Charlton

[The Fish 11112]

Frank Quedrue can fuck off.

 

Cunt.

Sage..... relevant... gentile...

 

I like it

 

 

 

[LeazesMag 0]

As i said mate, its the manager that counts. Not a team or secretaries, media men, accountants etc etc drawing up "business plans" ....

 

You seem to be advocating the idea that a club should appoint a manager, give him whatever money is in the biscuit tin and not make any attempt to understand what is actually going on with the football side? Does that not reduce a board's duties to hiring and firing the odd manager and holding an AGM?

 

I'm not sure what secretaries have to do with it. It seems you are just trying to cheapen the idea that a football business is more than a squad and a manager. Or maybe you feel that is all that actually matters?

 

you either believe the board should interfere with the way the manager runs his team and picks his players or you don't. There are no half measures in this. If a manager wants a player and the club can afford it, then they should back him and support him - there may sometimes be discussions about players with regard to their injury record for instance, age or whatever but at the end of the day the manager should have the final decision. If anything I believe any sort of financial responsibility should rest with the manager, he should be informed of the clubs financial situation and believe the players he buys will give good service for the price the club pays.

 

I don't believe there is any plan involved in this, its simply allowing the manager you appointed to do his job and employ his own strategy and ideas. When the time comes you feel that he is failing to get the results or make the progress you want, then you stop backing him and you sack him. This situation also occurs when you stop trusting him spending the clubs money.

Edited December 28, 2006 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

The second option would be to get a decent managerial set up installed similar to what Bolton have got and move the club forward from there.

 

 

 

as i said, its all about appointing a good manager, that is all there is to it and its got nowt to do with any "plan". Like we did too ref Bobby Robson.

 

The failure to "plan" or have any "foresight" (or even just learn from the lessons of the past tbh) was in Robson's sacking. In the timing, in overriding spending on transfers to maintain Champions League standing and in not looking for other managerial options long before they did (kinda later mirriored by the Shearer issue).

 

Anyway I doubt Allardyce would even come to NUFC, he's realise FFS and Cluless Hall would likely want in on his transfer dealing bungs.

 

Do you also think sacking Gullit was bad timing ?

[The Fish 11112]

 

 

The second option would be to get a decent managerial set up installed similar to what Bolton have got and move the club forward from there.

 

 

 

as i said, its all about appointing a good manager, that is all there is to it and its got nowt to do with any "plan". Like we did too ref Bobby Robson.

 

The failure to "plan" or have any "foresight" (or even just learn from the lessons of the past tbh) was in Robson's sacking. In the timing, in overriding spending on transfers to maintain Champions League standing and in not looking for other managerial options long before they did (kinda later mirriored by the Shearer issue).

 

Anyway I doubt Allardyce would even come to NUFC, he's realise FFS and Cluless Hall would likely want in on his transfer dealing bungs.

 

Do you also think sacking Gullit was bad timing ?

 

 

yup. shoulda gone before he signed a contract tbh

[Matt 0]

I don't believe there is any plan involved in this, its simply allowing the manager you appointed to do his job and employ his own strategy and ideas. When the time comes you feel that he is failing to get the results or make the progress you want, then you stop backing him and you sack him. This situation also occurs when you stop trusting him spending the clubs money.

 

This is where we have fallen down.

 

Take Roeder, for instance. He seems a nice enough guy but I don't think he's going to deliver great success here. Now saying I was chairman and going by the 'back or sack' policy then I'd have to get shot of him because I wouldn't have the confidence in his ability to give him the full amount of money available as long term I'd sooner see another manager spend it. The problem being that the 'other manager' is halfway through a season and a lot harder to prise away than in May.

 

There IS a middleground and while it can lead to short-term aggrovation, it's far better than handing £15m pounds to a manager who more likely than not will have left the club come next season. With more sensible PR (hey who needs media men) then we could have got by under Robson for much longer than we did- and wouldn't have been forced into appointing such a dismal replacement.

 

It's the 'all or nothing' approach which has resulted in such waste in the transfer market.

[Fop 1]

 

 

The second option would be to get a decent managerial set up installed similar to what Bolton have got and move the club forward from there.

 

 

 

as i said, its all about appointing a good manager, that is all there is to it and its got nowt to do with any "plan". Like we did too ref Bobby Robson.

 

The failure to "plan" or have any "foresight" (or even just learn from the lessons of the past tbh) was in Robson's sacking. In the timing, in overriding spending on transfers to maintain Champions League standing and in not looking for other managerial options long before they did (kinda later mirriored by the Shearer issue).

 

Anyway I doubt Allardyce would even come to NUFC, he's realise FFS and Cluless Hall would likely want in on his transfer dealing bungs.

 

Do you also think sacking Gullit was bad timing ?

 

 

Gullit was about 3 games away from going on a shotgun rampage tbh (and didn't he resign anyway? kinda hard to plan for that), the man was going insane with the pressure.

 

The difference with Robson was they thought about getting rid then didn't then inexplicably did at an amazingly stupid time.

 

 

If they'd done it initially it might have been better (and would have had time to look for a replacement), but when they did it was about the worst time possible (Clueless Hall's comments about NUFC being relegated under Robson being utterly laughable - it was a bad start that is all, and still better than recent seasons starts).

 

With Robson they had an oppertunity to keep him until they found a WORTHY replacement and if handled correctly might even have kept him on as a Director of Football thereby keeping his experience and contacts for the club.

 

 

 

 

 

But again you know all that you just don't like to admit it so you try to deflect from your "planning is for idiots" rubbish, whilst you go about your usual Trolling.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

The second option would be to get a decent managerial set up installed similar to what Bolton have got and move the club forward from there.

 

 

 

as i said, its all about appointing a good manager, that is all there is to it and its got nowt to do with any "plan". Like we did too ref Bobby Robson.

 

The failure to "plan" or have any "foresight" (or even just learn from the lessons of the past tbh) was in Robson's sacking. In the timing, in overriding spending on transfers to maintain Champions League standing and in not looking for other managerial options long before they did (kinda later mirriored by the Shearer issue).

 

Anyway I doubt Allardyce would even come to NUFC, he's realise FFS and Cluless Hall would likely want in on his transfer dealing bungs.

 

Do you also think sacking Gullit was bad timing ?

 

 

Gullit was about 3 games away from going on a shotgun rampage tbh (and didn't he resign anyway? kinda hard to plan for that), the man was going insane with the pressure.

 

The difference with Robson was they thought about getting rid then didn't then inexplicably did at an amazingly stupid time.

 

 

If they'd done it initially it might have been better (and would have had time to look for a replacement), but when they did it was about the worst time possible (Clueless Hall's comments about NUFC being relegated under Robson being utterly laughable - it was a bad start that is all, and still better than recent seasons starts).

 

With Robson they had an oppertunity to keep him until they found a WORTHY replacement and if handled correctly might even have kept him on as a Director of Football thereby keeping his experience and contacts for the club.

 

But again you know all that you just don't like to admit it so you try to deflect from your "planning is for idiots" rubbish, whilst you go about your usual Trolling.

 

Isn't hindsight wonderful Not many people thought we should get rid of Robson earlier than we did, in fact during that summer most fans were happy with his summer signings ie Kluivert, Butt, Milner and Carr, and confident we could get back into the Champions League placings.

 

I will not deny that sacking Robson - or appointing Souness - was a huge mistake - I have ALWAYS said this - but if the club had appointed a good manager then you quite simply would not be harping on about "timing". As nobody does when Gullit was replaced by Robson, which was exactly the same timing ie a few games into the season. Gullit resigned before he was sacked BTW. Respect is due to him for that as is him tearing up his contract - shame Souness didn't have the balls to do that, and Bobby Robson as well for that matter. Your comment about keeping Robson on is correct I would have agreed with that, until a replacement was found, but this is nothing more than hindsight. Everyone is correct and wise after the event.

 

As for Trolling.....you think because someone disagrees with you it is Trolling ????? I assure you I believe what I say to be correct. The fact that the club thinks different to you or a manager buys different players to what you would doesn't mean they have no "plan", they are in fact working their own strategy. I believe the club brought in players for fees for the correct areas in the summer, this is reinforced by the fact that is as plain as daylight that having bought forward players, we STILL need at least one more out and out forward. The facts that I post concerning the clubs last decade are also in fact correct, a replacment for the current board could easily be worse and do worse for the club and I obviously hope that THIS scenario doesn't happen.

 

If you believe this to be impossible then you seriously need to take a reality check.

[Fop 1]

Isn't hindsight wonderful

 

Foresight is even better, not so easy though.

 

Not many people thought we should get rid of Robson earlier than we did, in fact during that summer most fans were happy with his summer signings ie Kluivert, Butt, Milner and Carr, and confident we could get back into the Champions League placings.

 

Not so many fans, but it still didn't stop the boardroom and FFS and Clueless Hall in particular from undermining Robson both publicly and privately…. and then sacking him 3 weeks and 4 games into the new season.

 

 

I will not deny that sacking Robson - or appointing Souness - was a huge mistake - I have ALWAYS said this - but if the club had appointed a good manager then you quite simply would not be harping on about "timing".

 

Part of the reason they couldn't GET a good manager was the stupid timing of his sacking, again it should have been before or later there was NO reason to sack him then in a mindless panic just due to a poor start.

 

As nobody does when Gullit was replaced by Robson, which was exactly the same timing ie a few games into the season. Gullit resigned before he was sacked BTW.

 

Yes I said that he resigned, you said the board sacked him…. whether they would have sacked him is debateable due to the payment issue. Although the way he was going he would have forced their hand or as I said there’d have been a shotgun rampage at St James in another few games as the man was clearly cracking up.

 

And appointing Robson at that time was a complete no brainer.

 

He loved the club.

He was a free agent.

He's said he was interested before and only didn't come due to honouring his contract.

He was one of the top managers in the world and arguably THE top manager in overall experience.

 

Respect is due to him for that as is him tearing up his contract - shame Souness didn't have the balls to do that, and Bobby Robson as well for that matter. Your comment about keeping Robson on is correct I would have agreed with that, until a replacement was found, but this is nothing more than hindsight. Everyone is correct and wise after the event.

 

Robson was having a bad patch after being repeatedly PUBLICLY UNDERMINED BY THE BOARD in the previous months, as well as privately undermined as well, which was a somewhat suicidal thing to do.

It doesn't take hindsight to understand that publicly undermining your sitting manager is a MORONIC thing to do (then again slagging off your fans, home town and star player isn't exactly bright but is par for the course for the NUFC boardroom).

 

It possibly was time for him to go but either at the end of the prior season or stick with him (ignoring Clueless Hall's pronouncements), or even bringing someone in along side him.

 

 

As for Trolling.....you think because someone disagrees with you it is Trolling ?????

 

No I KNOW that ignoring every valid point and instead asking an oblique question IS trolling.

You're a Troll, that's why you do what you do and enjoy it. If you're honest with yourself you know it too.

 

 

The fact that the club thinks different to you or a manager buys different players to what you would doesn't mean they have no "plan", they are in fact working their own strategy.

 

Again there was no plan or strategy, they just went for what was about and ended up with Souness, and after him largely couldn't attract anyone.

 

I believe the club brought in players for fees for the correct areas in the summer, this is reinforced by the fact that is as plain as daylight that having bought forward players, we STILL need at least one more out and out forward.

 

Again though this shows a lack of planning with regard to the Shearer situation (which was hardly lack of notice they had a year more than they thought they had), yes Owen's injury was an issue, but it wasn't really well delt with..... look at Man U and how they have dealt with their striker issues.

 

The facts that I post concerning the clubs last decade are also in fact correct, a replacment for the current board could easily be worse and do worse for the club and I obviously hope that THIS scenario doesn't happen.

 

Yes and they easily could do BETTER as well.

 

But what NUFC needs is stability and better plan for getting into the Champions League than sack the manager and try a new one every 1.5 seasons if they don’t.

[LeazesMag 0]

Isn't hindsight wonderful

 

Foresight is even better, not so easy though.

 

Not many people thought we should get rid of Robson earlier than we did, in fact during that summer most fans were happy with his summer signings ie Kluivert, Butt, Milner and Carr, and confident we could get back into the Champions League placings.

 

Not so many fans, but it still didn't stop the boardroom and FFS and Clueless Hall in particular from undermining Robson both publicly and privately…. and then sacking him 3 weeks and 4 games into the new season.

 

 

I will not deny that sacking Robson - or appointing Souness - was a huge mistake - I have ALWAYS said this - but if the club had appointed a good manager then you quite simply would not be harping on about "timing".

 

Part of the reason they couldn't GET a good manager was the stupid timing of his sacking, again it should have been before or later there was NO reason to sack him then in a mindless panic just due to a poor start.

 

As nobody does when Gullit was replaced by Robson, which was exactly the same timing ie a few games into the season. Gullit resigned before he was sacked BTW.

 

Yes I said that he resigned, you said the board sacked him…. whether they would have sacked him is debateable due to the payment issue. Although the way he was going he would have forced their hand or as I said there’d have been a shotgun rampage at St James in another few games as the man was clearly cracking up.

 

And appointing Robson at that time was a complete no brainer.

 

He loved the club.

He was a free agent.

He's said he was interested before and only didn't come due to honouring his contract.

He was one of the top managers in the world and arguably THE top manager in overall experience.

 

Respect is due to him for that as is him tearing up his contract - shame Souness didn't have the balls to do that, and Bobby Robson as well for that matter. Your comment about keeping Robson on is correct I would have agreed with that, until a replacement was found, but this is nothing more than hindsight. Everyone is correct and wise after the event.

 

Robson was having a bad patch after being repeatedly PUBLICLY UNDERMINED BY THE BOARD in the previous months, as well as privately undermined as well, which was a somewhat suicidal thing to do.

It doesn't take hindsight to understand that publicly undermining your sitting manager is a MORONIC thing to do (then again slagging off your fans, home town and star player isn't exactly bright but is par for the course for the NUFC boardroom).

 

It possibly was time for him to go but either at the end of the prior season or stick with him (ignoring Clueless Hall's pronouncements), or even bringing someone in along side him.

 

As for Trolling.....you think because someone disagrees with you it is Trolling ?????

 

No I KNOW that ignoring every valid point and instead asking an oblique question IS trolling.

You're a Troll, that's why you do what you do and enjoy it. If you're honest with yourself you know it too.

 

The fact that the club thinks different to you or a manager buys different players to what you would doesn't mean they have no "plan", they are in fact working their own strategy.

 

Again there was no plan or strategy, they just went for what was about and ended up with Souness, and after him largely couldn't attract anyone.

 

I believe the club brought in players for fees for the correct areas in the summer, this is reinforced by the fact that is as plain as daylight that having bought forward players, we STILL need at least one more out and out forward.

 

Again though this shows a lack of planning with regard to the Shearer situation (which was hardly lack of notice they had a year more than they thought they had), yes Owen's injury was an issue, but it wasn't really well delt with..... look at Man U and how they have dealt with their striker issues.

 

The facts that I post concerning the clubs last decade are also in fact correct, a replacment for the current board could easily be worse and do worse for the club and I obviously hope that THIS scenario doesn't happen.

 

Yes and they easily could do BETTER as well.

 

But what NUFC needs is stability and better plan for getting into the Champions League than sack the manager and try a new one every 1.5 seasons if they don’t.

 

some points I agree with but I am going out.

 

Consider the following. The club sacked Bobby Robson, because they had someone lined up. A top manager had agreed to take the job. So they sacked him. Then this manager changed his mind having told his chairman he was leaving, then went and told him he wasn't leaving, after Sir Bob had been given his cards. What would you say if that had happened ?

 

Would it explain the "timing" ???????? And remember, you have to be careful who you approach once the season has started, but very few people said sack Robson in the summer. I ddin't, even though I could tell he wasn;t going to carry on much longer and was losing his grip on the players and his job.

 

BTW - I agree about Hall Jnr, I've been saying for ages that its a board thing and he's the major shareholder and its ridiculous he gets away with the criticism.

 

It is not easy to do better than being 5th best in the country over a decade, and breaking into the top 4. Yes we could do it, but so could other clubs. This is where you are falling down in your comments, nothing is easy, its unbelievably naive to think such a thing is easy. See my comment about a reality check. The 3 years under Bobby Robson when we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th are the first 3 consecutive top 5 finishes by NUFC in over 50 years.....and YOU say it is EASY

 

I do not ignore valid points, I make many valid points. The one above is an example but people simply don't entertain it because they don't want to.

Edited December 29, 2006 by LeazesMag

[Fop 1]

 

 

some points I agree with but I am going out.

 

Consider the following. The club sacked Bobby Robson, because they had someone lined up. A top manager had agreed to take the job. So they sacked him. Then this manager changed his mind having told his chairman he was leaving, then went and told him he wasn't leaving, after Sir Bob had been given his cards. What would you say if that had happened ?

 

Would it explain the "timing" ???????? And remember, you have to be careful who you approach once the season has started, but very few people said sack Robson in the summer. I ddin't, even though I could tell he wasn;t going to carry on much longer and was losing his grip on the players and his job.

 

But that wasn't what happened, they just publically undermined Robson (in a much, much worse way than what happened with Fergerson when he said it was his last season - look at Man U results when he did that), didn't sack him and then sacked him without a replacement lined up a stupidly short time into the new season.

 

Not only was that suicidal from a results point of view, but also from the point of view of trying to retain Robson in an experience, coaching, contacts role which he may have agreed to IF it had been done in the right way.

 

BTW - I agree about Hall Jnr, I've been saying for ages that its a board thing and he's the major shareholder and its ridiculous he gets away with the criticism.

 

He's a parasite, no more, no less. Just there to suck what he can from the club.

 

It is not easy to do better than being 5th best in the country over a decade, and breaking into the top 4. Yes we could do it, but so could other clubs. This is where you are falling down in your comments, nothing is easy, its unbelievably naive to think such a thing is easy. See my comment about a reality check. The 3 years under Bobby Robson when we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th are the first 3 consecutive top 5 finishes by NUFC in over 50 years.....and YOU say it is EASY

 

I've never said it was easy, and it NOT being easy is exactly THE reason to have more of a "plan" than the sack manager see if we get into the champions league if not sack manager and start over one.

 

Although the finishes under Robson just go back to the incredible stupidity of how they whole thing was handled, if Robson had seen out that season the worst NUFC would have been looking at was mid table ad perhaps more damagingly issues with Shearer, but if they'd used that time correctly we should have been in a MUCH better position than now.