NJS

True but you like to think so - my worry is that the "instant expectation" will do for the next one as well and will actually put anyone decent off.

On that basis Bobby would have been sacked early in 3 of the next 4 seasons. In the league in 99/00 and 00/01 we were dross - just as bad if not worse than last/this year. I also don't agree that the squad he took over was as bad as is being implied. (I agree on the cup) 73842[/snapback] I think our two foreign correspondents (Bombadil and Isegrim) are spot on on this one, I think that you too NJS also know the difference. Also, nobody has even talked about the relative managerial CVs of Robson and Souness - they don't really compare. Personally, I am willing to give a manager more time if he has had previous success. And Robson to me had proven he was world class. 73846[/snapback] Won leagues in minor countries? Only kidding - I know what you're saying and I sort of agree but my point is similar to others - I think people do deserve a chance which in your case I'd accept was forthcoming. As I've said before of the shortlist last time I thought Souness was the best choice. With the same shortlist I'm still not ecstatic about the choices. A good alternative would make me happy but I will give whoever a chance.

On that basis Bobby would have been sacked early in 3 of the next 4 seasons. In the league in 99/00 and 00/01 we were dross - just as bad if not worse than last/this year. I also don't agree that the squad he took over was as bad as is being implied. (I agree on the cup)

I agree with the gist of your reply (Especially on morale) but he did wheel and deal a bit getting rid of Goma for example who I thought was a good player. Playing Devil's advocate he made no attempt to get on with/improve the situation of Marcelino - not a popular view I know but when you consider how he fell out with Nobby and Elliot to an extent later on I'd say to try and make out that Bobby was the perfect opposite to Souness is just a tad biased. On a similar note see Keegan with Venison/Clark/Cole.

Going by that reckoning Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd early in his career, Morinho just likes to heap pressure on his rivals in my opinion. If he doesn't win the Champions League with Chelsea this season or next (which I'm sure is what Abramovich wants) then no doubt he'll be saying he wants time. Regarding Souness, I'm not saying give him more time as he was never the right man for the job, rather that he hasn't had time in my view. 73791[/snapback] the best 2 managers at Newcastle in recent times, Keegan and Robson. From the start, they brought an obvious improvement and came across as knowing what they were doing 73808[/snapback] So I imagined 18 months of utter shite (disguised by a cup run) under Bobby? There was no further sign of any improvement until Bellamy/Robert signed (see I can give praise to those two when rightful)

totally agree, I think the club has everything a top manager wants, fantastic facilities, great ground, tremendous backing and the best fans in the business. Any manager wit confidence in their ability should want the job, and anyone turning it down is a fool and a coward for shirking what is really, the biggest challenge in England, but can offer massive rewards for whoever cracks it. 73021[/snapback] I agree but the next shortlist will have names of people who've already turned it down and thats why I'm so unhappy at the moment. Unless he actually uses imagination for a change.

3 months without Owen is a huge pisser but if in the short term it means we can "salvage" Luque then it won't have been a complete disaster.

Thats what I was getting at - when I was 6 I don't think I took baths on my own and certainly not in an "empty" house.

So he doesn't like Managers not telling the truth then comes out with utter shite? Wanker.

I don't want to get slagged off but this seems a bit strange to me. There was a case earlier this year in Basildon where a young girl of about 10 was supposed raped in her bed which caused a storm but turned out to be untrue. I'm not saying thats the case here (maybe it would be better if it turned out that way) but my reaction was that something's "wrong" - can't explain myself very well.

My tip: Don't use porn sites - just download it free from binary newsgroups. Of course that means HDs full of films which is another problem...

Last year due to unused holiday I had the week before, the days in between and the week after off and got bored stupid. This year I've just had the bank holidays - back yesterday and with the trains and the office very quiet I think I'll do the same in future.

I've got hundreds of chargers for different bits of equipment - varied voltage, ampage and polarity. I wish there was a decent universal one - I used to have one but it knacked a hub I had despite being on the correct settings and working for a while.

In sheer football terms perhaps it is shite but for as far as how I feel about the team ive loved for 40 years it is the most depressed and demotivated ive ever been. This is because of Souness, trot out all the excuses I just hate the bloke and the football I am having to endure after my expectations were (falsly) raised by the last 10 years of actually having a team to be proud of. 71727[/snapback] Fair enough but that shows its "Personal" rather than "factual". In 98 when we actually only finished about 5 or 6 points above 3rd bottom and only avoided real shit because of a bit of cup momentum and playing Chelsea before the CWC final when they played with plimmas on I remember saying to my mate that I couldn't face the First division even though we'd done it before. The line in Sit Down by James always comes to mind "If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor" and I see thats becoming more prevalent at the moment and understand it. I wasn't really "fooled" by the Arsenal and West Ham results though I enjoyed them. The reason I'm drifting more to the out camp is that the lack of style worries me greatly. However without and until a valid replacement is available or lined up I think it would be harmful to get rid of him now.

I'm not disrespecting a fan of PC's longevity but saying this is the worst for 40 years is utter, utter shite of the highest order.

It's one of those cases of someone being "fresh" in the attention span - if Led Zep (remaining) had played Live 8 they'd have won it. Also stations like that have an audience who stopped listening to music decades ago. Sorry I meant new music.

I think he'd gone downhill under Bobby to be fair - I think it might have been better for all concerned if he'd left at the end of the season before last when he seemed to have lost the fans. I think its an endightment of Souness I'd accept completely that the fans were so happy and desperate enough to see Robert "come back" that the boos seemed to be overlooked.

Blimey! What's your problem? You think I hate Luque? Why's that? I've never posted owt about Luque except that I had the idea he was signed as a replacement for Robert. I want Luque to succeed, same as I want all of the players to succeed. I even want Souness to succeed, I just don't think he will and for that you reckon I hate somebody. Thought I'd add that you're totally wrong about Robert doing nowt for a year and a half. Even when Souness selected him last season he did ok, the team performances improved until the entire team had one of those now regular woeful displays you refer to above, but with Robert singled out by the manager. 71572[/snapback] I was thinking more in terms of hatred for Souness really. Robert "did nothing" in comparison to what he'd done before and what he is/was capable of imo.

Luque was bought as a striker/attacking left winger. I don't give a shit if he covers his full back just like I never gave a shit whether Robert did. I only care about what they do going forwards. Robert did vrtually nothing for a year and a half and wasgenerally gutless. I'll judge Luque when he's match fit and not part of generally woeful display against probably the 2nd best team in England at the moment at a place where we always struggle. Incidentally I've never heard Souness talking of Luque in the tracking back and proper player cliches - only as an attacker but why let the truth get in the way of your hatred.

I have a feeling it was a token effort of a team selection - a kind of "if it works great, if it doesn't no major loss".

Bowyer's tackel was a yellow but its Lee Bower so... Shola got a red at Everton for what Crouch did. Gerrard can put two hands around Shearer's neck then attempt to butt Bowyer with no action. Shit performance agaisnt a much better team but until we stop facing 12 men at Anfield wee'll never have a chance. ps. It is physically impossible for the linesman to have been able to see that the ball crossed the line through Given (though I think it did).

As I said the firmer line you advocate has always escalated the conflict - thats why I don't think its right to go down that path. The Isarel/Palestine conflict is a more "traditional" conflict which has seen a lot of progress in my lifetime due to compromise. Now I accept that Bin Laden is different in that there is no "concrete" aim but you have to realise that the threat is massively overstated to pander to interests. I'm not belittling the London bomb - there pretty close to me as I work close to Liverpool St - but the idea that thousands of Muslims are making bombs as we speak bent on holy war is paranoid fantasy. Yes there will be some but no way near enough to justify in any way the measures I'm sure you would like to see. As I think it was Rob argued on another thread the way to "control" our country is through intelligence gathering and building links to communities. Everything you advocate would lead to more conflict and you wouldn't be happy with your "safe" country in those circumstances.

GF - every "terrorist" campaign in history has ended with negotiation. "You don't negotiate with terrorists" is the biggest line of bullshit ever put out by politicians. I share your general concerns about Islam but you have to look at how things are changing in some places. There are a lot of young British Muslims who are becoming more "English" in some ways. There are countries in the middle east who have stepped back from fundamentalism in the last 10 or 15 years. Many worries remain but the way forward imo is to encourage an inclusive worls which Fuckwit Bush is opposed to. If you watched The Power of Nightmares you should know how hatred on both sides is fuelled deliberately by the Bush and Bin Laden interests for their own agendas. As with the rest of history it will be the sensible moderates who change things over time.

It may not be about liberating countries (unless you count Palestine) but the principle remains - if you fight terror with terror you create martyrs and increase recruitment more effectively than any campaign they could ever imagine. As I said its been tried and it's never worked. Spookily enough just like capital punishment and long sentences don't reduce crime - who'd have thought eh?

So you confirm all people "associated" with any terrorists deserve to be lumped in with them and treat like shit. Fair enough. Over the history of the empire Britain has tried your approach to terrorism/freedom fighters in various places. It NEVER worked. All the conflicts finally came down to compromise/surrender/victory to a greater or lesser extent. The reaching out was in response to you echoing GF's comments about a lack of postivity from moderate muslims. With people like you around I don't blame them for not bothering.