NJS

Apart from "Mido is a Paedo" (Unlucky that he plays for Boro and his name rhymes) - what were the chants she's on about?

Define "successful" Decent family? Money in the bank? Genuine friends? Admired by anybody but the desperate? Decent songwriter? Remembered in the future? (presuming non-pathetic suicide)

I'd accept that - I think the current generation are the kids of the people who were most disaffected in the 80s.

If you do a search on "youth murders" on the BBC you get stories going back years - for example Damilola Taylor was in 2001. I'm willing to accept a degree of increase but I still think the view is exaggerated. Also this may not be a popular view but in the 80s a lot of youth "steam" was released at football matches - both in terms of actual violence and more general passion compared to today. I'm not saying I'd return to pre-Hillsborough days but maybe its just a fact of modern life that young people need an outlet. The question then becomes do you try and clamp down on that steam (which seems to be the prevailing suggestion), provide a safe outlet or attack the basic need - the latter probably being a harder task.

I think everyone who'd read the other stories had done the sums and knew they didn't make sense so the SS has just named the figure and made another none story. I love the way people actually think theres a difference between the tabloid tossers and the Thomson House muppets.

I always find myself a bit of a schizophrenic when it comes to law and order - there's a part of me which genuinely would be happy with a gunshot to the back of the head for vast tracts of society who just don't "get it" but I try and temper that what I suppose is common sense. The kneejerk build more prisons/lock'em up for years doesn't work - the US has the largest prison population per capita and the harshest sentencing in the world yet still has huge crime rates compared to here and Europe. There is also no correlation whatsoever between murder rates in the states with the death penalty and those without - mainly for the simple reason that the vast majority of murders are heat of the moment things (despite the law needing intent). Its also true that media hype is a factor in perceived crime - murder rates of the last 10 years are actually down. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be shocked by a kid getting shot but the "climate of fear" being built up is an exaggeration. I think this crime/gang thing can be questioned on one level in the same way that alcohol abuse is - in Europe the problem seems to be less apparent (though not unknown) so I think we have to look at the differences between what on other levels are pretty similar countries. My honest opinion is that we are reaping the seed sowed in the last 25 years or so by the tenets of Thatcherism. - I'm not going to quote the "no such thing as society" as that is too easy a crutch - I'm talking about the more general materialistic Me, Me, Me society we have become where worth is measured by celebrity and wealth. I also think that for linguistic reasons we are more influenced by the more negative attributes of Americanism. I also have a strong problem with guns. I know people will say a bad man is a bad man no matter what weapon he uses but I think gun use is now seen as so "cool" that it has to be addressed at source - I honestly don't see any legitimate use for firearms being made apart from for the armed forces and its about time they were more controlled. If it turns out the weapons on the streets are ex-army or are being smuggled then for me it would make sense to attack the supply roots rather than convince idiots that guns are wrong.

Client of a client really. And I probably should have taken their name off it actually. Shh now. Just interested - the bank I work for are in the process of buying them.

Do you work for West LB Meenzer or are they just a client?

Can't give you a link but my opinion remains the same - if Cantona had scored that goal Sky would have shown it every day up to and including the present.

Bit of both imo. As I said there are similar areas in the NE which have the same problems where I'd say theres a desire to live up to a "hard geordie" image which is paralleled by the gangsta shite.

I saw bits of it when switching over from C4. My opinion is theres too much respect for the culture thats evolved in those areas - people are afraid to say that its not cool to be thick, its not cool to sound thick and its not cool to be in gangs but theres a notion that just saying that is racist. Of course similar problems exist in the north east with generations of "scum" which has got nothing to do with race which shows that the bigger picture is more complicated than that.

Cue replies about context or that I'm not expert enough to understand it - it's a book and I can read. You mean as in the context of a parable? But clearly you can read and are clever enough to see what's really going on with your amazing powers of interpretation. How about quoting the hundreds of other examples where he preaches about love, respect and tolerance? Tbh I'm not even getting involved in this debate with you because a. I don't know enough about the bible and b. I can see the defensive stand you're already taking so I'm guessing it's going to be like debating with a brick wall and c. I really dislike your avatar. Fair enough I admit to cherry picking - which is what its all based on after all.

Cue replies about context or that I'm not expert enough to understand it - it's a book and I can read.

On different levels yes. I'm not threatened by a person's individual beliefs but I do feel threatened by the gang forming and the demand for power that often comes from it. I think provoking offence in the sense of challenging belief is a good thing - I don't agree with the old cliche of not mentioning religion as I think talking about it and asking questions is the only way forward. However as I said above I think "Jesus is a cunt" is going too far - I'd rather someone quoted some of his nastier alleged sayings like the ones about serving him by abandoning your family or him destroying non-believers.

Its the get-out clause for religion. "Causing offence" is applied in the main case in a very arbitrary way with no attempt to have a sense of humour which is obviously the intent of the message. Of course the "Jesus is a cunt" case is a deliberate attempt to cause offence which even I would shy away from doing deliberately to that level but I do support the right to do it. The Dispatches case involves the police wasting hours of time and no doubt money in the name of defending religion. It looks to me that there is a case that channel 4 did "embellish" some of the footage but the fact remains that the laws on incitement were in my view broken by some of the statements they recorded. There is no possible context that I can think of that negates the "We hate you" sentiments yet the "crime" seems to be the fact that it was recorded, not that it was said. Imagine if they had recorded Nick Griffin saying "We hate the pakis" would the police have bent over backwards to put into context?

But if a Muslim prayer leader is recorded saying "We hate the Kuffaars" and "kill the Kuffaars" then its out of context and okay. Dispatches

Traditional definition brings only one person to mind for me - Billy Bragg.

Finally got mine today.

There's a post in the match thread on N-O which sums up my feelings: "Okay Allardyce, who are you and what the fuck have you done with my football club" This air of competence can't last.

I thought Viduka did a lot of quiet dirty work - the striking equivalent of what Butt does/did. When they score I wanted to get to the end with the 3 points being able to feel positive about the character of the team - and thats what happened. Shola was shit though.

(Assuming a shred of truth) What the hell is it with these players who can't even be bothered to locate their families where they work? Thousands if not millions of people (especially from the NE) move lock, stock and barrel for work all the time but these people who earn enough money to not have to care about buying the best houses, schools and whatever else they think they need to be happy "choose" to base their families elsewhere. Its not exactly as if footballers partners are usually high-flyers career-wise is it? Fuck them I say.

Playing Devil's advocate if someone from the English FA dismissed a suggestion that the World cup would be held in the Caribbean and stated that the region had contributed nothing to the sport, it would be less than a second before the word "racist" would be used.

Reading between the lines there was something iffy about West Ham's attitude/behaviour because I don't believe "we decided he was undervalued" for one minute. I also think the cheating cockney twats should consider themselves lucky to still be in the premiership.

When I still lived in Shields I woke up once and looked out of the window to see a kid trying to break into my car. I made the mistake of waking my Mam and telling her to phone the coppers. I went out and couldn't see him but walked down the street into the back lane at the end just as he jumped back over a wall from the backyard he'd been in. I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck (wasn't big - about 15/16) and was just about to drag him back to the street when a copper van turned up and when I turned to see them , the kid pulled away and did a runner. The coppers chased him but lost him. The copper told me "off the record" I should have lamped him to quieten him down but anything more is going too far. Having said this, this happened about 12 years ago and having read recent stories I'd probably think twice about doing it now bearing in mind kids carrying knives etc. Where I live now I'm not worried as its virtually crime free.

Carlisle in the 70s went 4>3>2>1>2>3>4 in one year more than the minimum I think - not sure which one they spent 2 in but it wasn't the first.