LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 you praying for the takeover or Leazes hanging himself? The takeover it would be too much fun leazes baiting when we win the league for him to hang himself. would I now ? I find it extremely puzzling how a long term supporter like you - or so you say - is STILL naive enough to think that any such takeover is going to put us automatically into the top 4 on a permanent basis, as there are only 4 clubs who have finished higher than us in the last decade and qualified more for europe. Because - if they don't, then they have not done so well ? Whatever their "plan". I can understand Dan the brain thinking this though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 you praying for the takeover or Leazes hanging himself? The takeover it would be too much fun leazes baiting when we win the league for him to hang himself. would I now ? I find it extremely puzzling how a long term supporter like you - or so you say - is STILL naive enough to think that any such takeover is going to put us automatically into the top 4 on a permanent basis, as there are only 4 clubs who have finished higher than us in the last decade and qualified more for europe. Because - if they don't, then they have not done so well ? Whatever their "plan". I can understand Dan the brain thinking this though Who has said a takeover will automatically put us into the top 4 on a permanent basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 you praying for the takeover or Leazes hanging himself? The takeover it would be too much fun leazes baiting when we win the league for him to hang himself. would I now ? I find it extremely puzzling how a long term supporter like you - or so you say - is STILL naive enough to think that any such takeover is going to put us automatically into the top 4 on a permanent basis, as there are only 4 clubs who have finished higher than us in the last decade and qualified more for europe. Because - if they don't, then they have not done so well ? Whatever their "plan". I can understand Dan the brain thinking this though Who has said a takeover will automatically put us into the top 4 on a permanent basis? eeeerrrrrrrrr........I presume you hope any new owners are going to do better than the last ones ? Or is that a difficult concept, especially seeing as you think they are shit etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 you praying for the takeover or Leazes hanging himself? The takeover it would be too much fun leazes baiting when we win the league for him to hang himself. would I now ? I find it extremely puzzling how a long term supporter like you - or so you say - is STILL naive enough to think that any such takeover is going to put us automatically into the top 4 on a permanent basis, as there are only 4 clubs who have finished higher than us in the last decade and qualified more for europe. Because - if they don't, then they have not done so well ? Whatever their "plan". I can understand Dan the brain thinking this though Who has said a takeover will automatically put us into the top 4 on a permanent basis? eeeerrrrrrrrr........I presume you hope any new owners are going to do better than the last ones ? Or is that a difficult concept, especially seeing as you think they are shit etc etc So just to clarify, nobody has actually said that then. Can I ask you a question - It's been reported that the club have debts of £87 million, how do you think the current board will be able to pay that off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Also Leazes the past ten years we've finished on average 7th, so we should at least aim to improve on that? whaddya know? I can do wacky-mathematics too. oh, before I forget, will you concede that this club has at best been stagnant for the last ten years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Reading about Leeds and their debts, this part stood out... Although the general public were unaware, the club under the leadership of Peter Ridsdale had taken out loans worth extremely large sums of money against future gates receipts, and along with the team not performing as the loans required, Leeds slipped further and further into debt. Ring any bells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 our loan is against the stadium though, Leeds used there's (iirc) to buy players, which backfired when the players/management didn't produce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 you praying for the takeover or Leazes hanging himself? The takeover it would be too much fun leazes baiting when we win the league for him to hang himself. would I now ? I find it extremely puzzling how a long term supporter like you - or so you say - is STILL naive enough to think that any such takeover is going to put us automatically into the top 4 on a permanent basis, as there are only 4 clubs who have finished higher than us in the last decade and qualified more for europe. Because - if they don't, then they have not done so well ? Whatever their "plan". I can understand Dan the brain thinking this though Who has said a takeover will automatically put us into the top 4 on a permanent basis? eeeerrrrrrrrr........I presume you hope any new owners are going to do better than the last ones ? Or is that a difficult concept, especially seeing as you think they are shit etc etc So just to clarify, nobody has actually said that then. Can I ask you a question - It's been reported that the club have debts of £87 million, how do you think the current board will be able to pay that off? by taking out loans like the Glaziers have done with manure ???????? Who doesn't have "manageable" debt ? How is it made up ? From that point of view I see what you say, but nobody is going to put that sort of money in for nothing. How long will they stay, what will they do if they don't get success and make their money ? What makes you think any new board will do better, appoint better managers [although how they choose them will be interesting]....... the amazing thing is, we all know about this debt yet gormless people still think we can go out and buy half a team in January Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 our loan is against the stadium though, Leeds used there's (iirc) to buy players, which backfired when the players/management didn't produce absolutely, but I thought everybody knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 ahhh so you don't have me ignored... why then won't you answer my questions? I doubt that I've stumped you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 our loan is against the stadium though, Leeds used there's (iirc) to buy players, which backfired when the players/management didn't produce Is it against the stadium? The extension cost £42 million iirc so the other £45 million has come from overspending. Without a takeover we have no way of paying this back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Also Leazes the past ten years we've finished on average 7th, so we should at least aim to improve on that? whaddya know? I can do wacky-mathematics too. oh, before I forget, will you concede that this club has at best been stagnant for the last ten years? nobody has averaged 1st, so who is best ? Fact is, our average is the 5th highest and only 4 clubs have qualified more for europe and finished higher. So unless a new board can improve on that ? But I'm sure just so long as they have a "plan" it will guarantee success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 our loan is against the stadium though, Leeds used there's (iirc) to buy players, which backfired when the players/management didn't produce Is it against the stadium? The extension cost £42 million iirc so the other £45 million has come from overspending. Without a takeover we have no way of paying this back. Revenues are down, spending has increased, the proportion we spend on players wages has increased to 63%, we are losing a million pounds a month, and God knows how much we pay in interest on our 80 million pounds plus debt. But we musn't let minor details like these stop us seeing what a good chairman Shepherd has been and how competent the present Newcastle board are. Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if would-be investors backed out of any deal once they took a good look at the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Fact is, our average is the 5th highest and only 4 clubs have qualified more for europe and finished higher. So unless a new board can improve on that ? But I'm sure just so long as they have a "plan" it will guarantee success OK, this is purely on a business/footall level- No plan will guarantee success, but structure and forethought will increase the probability of it occuring. If a businessman went to a bank looking for a loan and had no plans in place, he'd be in the branch for little over a minute before being ushered out. Why would a bank do that? Simply because planning helps businesses either avoid problems or minimise the effects when they occur. Some teams can think that if they have a plan it will happen, history tells us this is not the case, but something we have fallen down on is a 'take each day as it comes' policy on transfers. The financial trends pointed out are facts, and there is a reasonable possibility that they are worse now than they were at the end of the last published accounting period. NUFC is not currently capable of providi ng the funds required to improve the squad into a regular UEFA/CL place without using debt to generate the cash. Equally, we don't generate enough revenue to to cover all expenses unless we're competing in Europe. Because transfer funds have been poorly managed, we do not have a great deal to show for the investments over the years. We still retain a number of highly-paid individuals who represent poor value for money, making our squad both inadequate and high-cost. It's not a great situation. We have a threadbare coaching set-up. Considering the millions poured into playing staff, this can only indicate that the coaching element is not seen as being particularly important and that top players will look after themselves. That attitude has got to change otherwise we're in danger of falling behind clubs who maybe don't have the gates or recent relative success we've had but still come out ahead of us on the field. We may well have finished 2nd in the mid and late 90s but it won't be happening under the current regime simply due to the financial numbers involved at the top end of the league. Fred's only hope would be unearthing a managerial gem like Wenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10876 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Also Leazes the past ten years we've finished on average 7th, so we should at least aim to improve on that? whaddya know? I can do wacky-mathematics too. oh, before I forget, will you concede that this club has at best been stagnant for the last ten years? nobody has averaged 1st, so who is best ? Fact is, our average is the 5th highest and only 4 clubs have qualified more for europe and finished higher. So unless a new board can improve on that ? But I'm sure just so long as they have a "plan" it will guarantee success don't care who is best, I was just showing that you can say that consistently we've been the 5th best club in England off the back of European competition, but it's easy to debunk that by proving that it's possible to prove anything with the proper application of mathematics and insanity. and you STILL haven't answered the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Fact is, our average is the 5th highest and only 4 clubs have qualified more for europe and finished higher. So unless a new board can improve on that ? But I'm sure just so long as they have a "plan" it will guarantee success OK, this is purely on a business/footall level- No plan will guarantee success, but structure and forethought will increase the probability of it occuring. If a businessman went to a bank looking for a loan and had no plans in place, he'd be in the branch for little over a minute before being ushered out. Why would a bank do that? Simply because planning helps businesses either avoid problems or minimise the effects when they occur. Some teams can think that if they have a plan it will happen, history tells us this is not the case, but something we have fallen down on is a 'take each day as it comes' policy on transfers. The financial trends pointed out are facts, and there is a reasonable possibility that they are worse now than they were at the end of the last published accounting period. NUFC is not currently capable of providi ng the funds required to improve the squad into a regular UEFA/CL place without using debt to generate the cash. Equally, we don't generate enough revenue to to cover all expenses unless we're competing in Europe. Because transfer funds have been poorly managed, we do not have a great deal to show for the investments over the years. We still retain a number of highly-paid individuals who represent poor value for money, making our squad both inadequate and high-cost. It's not a great situation. We have a threadbare coaching set-up. Considering the millions poured into playing staff, this can only indicate that the coaching element is not seen as being particularly important and that top players will look after themselves. That attitude has got to change otherwise we're in danger of falling behind clubs who maybe don't have the gates or recent relative success we've had but still come out ahead of us on the field. We may well have finished 2nd in the mid and late 90s but it won't be happening under the current regime simply due to the financial numbers involved at the top end of the league. Fred's only hope would be unearthing a managerial gem like Wenger. Brilliant post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Fact is, our average is the 5th highest and only 4 clubs have qualified more for europe and finished higher. So unless a new board can improve on that ? But I'm sure just so long as they have a "plan" it will guarantee success OK, this is purely on a business/footall level- No plan will guarantee success, but structure and forethought will increase the probability of it occuring. If a businessman went to a bank looking for a loan and had no plans in place, he'd be in the branch for little over a minute before being ushered out. Why would a bank do that? Simply because planning helps businesses either avoid problems or minimise the effects when they occur. Some teams can think that if they have a plan it will happen, history tells us this is not the case, but something we have fallen down on is a 'take each day as it comes' policy on transfers. The financial trends pointed out are facts, and there is a reasonable possibility that they are worse now than they were at the end of the last published accounting period. NUFC is not currently capable of providi ng the funds required to improve the squad into a regular UEFA/CL place without using debt to generate the cash. Equally, we don't generate enough revenue to to cover all expenses unless we're competing in Europe. Because transfer funds have been poorly managed, we do not have a great deal to show for the investments over the years. We still retain a number of highly-paid individuals who represent poor value for money, making our squad both inadequate and high-cost. It's not a great situation. We have a threadbare coaching set-up. Considering the millions poured into playing staff, this can only indicate that the coaching element is not seen as being particularly important and that top players will look after themselves. That attitude has got to change otherwise we're in danger of falling behind clubs who maybe don't have the gates or recent relative success we've had but still come out ahead of us on the field. We may well have finished 2nd in the mid and late 90s but it won't be happening under the current regime simply due to the financial numbers involved at the top end of the league. Fred's only hope would be unearthing a managerial gem like Wenger. What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. Most of your points Matt make total sense and from a financial point it is difficult to disagree. However, when I mentioned the "plan" I was referring to the fact that numerous people mention it from the perspective of the footballing aspect, ie a "plan" will guarantee success on the field. It will not. This is clearly rubbish. There is still only one premiership title, one FA Cup, and a number of Champions League and UEFA places. The fact that we have qualified for these more than every other club bar 4 should really tell people the club is not quite so bad as they portray it. The fact that large amounts of money has been squandered on players who have flopped simply can't be blamed on the board. You can blame them for appointing Souness, there is no doubt about that, but a good board backs their appointments, this is a principle that must apply to any club who wish to be successful. And they have done it. Backing Souness was a huge mistake [as was appointing him] but there are many people on this board who said the club should back Souness with the money they did before judging him. Now we have a problem. I am not saying this in support of anyone or anything, simply pointing out that people who are now complaining about the state of the clubs finances, agreed with the actions at the time, therefore they should not really be complaining. They would just be better off admitting they were wrong and joining us who were right in hoping the club can sort themselves out and move upwards again. I think the current board have demonstrated they want to be where Newcastle should be, but another board may not do this. Lots of other clubs do not either. Some of our signings have been quick signings, short term, and some have been planned signings and players genuinely wanted by the manager. This happens at all clubs. And yes, of course the logic of a cash injection to help can't be disputed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. aye Gemma, you should know mate Particularly as you have just proved my point completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. Seconded.... Leazes you must have been the fucking inspiration for the word 'hypocrite' being added to the dictionary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. aye Gemma, you should know mate Particularly as you have just proved my point completely. I've asked you about 3 times on another thread what you would call us if not mediocre. You keep replying to everyone's posts but mine, so don't pretend you always respond. In general if you're stuck for an answer, you pretend you haven't seen the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. Seconded.... Leazes you must have been the fucking inspiration for the word 'hypocrite' being added to the dictionary... you're right, seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. aye Gemma, you should know mate Particularly as you have just proved my point completely. I've asked you about 3 times on another thread what you would call us if not mediocre. You keep replying to everyone's posts but mine, so don't pretend you always respond. In general if you're stuck for an answer, you pretend you haven't seen the question. I don't see all of them. I don't sit all day at work reading this board like you ....... Qualifying for europe regularly for a decade is far from mediocre. I hope you don't experience true mediocrity, because it means I'll suffer it again myself. If you think the last decade has been mediocre, what do you think of all the other big clubs who have been absolutely nowhere and worse ? For instance, the mackems ? [which is where we were before the Halls and Shepherd although I don't expect this to finally sink in] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44996 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What a refreshing change on here to see posts properly addressed and responded to in their entirety. The irony of this comment. Fucking incredible. aye Gemma, you should know mate Particularly as you have just proved my point completely. I've asked you about 3 times on another thread what you would call us if not mediocre. You keep replying to everyone's posts but mine, so don't pretend you always respond. In general if you're stuck for an answer, you pretend you haven't seen the question. I don't see all of them. I don't sit all day at work reading this board like you ....... Qualifying for europe regularly for a decade is far from mediocre. I hope you don't experience true mediocrity, because it means I'll suffer it again myself. If you think the last decade has been mediocre, what do you think of all the other big clubs who have been absolutely nowhere and worse ? For instance, the mackems ? [which is where we were before the Halls and Shepherd although I don't expect this to finally sink in] What are we if not mediocre? Are we dead good? The mackems are shit by the way, not mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gram 0 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 How many people does it take to make Leazes see the obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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