NJS

Thats pretty much my view - I think a persons beliefs (I actually accept Peter Beardsley as my God) are fine as long as they never leave the house. Teaching kids lies is what really pisses me off.

Things that made the goalposts move: Proving Genesis is bollocks - all of a sudden it became a "metaphor" when the authors wouldn't have a clue what that was. General progress in the understanding of the Earth and its place in the universe. The printing press and the education of the masses to read. The moral progress of civilisation (see how Christians were okay with slavery). None of those were pushed by Theists - in fact I maintain the catholic church were and would be much happier now if only they had the ability to "interpret" the bible - nothing should cause more doubts that a browse of the OT. As Dawkins says what we use to "cherry pick" the bible for the good parts are our own inate sense of morals we have as humans - if you take away the nice but obvious bits and ignore the really nasty bits as we're all a bit more civilised now what exactly is left? - the mythology of one small middle eastern tribe. As I said people are moral for all sorts of good reasons - "thanking" religion for that or for any kind of progress is giving too much credit imo.

What you need to research is Psychiatry and Neurology - those two might not have all the answers but I do know that the effects you describe can be chemically induced in any brain - see the book of Revelation as evidence.

The census, which was actually an invention to get the birth to Bethlehem as prophesised, never happened in Herod's reign. More generally on morality hundreds of religions all over the world all came up with the same general principles - a clear indication that those morals are human nature rather the "god given" - the only thing really supplied by religions is the petty dogma. I think the mainly Chrisian notion that the only thing that keeps people from behaving "like animals" is the fear or love of God is the most insidious, evil notion ever raised.

There a lot less evidence than you think - most is contrived to fit the belief rather than being unquestionable. I'm not 100% sure he existed but tend to err on the positive - if he did he may have said some good things (Filed under "stating the bleeding obvious") but the supernatural part of it is as far-fetched as Jason & The Argonauts or perhaps more apt the legend of Mithras.

Do I need to study Fairies or Astrology in any depth to know they're nonsense? Do I need a degree in classics to dismiss Zeus? "Theology" fails by its definition - the study of something that does not exist. The Sky God of an inerrant bible has been proved to be a lie so they move the goalposts to "something that exists ouside of space and time" - fair enough but that fucker isn't the Abrahamic God that "ordinary" believers pray to.

Would that be Adolf "Choir Boy, given power by Rome to appoint bishops, wrote in Mein Kampf of the Lord's work, never excommunicated but still named as a fucking atheist" Hitler. As Renton said Atheism wasn't their ethos.

Yeah I read The God Delusion a couple of months ago - its a bit "preaching to the converted" as I can't see dyed in the wool theists having a revelation after reading it. Aiming it at the people he says it is - people who've been brainwashed but are feeling uneasy in the face of thought - might work. The Haggard story did make me laugh - I don't care that he's gay but the hypocrisy is hilarious. I'd recommend Dawkins' new web site: http://richarddawkins.net/home

I get what you're saying but I think in general there has to be a recognition that people are inherently "weak" on any number of criteria but thats what makes us human. As I've said before I find it astonishing that anybody believes superstisious nonsense in the face of all reason but while I would like to see it discouraged, all out "punishment" is a step too far. On the other hand some of the measurements on weight are ridiculous - I was looking at a BMI site last week where for a 6Ft man the "healthy" range started at 9St 12lb which is frankly skeletal and in no way "normal" to me.

?????????? But he was Man Utd's captain in that season. Of course he wanted to win the title? Is that all! He's got the comments right but the period wrong. It was the cup final in '99 IIRC Thanks Craig.

?????????? But he was Man Utd's captain in that season. Of course he wanted to win the title? Is that all! Hadn't he packed in by then? - if not then it may have been punditry since - my memories are admittedly twisted by bitterness but I definitely remember seeing him sitting in a Sky box after a match between us looking like a lot happier version of Bagpuss then normal.

Oh fuck off please! Am I missing something with Bruce? Has he done or said something I've missed because I can never understand all these 'plastic geordie' comments he gets. I can understand people not wanting him for his managerial skills but can never understand why he gets slagged by you for his geordie roots Because people remember 95/96 when his Sky punditry left nobody in any doubt where he wanted the title to go.

I might be wrong but I always took the moral to be that it didn't matter in the end - a bit similar to the premise in Total Recall that a man is defined by his actions not by his history.

Amen ! I've got the party poppers and my dancing shoes ready ! sticks of TNT in her coffin with the fuses hanging out the sides and then give everyone a match! Put the saggy old bitch into orbit tbh! Might be awkward to light them with all the people pissing.

I think his cause wasn't helped by not being able to play in the UEFA - and the way Sib turned out compounded that. Maybe he paid the price for Sheff Utd (dunno if that was fair - I was on holiday and missed that).

Has never asked for money. Has had at least $500m in african debt written off. Received death threats from the IRA after Rattle & Hum denouncement before SBS - their most famous song and probably the most anti-IRA song ever written. He does act like a prick when he isn't doing his day job but then again the end justifies the means - what the fuck have you sanctimonious wankers done for the rest of the world? He also happens to be in the best band ever. Thought I'd add a bit of balance.

There was a CSI once where someone did this - the point is it numbs the nerves on your bell end and supposedly delays orgasm - don't know what it would do for her but I think in the CSI it was a bad batch and the lass dropped down dead.

I'm a tad younger than you Bob but that sent a huge shiver down my spine - childhood memories of being allowed to go in the Leazes

"Fuck the lower leagues"

Both acts of desperation though. And just to clarify - the drug I referred to wasn't an illegal substance, it was a medical one. "Pushing drugs in a quiet room" sounds like he was injecting heroin or something. Yes I'm being over-sensitive. I presumed that that was what you meant - I wasn't implying seediness or anything.

I have to join the unpopular camp and say I agree with Fish - cowardice always comes to my mind - more for the "damage" to those left behind than for the actual act though I can see the argument about it being worse going on living if life is that bad. Pushing drugs in a quiet room is one thing - jumping in front of a train and causing trauma to the driver/cleanup crew is another imo.

Don't really dislike any of the curtent lot which is probably down to growing apathy. In the past John Trewick, Wayne Fereday, Pat Heard and George Reilly.

Very funny in its day but been repeated too many times now - agree they should have stopped with the watch. I think the scene in that one where Rodney bought the roller for Del is up there with the end of Blackadder 4 for the most moving scene in a comedy ever (or any other show for that matter).

Oooh take that back! No. I like 5 Beatles songs (from what I've heard). 5 more than me and I've heard them all apart from the stuff they've released post mortem. Only ever heard one Bowling for Soup song though and that was shite.

I expect ANY footballer to be able to hit a decent corner every now and then - should I be thrilled when a £9.5m player does it? Nothing angers me more in football than professional footballers failing to hit the target with a chance from a reasonable distance - Should I accept a £9.5m player who cannot do it? The old "no control over the fee" cliche is sometimes fair enough but I find it fucking laughable that people can defend a player who cost that much money who doesn't look good enough for the reserves. Wanting someone who we think may be a good player to do well is one thing - wankfests over "fantastic corner deliveries" is so far beyond desperation its hilarious.