Noel Gallagher: if you join the army you should expect to be shot at

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Noel Gallagher's been branded ignorant after reports he called British soldiers a bunch of moaners. He's also said to have blasted them for getting compensation for injuries. The Oasis star denies it but says they should expect to be shot at.

 

If all he said is they should expect to be shot at that's fair comment isn't it? Don't suppose the fuss will to the greatest hits album any harm, all publicity is good publicity.

[ewerk 30221]

Exactly right and what I've been saying for a long time. When you join the army you should expect conflict and are expected to put your life on the line. This bollocks about getting compensation for being injured is a load of shite, its an occupational hazard.

[Guest alex]

You can expect to maybe go to war but you should be compensated for any injuries. It's a pretty shite country that can't look after its own war heroes imo. Cunts sitting in ivory towers might see differently like.

[Gemmill 44258]

You can expect to maybe go to war but you should be compensated for any injuries. It's a pretty shite country that can't look after its own war heroes imo. Cunts sitting in ivory towers might see differently like.

 

Agree with that. Anyone that returns home injured having fought for their country should be compensated.

 

I do feel a bit sorry for the Army Reservists in the US that got shipped off to Iraq and Afghanistan though. I worked with a lad at PwC who had signed up to get his college tuition paid for and who was bricking it in case he got the call-up.

[ewerk 30221]

If I decide to drive the wrong way down the motorway and am involved in an accident should I get compensated? No, because I knew the risks, similarly people should know what they're signing up for when they join the army. If they're injured and can't work then they should get the same disability allowance as anyone else.

[Guest alex]

If I decide to drive the wrong way down the motorway and am involved in an accident should I get compensated? No, because I knew the risks, similarly people should know what they're signing up for when they join the army. If they're injured and can't work then they should get the same disability allowance as anyone else.

A completely different and a completely moronic example imo.

[ewerk 30221]

It is perhaps a bit extreme but I used it to illustrate the fact that if you partake in an exercise you know to be risky or take a job which you know to be dangerous then you shouldn't expect compensation when you become injured. Should footballers be compensated when they're injured? Its all part of the job.

[snakehips 0]

Expect to be shot at - yes.

 

Compensation - yes.

[ewerk 30221]

Expect to be shot at - yes.

 

Compensation - yes.

 

So why compensate them for something that they expect? Surely they're already being compensated for that by their wages?

[Gemmill 44258]

Haway ewerk, I suspect you know you're talking cobblers here. How much do you think soldiers get paid anyway? What's the going rate for waking up with the expectation of being killed that day?

[Guest alex]

It is perhaps a bit extreme but I used it to illustrate the fact that if you partake in an exercise you know to be risky or take a job which you know to be dangerous then you shouldn't expect compensation when you become injured. Should footballers be compensated when they're injured? Its all part of the job.

Footballers have insurance do they not? And far higher wages. The PFA also looks after pros who fall on hard times and helps them retrain etc. and even pays for operations and so on. In any case, it's a completely different thing. People who joined the armed services do so for a variety of different reasons - to escape a bad home life, to get a job when the prospects of other ones are pretty low (see places like Ashington and would you rather they were dole wallahs?), to serve their country, etc., etc. It's not something I would want to do but I realise I'm privileged enough to not to have had to consider that route. They often do a very hard job in extremely difficult circumstances and when they are injured they deserve to be looked after. There must be 1000's of examples of people less deserving of being cared for than injured servicemen/women. Noel Gallagher is presumably just trying to court controversy. How rock 'n' roll.

[ewerk 30221]

I think the problem is that I'm looking at it in black and white while the rest of you are perhaps bringing emotion into it. Many of you may have had grandparents who fought in the war and this sense of "our boys, out there protecting us and serving our country" while I look at it as any other job which people choose of their own free will. I do honestly believe that people should not be doubly compensated for getting injured in the course of their work where the risk is abundantly clear, I know many of them earn a pittance but that is what they agreed to.

 

 

 

 

Or maybe I'm just talking bollocks.

Edited November 22, 2006 by ewerk

[Guest alex]

How many jobs are chosen purely out of free will like? I know, tomorrow I'll become an astronaut. It isn't black and white in the same way everything else isn't. Like I said, I've tons more respect for a young kid who joins the forces than one who sits on the dole. And what happens if they get injured saving others, or if their commanding officers made errors etc. and that contributed to their getting injured or killed? Again, not a black and white issue.

[ewerk 30221]

How many jobs are chosen purely out of free will like? I know, tomorrow I'll become an astronaut. It isn't black and white in the same way everything else isn't. Like I said, I've tons more respect for a young kid who joins the forces than one who sits on the dole.

 

I think you'll agree that your example of being an astronaut is equally as moronic as my motorway one. You are making it sound like some kids' only choices are the army or the dole? There are other options for employment if people work hard enough and want to improve themselves but the army seems like the most obvious route for people with little prospects. If people want to make a success of themselves then there are other routes than the army.

 

 

And what happens if they get injured saving others, or if their commanding officers made errors etc. and that contributed to their getting injured or killed? Again, not a black and white issue.

 

Again that is the risk they take, they put their lives in others' hands.

[adios 717]

ewerk, aren't you from the North? I'm not sure that I know many Irish people who are able to look at the British army any less emotionally than the English.

[Guest alex]

You were right about the talking bollocks bit.

[Guest alex]

ewerk, aren't you from the North? I'm not sure that I know many Irish people who are able to look at the British army any less emotionally than the English.

I did assume he was a Northern Irish Catholic like, from what I've gleaned in the past and I thought that, in relation to this, he was making an emotional response. As am I, I suppose, although I'm not denying it.

[adios 717]

I can see both sides of the argument, like, it's a tough call.

[Jimbo 172]

I'm all for our armed forces getting all the support and care they need if they have been injured in armed conflict, but compensation ?

 

In my opinion that’s the price on the ticket, an accepted occupational hazard, it makes as much sense as a boxer reporting his opponent for assault.

 

If you can't accept the prospect of being shot, don't sign up.

[JawD 99]

Obviously you have to expect the being shot at bit for signing up. But, Im all for giving them support if they return home missing a limb, poisoned or whatever. Its all very well saying dont sign up if you dont want to get injured, but the package they get hardly amounts to their career being cut short (footballer who by the way also gets support from the pfa in some cases). I also think they'd have trouble getting critical illness cover from their insurers.

 

Im sure the government would much rather pay the few cases needed for injured soldiers than hike all of their packages up to cover the possibility. Fact is, you cant say dont go if you dont like it. Its a career not a sentence and people would just stop signing up.

 

What I dont think though, is that the individual should sue for damages? I think there should be a standard package put in place. If this happens you get X and if that happens you get Y kind of thing.

 

Of course, this also opens up the debate about whether the govenment is providing the required amount of funding to supply those who need adequate equipment to reduce the number of injuries to begin with.

[ewerk 30221]

ewerk, aren't you from the North? I'm not sure that I know many Irish people who are able to look at the British army any less emotionally than the English.

I did assume he was a Northern Irish Catholic like, from what I've gleaned in the past and I thought that, in relation to this, he was making an emotional response. As am I, I suppose, although I'm not denying it.

 

 

My response certainly is influenced by being a Northern Irish Catholic but not in relation to the army. Its the whole culture of people expecting something for nothing that I detest, "I got shot in battle", "I tripped on a paving stone", "I can't get a job" etc etc. People always want someone else to look after them and don't take responsibility, I'm sure that this won't go down well on a Newcastle board but Thatcher was right when she said its all about the individual and people need to stand on their own two feet and take responsibility.

 

Being a Northern Irish Catholic I can see the results of people who have employed this tactic successfully out of neccessity because they got nothing handed to them. Without wanting to sound like my area has the monopoly on hard times my experience of my own family and people I know has shown me how far hard work can get you without relying on the government and others to help.

 

So the army isn't the only route for those with no qualifications and should they choose this route they shouldn't expect a hand out when they get injured in the line of duty.

[Gemmill 44258]

"I got shot in battle", "I tripped on a paving stone"

 

Haway, bit of a difference!

 

"I lost both legs in an ambush", "I was paralysed from the neck down fighting for my country", "I tripped on a paving stone"

 

[ewerk 30221]

Its all about the blame culture that has developed in this country, its never the individual's fault. If you are injured in the line of duty then you should accept that this is what you signed for.

Edited November 22, 2006 by ewerk

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3809]

Its all about the blame culture that has developed in this country, its never the individual's fault. If you are injured in the line of duty then you should accept that this is what you signed for.

 

How about if you're on a bus coming back to barracks and some tim c*nt blows it up?

[Gemmill 44258]

Tbh I think that's something that's pretty easy to say when you've never been put in that position. I suspect there's probably a lot of bitterness when as a young man you lose your legs, or whatever, and you come back to your wife and kids an invalid so I can fully understand people sueing, especially if they feel they were put into a situation through poor decision-making by those in charge.

 

You're talking about someone who was getting paid pretty shit wages to be there in the first place coming home and having to accept that they'll spend the rest of their life, and have to raise their family, on DLA. Sorry, but I think they're due some compensation.

 

It's nothing to do with blame culture either.