselves. How easy would it have been for Murray to centre himself today, when he had Nadal on the ropes, and finish the job? And that's just one moment in the career of a sportsman, who must value psychology as probably the single most important factor of success in his chosen sport (apart, maybe, from having legs).

 

And why is Gemmill the one to raise the point about showing the required effort and commitment to succeed?

 

[Gemmill 44498]

And I can't agree the crowd have some sort of divine right to give players abuse because they pay their wages, but as a footballer (or anyone in the public eye) taking abuse from the mooing masses is the price on the ticket. I'd still probably swap my career in an instant for that of even an "out of his depth" Premiership defender.

 

Just thinking about what you've said there, and this isn't specifically aimed at Ramage, but wouldn't you think that a player in his position would, recognising the fantastic opportunity he's been given, do everything he can to get better at his job. If I was a relatively poor Premiership defender (or any other position for that matter, but centre half is a good example as it's possible to be a very good functional centre half without being a hugely naturally gifted footballer, probably more so than any other position on the pitch), I would be working my ring off to try and get better given that the alternative is a huge drop in wages and Championship football, or worse.

 

If a player like Ramage or Bramble really put the effort in and approached Roeder and confessed to their knowledge of their failings, and expressed a desire to do extra training sessions, review the tapes of their play or whatever, they could make a big difference to the rest of their careers. The money and the place in the first team sometimes just comes too easily.

 

Honestly, I think if things were as straight forward as that the World would be a much different place. I'm constantly amazed at our ability to fuck up much simpler things than that. There's a plethora of reasons why people can't make the 'simple' changes in their lives/careers to make things better for themselves. How easy would it have been for Murray to centre himself today, when he had Nadal on the ropes, and finish the job? And that's just one moment in the career of a sportsman, who must value psychology as probably the single most important factor of success in his chosen sport (apart, maybe, from having legs).

 

And why is Gemmill the one to raise the point about showing the required effort and commitment to succeed?

 

 

 

Cheeky fucker. I know what you mean, but in an industry where it costs millions to find replacements that are no more than promising (Curtis Davies), your average young Premiership footballer is an asset worth investing in by the club. But only if they show the desire and wherewithall to at least TRY to make the difference. I know what you're saying like, it's not as easy as just saying "Well why don't you just be better than you are, cos then you wouldn't be so crap?", but defending in football is a game of situations and knowing what to do and what not to do in certain situations (poker-tastic pep talk ) - obviously there's a lot more to it than just that, but that situational play can be taught and it can be learnt, and the likes of Bramble and Ramage play like it's never even been mentioned to them.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Rammage was doing ok with Taylor (who was looking brilliant) before his injury. Since he came back though he's had a really awfull run of games and I think everyone was relieved when he had to go off on Saturday.

But anyone like Ramage who gives his all every game doesn't deserve to to be abused. Any player is fair game for criticism but sometimes people go way over the top. I can understand it for players like Luque or Marcelino who don't give a fuck but if someone's trying their best (whether they are good enough or not) they deserve better.

 

This

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Rammage was doing ok with Taylor (who was looking brilliant) before his injury. Since he came back though he's had a really awfull run of games and I think everyone was relieved when he had to go off on Saturday.

But anyone like Ramage who gives his all every game doesn't deserve to to be abused. Any player is fair game for criticism but sometimes people go way over the top. I can understand it for players like Luque or Marcelino who don't give a fuck but if someone's trying their best (whether they are good enough or not) they deserve better.

 

I'd give my all if I was playing for Newcastle, I'd be shit though and I'd deserve the abuse i'd get for being so incompetent at my job.

 

Ramage is a fucking useless footballer who, if there was any justice in the world, would be playing in at least League One by now. Players like him are the reason we are so incompetent at the back and will never go anywhere.

No you would deserve pity is imagine.

 

Ramage is trying his best to his job and it's not his fault if he doesn't have the ability then it's the managements fault for not having put someone in place who can.

 

Personally I don't think he's anything like as bad as some would make him out but I agree we should have better than him available to us. Mind you he's only forth choice and I would doubt many other clubs have better than him as their forth choice centreback!

Agree totally with both of Kelly's posts. It's hardly Ramage's fault we haven't got anyone better than him.

 

And I can't agree the crowd have some sort of divine right to give players abuse because they pay their wages, but as a footballer (or anyone in the public eye) taking abuse from the mooing masses is the price on the ticket. I'd still probably swap my career in an instant for that of even an "out of his depth" Premiership defender.

 

Just thinking about what you've said there, and this isn't specifically aimed at Ramage, but wouldn't you think that a player in his position would, recognising the fantastic opportunity he's been given, do everything he can to get better at his job. If I was a relatively poor Premiership defender (or any other position for that matter, but centre half is a good example as it's possible to be a very good functional centre half without being a hugely naturally gifted footballer, probably more so than any other position on the pitch), I would be working my ring off to try and get better given that the alternative is a huge drop in wages and Championship football, or worse.

 

If a player like Ramage or Bramble really put the effort in and approached Roeder and confessed to their knowledge of their failings, and expressed a desire to do extra training sessions, review the tapes of their play or whatever, they could make a big difference to the rest of their careers. The money and the place in the first team sometimes just comes too easily.

Agree with Gemmill. The fact that Titus has all the physical tools for the job makes it even more frustrating that he doesn't appear to have done any work on his mental / concentration shortfalls.

[Sicklee Sausage Roll 0]

Taylor's in a different league to Ramage, but I'm starting to grow tired of his over-enthusiastic, chest-puffed out 'this is a job for superman' style posturing.

[gram 0]

Taylor's in a different league to Ramage, but I'm starting to grow tired of his over-enthusiastic, chest-puffed out 'this is a job for superman' style posturing.

He isnt anywhere near the outstanding as Alan Oliver likes to call him. Nor has he been of late.

Still think the best centre half performance of the season was Titus at Arsenal. Thats why he is so frustrating. Any mong can see he has way more to his game than the likes of Ramage will ever have but he has burnt his bridges here. Gemmill is right though and I have mentioned several times that most of his cock ups tend to come later in the game when he is getting mentally fatigued.

Taylor needs to be careful with believing his own hype. He has dropped a fair few clangers and the Geordie boy superman shite is still strong enough with some to sway their judgement. He will be fine if he gets his ego sorted.

[ChezGiven 0]

Ramage has visibly lost confidence in the last few weeks and getting on his back isnt going to help that. He knows he is under pressure. He has put in some decent games this season but he has just had 2 absolute shockers.

 

The crowd is ready to get on any players back as soon as they have made one mistake tbh. I personally detest people who boo or get on the back of any of our players. What makes it worse for me is if the people who get on players backs say fuck all else all game. There are a few too many of these characters in the ground.

 

Also to clear an issue up, us, the paying fans DO NOT pay the players wages. You pay to watch the spectacle as a form of entertainment (sic). The exchange of cash for ticket entitles you to enter the ground and view the game. Nowt else. Wages are a contract between employer and employee and does not involve 'customers' tbqfh.

[gram 0]

Ramage has visibly lost confidence in the last few weeks and getting on his back isnt going to help that. He knows he is under pressure. He has put in some decent games this season but he has just had 2 absolute shockers.

 

The crowd is ready to get on any players back as soon as they have made one mistake tbh. I personally detest people who boo or get on the back of any of our players. What makes it worse for me is if the people who get on players backs say fuck all else all game. There are a few too many of these characters in the ground.

 

Also to clear an issue up, us, the paying fans DO NOT pay the players wages. You pay to watch the spectacle as a form of entertainment (sic). The exchange of cash for ticket entitles you to enter the ground and view the game. Nowt else. Wages are a contract between employer and employee and does not involve 'customers' tbqfh.

Legally correct, however, economically you are so wrong it is untrue!

A football club without fans has very little income whether that be direct or indirect income. The fans are the ones who pay for merchandise, tickets, food and that is so significant that if it was lost to the club then it wouldnt have a bloody ground (note that the loan for the expansion was based on future season ticket sales amongst other things). Without a ground I suspect we would struggle to get SKY along and any monies there would be lost.

Basically the club cant operate without its core customers. To say that fans expenditure doesnt pay for the players wages isnt economically correct. It does.

[ChezGiven 0]

Ramage has visibly lost confidence in the last few weeks and getting on his back isnt going to help that. He knows he is under pressure. He has put in some decent games this season but he has just had 2 absolute shockers.

 

The crowd is ready to get on any players back as soon as they have made one mistake tbh. I personally detest people who boo or get on the back of any of our players. What makes it worse for me is if the people who get on players backs say fuck all else all game. There are a few too many of these characters in the ground.

 

Also to clear an issue up, us, the paying fans DO NOT pay the players wages. You pay to watch the spectacle as a form of entertainment (sic). The exchange of cash for ticket entitles you to enter the ground and view the game. Nowt else. Wages are a contract between employer and employee and does not involve 'customers' tbqfh.

Legally correct, however, economically you are so wrong it is untrue!

A football club without fans has very little income whether that be direct or indirect income. The fans are the ones who pay for merchandise, tickets, food and that is so significant that if it was lost to the club then it wouldnt have a bloody ground (note that the loan for the expansion was based on future season ticket sales amongst other things). Without a ground I suspect we would struggle to get SKY along and any monies there would be lost.

Basically the club cant operate without its core customers. To say that fans expenditure doesnt pay for the players wages isnt economically correct. It does.

I have 2 economics degrees and am an professional economist so consider myself an expert in this field tbh.

 

You pay to watch the match. Once you have seen it, then you have received the service you paid for. Of course revenue contributes to the cost base and therefore all sources of revenue are relevant to how a company remunerates its employees. However, from a purely economical point of view, the fan pays to see the game. Once the club has allowed you entrance onto its property, you have exchanged a service for your cash. The value of that service (seeing the game) is implicit in the price of the ticket. Its called 'making a market'.

 

If you dont understand the nature of exchange in a market then there are a number of GCSE textboooks i could look up for you.

 

Paying for a ticket does not entitle you to owt else apart from a seat at the match. If you pay to go and see a Scorsese film, do you think that entitles you to a say in how he makes his next film? No, it entitles you to a seat in the cinema and that is it.

 

Same principle applies here.

[Matt 0]

Oddly, the example you make about cinema is an interesting choice given that Snakes On A Plane was a huge success after moviegoers suggested how it should be made!

[ChezGiven 0]

Oddly, the example you make about cinema is an interesting choice given that Snakes On A Plane was a huge success after moviegoers suggested how it should be made!

 

Exception that proves the rule shirley

[gram 0]

Ramage has visibly lost confidence in the last few weeks and getting on his back isnt going to help that. He knows he is under pressure. He has put in some decent games this season but he has just had 2 absolute shockers.

 

The crowd is ready to get on any players back as soon as they have made one mistake tbh. I personally detest people who boo or get on the back of any of our players. What makes it worse for me is if the people who get on players backs say fuck all else all game. There are a few too many of these characters in the ground.

 

Also to clear an issue up, us, the paying fans DO NOT pay the players wages. You pay to watch the spectacle as a form of entertainment (sic). The exchange of cash for ticket entitles you to enter the ground and view the game. Nowt else. Wages are a contract between employer and employee and does not involve 'customers' tbqfh.

Legally correct, however, economically you are so wrong it is untrue!

A football club without fans has very little income whether that be direct or indirect income. The fans are the ones who pay for merchandise, tickets, food and that is so significant that if it was lost to the club then it wouldnt have a bloody ground (note that the loan for the expansion was based on future season ticket sales amongst other things). Without a ground I suspect we would struggle to get SKY along and any monies there would be lost.

Basically the club cant operate without its core customers. To say that fans expenditure doesnt pay for the players wages isnt economically correct. It does.

I have 2 economics degrees and am an professional economist so consider myself an expert in this field tbh.

 

You pay to watch the match. Once you have seen it, then you have received the service you paid for. Of course revenue contributes to the cost base and therefore all sources of revenue are relevant to how a company remunerates its employees. However, from a purely economical point of view, the fan pays to see the game. Once the club has allowed you entrance onto its property, you have exchanged a service for your cash. The value of that service (seeing the game) is implicit in the price of the ticket. Its called 'making a market'.

 

If you dont understand the nature of exchange in a market then there are a number of GCSE textboooks i could look up for you.

 

Paying for a ticket does not entitle you to owt else apart from a seat at the match. If you pay to go and see a Scorsese film, do you think that entitles you to a say in how he makes his next film? No, it entitles you to a seat in the cinema and that is it.

 

Same principle applies here.

Where did you get those degrees from? WH Smiths? I am an economist too funnily enough and have taught economics for years. Your point was that the fan doesnt pay for the wage. I agre that directly he/she doesnt. However, without the fan there is little point in a ticket being printed. Simple as that.

The fan base (or customer) will always indirectly pay the wages of the player. It really is that simple. We could wrap it up in all kinds of nonsense but the simple fact is that revenue generated from fans is the base of that market. Without that there is no player.

Nb: Please don't use degrees like they are Top Trumps. Its hardly a recommendation these days.