Why is it 80 years since Newcastle last won the title?

[Bombadil 0]

Geordies bemoan proud history lost in mists of Tyne

 

Michael Walker

Monday January 1, 2007

The Guardian

 

The current title favourites visit St James' Park today, 80 years after Newcastle's last league championship. Nelson Cairns can remember it, but he will be 94 soon. Tellingly, on Tyneside that is the sort of age you have to be. Much has been made of Sir Alex Ferguson reaching 65 at the weekend, but when Ferguson arrives at St James' Park today he will be struck by an anniversary of altogether greater magnitude: New Year's Day 2007 means that it is now 80 years since Newcastle United were champions of England.

 

"I have a very clear memory of the first game of the 1926-27 season," Cairns said. "At that time I was 12 years old and was visiting my aunt Hetty in Heaton. She had a family friend called Jack Riley and Jack asked me if I would like to go to the match with him. Newcastle beat Aston Villa 4-0 and Hughie Gallacher scored all four goals. I do not remember any particular celebrations - Newcastle had been quite successful in the previous 20 years - it just seemed a normal thing to happen. Actually, when I think about it now, it was the end of an era."

 

Those, indeed, were the days. When Newcastle beat Sheffield Wednesday on April 30, 1927 they clinched their fourth title in 19 seasons. Newcastle won two FA Cups in that spell, too, and lost four finals. In 1905 they were one lost final away from the first league and cup Double of the century. In terms of offside and the passing game, Newcastle were innovators.

 

"Intelligent, progressive, you could say they were the Ajax of their day," Roger Hutchinson said. "Where did that intelligence go?" Hutchinson is author of The Toon, a history of the club. He is also a believer, though inevitably one with a fair amount of doubt.

 

Eight decades of mediocrity, sometimes better, often worse, does that to supporters and yet when Manchester United reach St James' this afternoon there will be 52,000 waiting for them. It is an attendance figure that is now familiar but it should not be under-appreciated.

 

Old Trafford has endured its own title drought - from 1911 to '52 - but since then there have been 13, plus just a few cups. Everton, who beat Newcastle 3-0 on Saturday, have won seven titles since 1927. Those are solid, silver reasons why these clubs are well supported.

 

Usually Celtic and Rangers are the clubs compared to Newcastle for passionate fans, but Celtic's have been sustained by 23 Scottish titles since 1927. Rangers have won 88 trophies since 1927. That's a lot of good nights in Glasgow come May. Newcastle won three FA Cups in the 1950s and the Fairs Cup in 1969. That's four nights.

 

But still they come. "Ever since the 1890s when they took off," Hutchinson said, "Newcastle United have come to be a symbol of the region, a region that was cut off, and felt cut off, from the rest of Britain. It feels like pre-history but it's important because these are the foundations of the club.

 

"There is no alternative to Newcastle - from the Tyne Valley, north into Northumberland, east to Tynemouth and then down into Durham, plus the urban conurbation of Newcastle itself, this is an immense catchment area, unique in England I think. And the supporters are so loyal, even the slightest hint of success and they're there in tens of thousands. Everyone knows they will always turn up. You can't help but think that breeds complacency at boardroom level."

 

Cairns agreed: "The directors, managers and players all must take some responsibility. Probably the directors must take the lion's share of the blame. Certainly in the 1950s and 60s the directors did not seem to be in touch with the supporters."

 

In what seems an eerie example, on the way to winning the FA Cup in 1955 Newcastle City Hall staged a public meeting at which 2,000 members of the Shareholders' Association produced a vote of no confidence in the board. But still they came. The club had been part of Geordie identity for more than 50 years by then. The geography of apartness can seem exaggerated today but in 1927 and before it had literal meaning. The Tyne bridge had not been completed in 1927 and Geordies looked north as often as south.

 

That was how they got Gallacher, all 5ft 5in of him, from Airdrieonians. Made captain and No9, Gallacher scored 36 times in that championship-winning season and the Newcastle Daily Journal wondered if he did not possess "more than the usual complement of feet".

 

But Hutchinson asked another question: between Gallacher and the 1996 signing of Alan Shearer, name another world-class player bought by Newcastle? "Kevin Keegan was a big signing but he was past his prime, and Newcastle were in the Second Division. In the 1950s they had Jackie Milburn but he was local, not bought."

 

Hutchinson added: "And where is Newcastle's great manager, their Bill Shankly, Herbert Chapman, Bill Nicholson, Matt Busby? Keegan came close but he was never going to be Shankly. Bobby Robson was a major manager but he was not in his prime at Newcastle."

 

Historically, another reason for title failure cited by Milburn was the obsession with the FA Cup. In 1951, having beaten Wolves in the semi-final, Newcastle were fifth in the league, six points behind Tottenham with three games in hand. There were 13 games left and again it was all about Newcastle doing the Double. Newcastle won just three more times. In 1952 it was the same. But the Cup was won twice and Milburn admitted: "We stopped playing in league games after the semis."

 

The FA Cup had prestige then that it lacks now. Europe and the title have superseded it and but for Manchester United and Ferguson in 1996 Keegan would have ended the wait.

 

But that was last year's anniversary. This year's should be as painful as any. Newcastle are already 28 points behind their visitors today with their manager, Glenn Roeder, dealing with a sweeping injury crisis. Roeder is a rational man, someone who refuses to believe the club is cursed - "Bollocks" is his view of that - and someone who talks about infrastructure and long-term plans. It may yet work.

 

Whether Nelson Cairns sees it is another matter. "It never really occurred to me that I might not see Newcastle win another championship in my lifetime," he said. "But I'm not surprised that 50,000 fans turn up every week. I would be surprised, and disappointed, if they didn't. I do think Newcastle will win the Premiership some day but I do not want to predict when. It might bring bad luck."

[LeazesMag 0]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

[peasepud 59]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

 

without wanting to drop into the usual "old board/ new board debate" whats the reason why we havent won it under the current one then? After all the "new" board have presided over nearly 20% of those lean years.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

 

gordon bennet.

[FCUM 1]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

 

I don't think anybody can argue with that tbh. I suspect many on here are too young to remember the desolation of the Westwood & McKeag years. Without wishing to get drawn into the current board debate, I don't think you can argue with the fact that these people ran the club with a complete lack of ambition.

[FCUM 1]

I would like to make one other comment on a similar theme.

 

I had a 'discussion' with a mag some time ago over on the mackems forum. This guy was basically cursing the entire Hall family. Yes, Dougie might be a cock but it shouldn't cloud just what Sir John Hall achieved in dragging Newcastle United up by the scruff of it's neck.

 

I was a personal friend of one of the original Magpie Group members and was privy to a lot of what went on in this era. The drive and determination of Sir John Hall should never be under estimated in the history of your club and I thought it sickening to see him referred to as a c*nt who milked the club dry. Yes, he ended up with a good return on his investment and IMO he bloody well deserved it.

 

Unfortunately, history constantly shows that men who helped forge great dynasties are frequently let down by their sons. We had a similar situation at my club when Louis Edwards (gristle butcher extraodinaire) handed over to his son Martin Edwards (toilet sniffer extraodinaire) who pimped the club around to the extent that we had to witness the sickening sight of Michael f*ckin Knighton juggling balls in the centre circle before one home game as our supposed new owner when in fact he didn't have a pot to piss in

 

Don't let the actions of the son cloud just what the father achieved.

[JawD 99]

I dont think anyone cany deny that it was Hall who propelled the club from potential obscurity into a top premiership club for near a decade. That he got his money back and some is irrelevant. That the family may now be seen to leech from the club is a different issue.

Edited January 2, 2007 by JawD

[LeazesMag 0]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

 

gordon bennet.

 

it would appear that the resident manu fan appears to know more about Newcastle United than you.

 

I'm not surprised.

[LeazesMag 0]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

 

I don't think anybody can argue with that tbh. I suspect many on here are too young to remember the desolation of the Westwood & McKeag years. Without wishing to get drawn into the current board debate, I don't think you can argue with the fact that these people ran the club with a complete lack of ambition.

 

Well after yesterday I hope we can beat Chelsea at home for you. And for ourselves obviously.

 

If anyone is cursed it is people my age who suffered the worst 30+ years in the whole history of newcastle United and it isn't something I would like to see repeated, or with similar people running the club.

[LeazesMag 0]

load of waffle telling us nowt new. Well, some of us won't know the answer anyway.

 

Basically the answer is because we had a shite board of small people with no imagination, zero ambition, and didn't really care about the club enough to want to be successful. Lets hope when the current board are replaced, we don't end up with the same type again.

 

without wanting to drop into the usual "old board/ new board debate" whats the reason why we havent won it under the current one then? After all the "new" board have presided over nearly 20% of those lean years.

 

See the following links mate for the reasons, I would say.

 

http://z3.invisionfree.com/NUFCforum/index...?showtopic=2320

 

and this :

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/....html#msg671848

 

We haven't won the league because we had a shit board who had no ambition, no imagination and lived in the past up until 1992.

Since then we have gave it a fair crack, but I think the club suffers now from a pressure situation, whereby the very fact we have not won something for so long is counter productive and inhibits everyone at the club. As Grass says, we have bottled too many situations in good positions. There is a reason for this, its a winning mentality and the confidence which comes from actually believing that you can win when you are in these positions. Winning even the League Cup would be a massive breakthough psycologically for the club and the players. I saw the difference in the players after we won the Fairs Cup, it was amazing, they had a spring in their play and a belief that had not been there before, but at the time, the shit board didn't have the guts nor the ambition to build on it and it didn't last.

 

If Keegan hadn't bought Arsprilla and had kept Venison I think we would have won the title in 1996, in the end maybe it also came down to bottle - and experience of the situation - but other clubs have thrown the title away - if he had stayed he had the determination to overcome it and go better.

[FCUM 1]

If anyone is cursed it is people my age who suffered the worst 30+ years in the whole history of newcastle United and it isn't something I would like to see repeated, or with similar people running the club.

 

In fairness though Leazes, I think it's difficult for a lot of the younger generation to get a sense of the despair that most Newcastle supporters felt at that time. It's not their fault, they were'nt around at the time and naturally see things with a different perspective to those who were.

 

It's the same when people refer to others as 'post sky football fans' as some kind of insult. It's easy to forget that if you're under 30 you've never known anything different and had no choice in the matter.

 

It was a completely different era, since clubs have floated on the stock exchange etc it's all about attracting new investment. Back in those days it was pot luck if your club had a Westwood / McKeag or a Jack Walker.

[LeazesMag 0]

If anyone is cursed it is people my age who suffered the worst 30+ years in the whole history of newcastle United and it isn't something I would like to see repeated, or with similar people running the club.

 

In fairness though Leazes, I think it's difficult for a lot of the younger generation to get a sense of the despair that most Newcastle supporters felt at that time. It's not their fault, they were'nt around at the time and naturally see things with a different perspective to those who were.

 

It's the same when people refer to others as 'post sky football fans' as some kind of insult. It's easy to forget that if you're under 30 you've never known anything different and had no choice in the matter.

 

It was a completely different era, since clubs have floated on the stock exchange etc it's all about attracting new investment. Back in those days it was pot luck if your club had a Westwood / McKeag or a Jack Walker.

 

I understand this. All you can do is tell them and explain. Other clubs are taken over by people and they aren't always better either, it happens and all you can do is point this out too.

 

Did you go to the game yesterday

[FCUM 1]

Did you go to the game yesterday

 

No, met a few old mates in town for a few beers and then I watched it in the labour club.

[LeazesMag 0]

Did you go to the game yesterday

 

No, met a few old mates in town for a few beers and then I watched it in the labour club.

 

so who got kicked out for hassling you

[The Fish 10430]

perhaps, Leazes, if you altered the way you put your view across it wouldn't be dismissed as the ramblings of senility.

 

every post in an argument seems to devolve into petulant name calling and snide condescension.

 

I am utterly convinced that Freddy Shepherd is one of the major factors in this club stagnating over the last ten years. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise, and the way that you have replied has lead me to believe that you care less about making a point and more about making a scene.

 

you love to remind people that you're older than they are and have watched more games. Yet even with this undisputed experience you're so quick to damn other peoples views. Surely experience should have taught you that other peoples informed opinions are worth no more or less than your own?

 

And on this board in particular I doubt you'll find people making grand statements without at least some modicum of sense to back them up with.

 

/rant

[Gemmill 42648]

LM's experiences over the last 30 years don't account for the fact that he makes tons of excuses for the current board on the basis that "it's not as bad as it used to be". He needs to realise that, as bad as things were, and as far as we've come from those days, we could be a lot further on if things were managed better by the current board. Instead he prefers to excuse their mistakes for some reason.

[Guest alex]

As an aside, after the arrogant wankers yesterday (supporters that is, Man Utd's players being that is a given) I hope Chelsea win the league. Hobson's choice like.

[FCUM 1]

so who got kicked out for hassling you

 

Bloody 'ell that wasn't you was it

 

 

 

 

 

Nah, never have a problem when I'm in there, I know when to keep my mouth shut

Apart from that, as my Manc mates never tire of telling me, after living up here since the 70s I've picked up a bit of the accent

[LeazesMag 0]

perhaps, Leazes, if you altered the way you put your view across it wouldn't be dismissed as the ramblings of senility.

 

every post in an argument seems to devolve into petulant name calling and snide condescension.

 

I am utterly convinced that Freddy Shepherd is one of the major factors in this club stagnating over the last ten years. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise, and the way that you have replied has lead me to believe that you care less about making a point and more about making a scene.

 

you love to remind people that you're older than they are and have watched more games. Yet even with this undisputed experience you're so quick to damn other peoples views. Surely experience should have taught you that other peoples informed opinions are worth no more or less than your own?

 

And on this board in particular I doubt you'll find people making grand statements without at least some modicum of sense to back them up with.

 

/rant

 

I'm simply pointing out that "anyone but Fred" is a naive stance. If you don't accept this there is nothing else I can say, because it is. It is also common sense to look at the few teams that have done better than us against the vastly more teams that have been below us to add up the odds on which direction a change is more likely to go, particularly if a new board runs a tight financial ship and won't back the manager and show the ambition to bring in top footballers like the current board have allowed their managers to do.

 

This is not automatic, its a choice they make.

[LeazesMag 0]

so who got kicked out for hassling you

 

Bloody 'ell that wasn't you was it

 

Nah, never have a problem when I'm in there, I know when to keep my mouth shut

Apart from that, as my Manc mates never tire of telling me, after living up here since the 70s I've picked up a bit of the accent

 

I've never been in that club tbh.

[The Fish 10430]

I'm simply pointing out that "anyone but Fred" is a naive stance. If you don't accept this there is nothing else I can say, because it is. It is also common sense to look at the few teams that have done better than us against the vastly more teams that have been below us to add up the odds on which direction a change is more likely to go, particularly if a new board runs a tight financial ship and won't back the manager and show the ambition to bring in top footballers like the current board have allowed their managers to do.

 

This is not automatic, its a choice they make.

 

show me where I've seriously said "Anyone but Freddy"

 

I'm all for change and to be honest I think it's going to come about 4 years too late, but to say "Anyone but Fred" is naive and that's why I'm sure you'll find I haven't said it... neither have most of the contributors to the perpetual argument you provoke.

 

if you look at the teams that have done better than us, they've all one thing in common. The manager, chairman and team have moved with the times, they've progressed and have not simply maintained an approach to the game that was successful ten years ago.

 

We haven't.

[Dr Gloom 21302]

i don't think many people have said "anyone but fred", but a good majority want him out and with good reason. the failings of other chairmen doesn't make fred any less of a baffoon.

[LeazesMag 0]

I'm simply pointing out that "anyone but Fred" is a naive stance. If you don't accept this there is nothing else I can say, because it is. It is also common sense to look at the few teams that have done better than us against the vastly more teams that have been below us to add up the odds on which direction a change is more likely to go, particularly if a new board runs a tight financial ship and won't back the manager and show the ambition to bring in top footballers like the current board have allowed their managers to do.

 

This is not automatic, its a choice they make.

 

show me where I've seriously said "Anyone but Freddy"

 

I'm all for change and to be honest I think it's going to come about 4 years too late, but to say "Anyone but Fred" is naive and that's why I'm sure you'll find I haven't said it... neither have most of the contributors to the perpetual argument you provoke.

 

if you look at the teams that have done better than us, they've all one thing in common. The manager, chairman and team have moved with the times, they've progressed and have not simply maintained an approach to the game that was successful ten years ago.

 

We haven't.

 

 

OK then, why don't you tell us who exactly is lurking in the backround waiting to guarantee they will do better, and why you think they will ? There is no point in making or wishing for any change unless they are going to be better.

 

We have actually made significant progress in expanding the stadium and building a new training complex, all necessary to attempt for real success in the future, while maintaining regular european football, but I don't suppose you even thought of that or considered it relevant. The only thing wrong with Newcastle was appointing the scottish fuckpig and recovering from that will take time. As you - maybe you maybe not you, I don't know - harp on about the club building solid foundations to make proper progress etc etc why not see that these things are what they are currently doing or attempting to do instead of contradicting yourself and demanding it now ? If anyone on here should be impatient it is me !!!!!!!!!

 

You should read the comments and list of bottled games, because they are all factual, these are the fault of the players and maybe the manager, the board have gave us the quality players to do the trick, and if only one of these had led to a trophy you would not be spouting what you are with a trophy to show for all the effort that has been put in.

[LeazesMag 0]

i don't think many people have said "anyone but fred", but a good majority want him out and with good reason. the failings of other chairmen doesn't make fred any less of a baffoon.

 

[Dr Gloom 21302]

i don't think many people have said "anyone but fred", but a good majority want him out and with good reason. the failings of other chairmen doesn't make fred any less of a baffoon.