NJS

He took over an average squad which he has strengthened in numbers. The team is worse.

Yes. And yes. Pathetic isn't it. Result - not necessarily - shocking performance - yes. I expect at least 15 out of the 20 left. Are Everton and Pompey "good" teams because the managers have had time or because they have reasonable squads with managers who suit them - I'd argue the latter. I've already given my view on this pathetic "we're 9th, a few points behind 5th" shite - come back when the fixtures have evened themselves out at the end of January.

More of the turgid dross we have come to expect. Another 20 games of this - occasionally we'll play somebody as shit as Brum or Fulham and scrape the odd point. The good teams will laugh at us and we'll be told that finishing 13th/14th is all we should expect. I for one find it unacceptable.

I remember years ago The Sun having a story about a porn version of the Spielberg film called "Schindler's Fist" which asterisked the fist and said the title referred to an act "too obscene to be described in a family newspaper like The Sun" (probably true) but the hypocrisy stank. The funny thing is if all celebs were family people who had no dirty public laundry the papers would wither and die.

11 years away means I've toned down slightly - when I speak to mates or go back up north I just find that injecting more swearing (especially the c word) kickstarts me back to how I was. In general I admire people who keep it eg Lawrie MacMenemy rather than people who semi-deliberately lose it eg Waddler.

Brickbat by Billy Bragg (I really want to add one of those "thread over" lines but realise love songs can be very personal)

Fuckers on trains who sit on the outside and when you go for the empty seat give you a "you've just killed my first born" look. Fuckers on trains who use a slight delay to phone work to announce they won't be in until 9:10 when you can tell just by looking at them that their job is the most unimportant in the world and their lateness DOESN'T FUCKIN MATTER ONE IOTA. Fuckers on trains who tut and whinge at a bunch of shoolkids who are just being kids like calling each other gay etc, etc - were you never a kid you twat!!! Fuckers on trains who nod off then snore and dribble. (Nice pleasant jouney into work this morning)

"You never count your money, when you're sittin' at the table. There'll be time enough for countin', when the dealin's done." Fuck some days I wish you'd just fold'em! Forget all this attractive football shite, we haven't played attractive football consistantly since SBR took the team to third. How are people going to react when at home against Derby Allardyce sets his team to stiffle the opposition? If it works and we win, I'll be over the moon. If Allardyce finishes us higher year on year for (say) 3 years running, getting us back into Europe long term but with some dull football, i'll be more than happy. You seriously want us to appoint a fifth manager in the space of three years, just to avoid the odd bit of boredom, even if there's some fun (like Arsenal) mixed in there. We're already a laughing stock man. Even the mackems accept their lot in life with more dignity than this. Were you a Shepherd fan? Serious question because he was also keen on getting rid of any manager that looked like they might not finish top 5, and that's why most fans can't stand the fat fuck. For sacking people at the wrong time and making the Newcastle job about as appealing as England, though it was very appealing when he took charge. Whats' the point of football? Is it as entertainment or as some point scoring exercise akin to the FTSE index? The way I look at it unless Ashley puts serious money in we aren;t going to win the league or qualify for the CL anytime soon. That leaves at best UEFA places and the cups. Given the seriousness the "big" clubs have placed on the FA cup in recent years thats a longshot. Whats left? Vying with Everton and Pompey for 5th/6th so we can play 10 games against pub teams before failing again? What's left is entertainment - pride in how we play - thats selfish pride btw not this "everyones second team shit". Anything else will soon get the contempt it deserves - falling crowds and more nastiness a la Liverpool game. On the sacking thing as Jimbo has said giving people time makes sense. Recognising you've got the wrong man and changing it makes just as much in my view.

I'd say we're sniffing, but not going so far as to piss on them yet. We're only 5 points off fiifth pace with games against Derby and Wigan coming up. People are still vehemently complaining. Sorry to repeat the point from earlier but after those two games the fixtures get infinitely harder. I'd be very surprised if we're in such a promising position at the end of Jamuary on current form. And again you're talking about where we might be, I'm talking about where we ARE. We ARE 10th - 5 points of 5th - I'm going to take a stand here and say that depsite what people say about not caring where we finish this year that if this was the end of the season I'd find this position combined with the quality of the football to be completely unacceptable. Emphasis on the combination. If we were higher and drab that's okay, likewise entertaining and mid-table - both give hope for the future. If that makes me unrealistic and kneejerk then I don't care.

I'd say we're sniffing, but not going so far as to piss on them yet. We're only 5 points off fiifth pace with games against Derby and Wigan coming up. People are still vehemently complaining. Sorry to repeat the point from earlier but after those two games the fixtures get infinitely harder. I'd be very surprised if we're in such a promising position at the end of Jamuary on current form.

Those of us with severe reservations about his appointment were "fooled" by the argument that with better players and more transfer funds it would be different. What he has done is taken good players down to a sub-Bolton level. This shows he only knows one way to play which is why my reservations have become stronger. I do agree sacking him now would be pointless - but if I were Ashley or Mort I'd be scouring the football world for a replacement with a view to May at the very latest.

To come: Chelsea x2 Man U x2 Liverpool away Arsenal away Pompey away Villa away Everton away Spurs (false position) away. Blackburn and Man City only teams above us played away. I'd say that was skewed list of fixtures compared with whats gone. Those are our future fixtures, we can only judge the past ones which haven't really been "easy". And in which we've performed better than last year. Judging by the performances so far I expect about 6 points from those games if we're lucky. We'd better not start losing against garbage at home. The same as we took from them last year then. We supposedly now have a much better manager and setup - is it wrong to expect improvements to performances and results? Is it wrong to expect 6 months of "better" management to make a difference?

To come: Chelsea x2 Man U x2 Liverpool away Arsenal away Pompey away Villa away Everton away Spurs (false position) away. Blackburn and Man City only teams above us played away. I'd say that was skewed list of fixtures compared with whats gone. Those are our future fixtures, we can only judge the past ones which haven't really been "easy". And in which we've performed better than last year. Judging by the performances so far I expect about 6 points from those games if we're lucky. We'd better not start losing against garbage at home.

To come: Chelsea x2 Man U x2 Liverpool away Arsenal away Pompey away Villa away Everton away Spurs (false position) away. Blackburn and Man City only teams above us played away. I'd say that was skewed list of fixtures compared with whats gone.

All I want is a bit of good football - too much to ask? I've virtually stopped going to games now - couldn't even be arsed to go to Fulham which would have been easy for me - theres no incentive whatsover apart from seeing mates and drinking - its like the bad days of the 80s/early 90s all over again except at 10 times the cost. Bottom line is I refuse to pay £30/£40/£50 to watch that level of shite - another six months of this (odd victory aside) and the home crowds will reflect that attitude as well. I will also re-iterate my point that our fixtures till now have been easy - I think we're in a very false position.

Bang on. and they are the games that we had no fight for last season and they would have turned us over. Like Derby and Reading? Sunderland with a bit of luck? Another myth is that Allardyce would make us hard to beat - bollocks. If fulham had had McBride back rather than the shit they did have up front they would have beaten us imo - thats how shit we are.

That's from the Allardyce "give me 5 years" sch0ol of bullshit. We have players who cannot pass to a team mate 10 yards away. Players who cannot control the odd ball that does reach them. Players who look like they will never score. Its hardly surprising the football is absolutely diabolical. Fulham were abysmal. But for one moment of quality from Viduka we would have drawn with them to go with our points off Sunderland and Boro and our defeats to Derby and Reading. Can you explain how a team that was "average" last year, bordering on poor but occasionally played a bit of football can actually have gone backwards? I can - selection, tactics and coaching. Can you explain how a team who were as shit as Man City can now be an attractive team (admittedly only at home) - I can - selection, tactics and coaching. I remember a few ugly wins under Keegan, Dalglish and even Bobby - I loved them - none were anywhere near as depressing and worrying as that debacle last night. I'm nailing my colours the Jimbo et als' mast - wrong man for us. Also on being fickle I'm going to sound like LM here but I don't care - I've watched NUFC when we've been properly shit - there was an excuse then - there isn't now - thats the fucking difference.

I think the only players we have who would "work" as the non central front 3 in a 4-3-3 are Milner and N'Zogbia. His problem is that the if thats the way he wants to play there are no places for Owen or Martins.

I wouldn't mind results like that with horrible performances if it at least hadn't looked like it was just as likely Fulham would score.

I've said before he should have been sacked for backing Wright-Philips over the Elliot sending off at Stamford Bridge the other year - but then again he was a typical Spurs cheat as a player. I'm also not frightened to say that being a well spoken black bloke helped get his career started on TV.

Anything which involves dealing with the public where respect is expected. Multiply the aversion by a thousand if it involved dealing with people who'd been drinking.

Still not enough football and "proper" chances created - we now seem to rely on set pieces too much. Also playing against "shut up shop" teams exposes our lack of creative flair. Can't knock the effort/fight/spirit though.

Trying to be an optimist I hope Sam realises thats its "blood and guts" displays like this that will win the fans over and might make him realise why there was such a bad reaction to the 3 shit away performances + Liverpool. Hopefully those will now be seen as the low point. We still need to create more chances and play more football of course.

I think this loyalty thing is becoming more interesting. In dark moments I do find myself joining the "lets get relegated and get rid of the sky boys" school of thought but as the mackems have shown that doesn't work - they just come back as soon as you come back up. Even then having say 30k in the second division wouldn't guarantee better support - I think football has changed too much which is why as you allude to there are no clubs now where a manager would get an "easy" ride of that much time. Thats why I think Sam is being daft with his 3/5 year thing - even if he thinks that and it makes sense he has to realise that expecting it anywhere in the current climate is stupid. I would also point out that adding to your mention of Liverpool that they do have fans who think the lack of challenge for the title renders Benitez as a lame duck (see Houllier) and I honestly think if they hadn't won the CL the pressure on him would have snapped by now.

I've always laughed at Old Firm fans having flags with "100% loyal" on them - apart from odd times when one or the other win everything its a fucking joke to think they've ever been tested on this score. Rest of the post is pretty much spot on as well.