NJS

So if he doesn't want/expect to win and the performance doesn't really matter, what the fuck is he bothering for? What the fuck are the fans who've paid £50 to watch it supposed to think? I honestly don't care how many games we win or lose from now on - I just want this bastard sacked.

When the Bellamy/Souness thing was going on I was pretty much behind Souness as I thought (and still think) that his side of the story made more sense. However the reason why the outcome (including Souness leaving) was inevitable was because Souness was a stubborn, bloody-minded twat (a quality I thought would make him succeed). The thing about people now having a go at Allardyce is that I see the same kind of bloody-mindedness in him ("I'm a top man" etc) which may result in him being more determined to see things out "his way" and for him to persevere with the things attracting the most criticism like Zoggy's position. I guess what I'm trying to say is that being a stubborn bastard can work for you or against you but you have to make sure you're right first - I don't think Allardyce is.

People made the fair point when Shepherd needed the PL clubs to vote to allow Roeder to be manager that "they would wouldn't they" as it meant no danger. Its the same for managers now backing Allardyce - known (and limited) entity.

Cacapa was probably correct if he was injured - when he did the same for Rozenhal I thought we're 2-1 down with 35 mins left and you've just wasted a substitution to prove a point you stupid twat. Another sign.

Despite me mentioning it in a couple of posts the key word for me isn't "entertainment" - its "competence". I'll be the first to admit that during the summer and pre-season when speaking to mates I said it was great to have someone competent in charge - thats the impression I got with his transfer dealings and the friendlies. Now however I believe I was fooled and he honestly doesn't know what he's doing - its not even this "playing people in the wrong position" thing for me - it goes deeper than that imo. As people have said the ultra-negativity is at the core and the simple lack of being able to see that for all else they may be we do have some decent footballers in the quad so why not let them play football instead to hoofball? The sad answer as has been said is that he can't adapt to better players or different expectations - he knows one way to play and regardless of whether it "works" or not I feel its completely wrong for NUFC.

Yes it does - they got a better manager who was right for them - we didn't. Sorry but I laughed at "People will suss them out" - that should be Allardyce's epithet. He means, people will find out 'how to stop them playing'. I know - I just find it ironic considering the end to last season Bolton had and our start - it seems to me people have sussed big Sam's "way".

Yes it does - they got a better manager who was right for them - we didn't. Sorry but I laughed at "People will suss them out" - that should be Allardyce's epithet.

"We were never going to get into Europe" Where do you think Man City will finish Fish? If the answer is top six (which I think is possible) can you explain why the task for NUFC is/was so much greater?

As long as he doesn't go for Bruce I think either losing to Stoke or a not very unlikely pointless January could see the pressure become too much. Cue Shearer as caretaker till the summer. (Not saying thats what I want but its feasible)

Is it any coincidence that all thost teams have new managers ???? Of course not, changing manager does nothing, does it ? Missed Bolton as well.

The thing is Bolton weren't consistently good - they had a couple of good seasons followed by average - not a sign of constant progress or a plan. I think overall they were no more at the level of a Souness/Roeder team with breaks one way or another depending on the year - say Roeder last year if Owen hadn't been injured and we'd finished 6th/7th (not that ludicrous an idea). This is why I was never inspired by his appointment . I always referred to Wimbledon of old as football murderers because their primary aim was to destroy football and get the 90 minutes over with as quickly as possible but with an effective edge - exactly as Bolton were with varying degrees of success. As has been said before the argument that better players to work with and/or more money would mean that effectiveness would be more consistent is proving worryingly elusive so far. I have also said in the past that I thought the idea that most Newcastle fans want "proper" football above all else was a myth - I always argued the way large sections of the ground bayed for the ball to be "twatted forward" on occasion proved that a winning form of long ball football would be popular. I think now that that view may have been a little harsh and there is a lot of the mythical knowledge among the fans that that kind of football is ineffective as any kind of long term plan in the modern game - another sign that Allardyce is the wrong man for us. Another point I'd make is that the basic mistakes he's made this season should have been apparent from analysis of his infamous data - a sign it useless unless you can read it?

So we have to stop good teams and now we also have to stop teams "who are fighting". Fuck off you incompetent, negative piece of shit.

Doctor Who was canny - I still don't like Tennant and won't watch the next series because of Tate but I quite enjoyed that. Thought it was quite "brave" to have people dying.

and there was me, foolish enough to expect some progress. 2 more points each season for 5 years will takes up to what - 53? Pushing 6th with that many - hallelujah. My reluctant prediction of finding our true position by the start of Feb took into account at least 4 points from these 2 games as well.

Your a journalist's dream, the kind who'd rather lose playing well in a 5-4 than win but not in a pretty way. I'd take 38 1-0 wins all with own goals if it meant success. The Keegan years are long gone, get a reality check. Is there a happy medium? 38 Fulhams would empty the grounds and destroy SKY.

I'd also add that Ashley's stated ambition is to with the league within 5 years - this is where we've moved on from the Shepherd school of thought (UEFA ever year). How many think Allardyce fits that ambition? (whether its realistic or not)

I think in my view Allardyce is "suffering" from continuing where Souness and Roeder left off - frustrating the fans in the same way with mistakes which look obvious. Having said that, that's part of the job - I agree with Jimbo's "embarrassing" description with the point that its a cumulative thing - pride in a decent performance (Arsenal aside) seems like a distant memory. Again you sound like we should settle - do you honestly think that Allardyce is the manager to even have us finishing a constant 5th which now seems like the limit of what we dare to hope? - I don't. This idea that nobody would take us on is bollocks - managers have egos just like players and the good ones would relish it.

On the whole I agree but think Cacapa is better than Taylor - I'd see Cacapa/Faye as my first choice. The Barton thing reminds me of Butt - it looked like there was no way back for him but all it takes is a few decent performances for most people to move on - Barton has shown glimpses of being a decent player but with a lot still to do.

We've played Derby twice which means we have 2 games left with a max of 11 - be still my beating heart. (One of which on current standings is a derby which is more unpredictable than a "normal" game against a shit team). It'll be an improvement, that's all I ask. You're like a Big Brother contestant that wants fame without any of the work. On current performance levels we will be lucky to win any more away games. As I said the mackems at home is unpredictable - 6 points is ambitious. I was willing to take an "average" season if there were signs that we were getting harder to beat and were becoming nastier to play against and upset the good teams a la Bolton. His stuff about not being good enough against the good teams and needing to stop them made/makes sense - what I didn't expect is the same ethos against the shite - that's what I find unacceptable.

We've played Derby twice which means we have 2 games left with a max of 11 - be still my beating heart. (One of which on current standings is a derby which is more unpredictable than a "normal" game against a shit team).

Exactly what I'm on about - not losing to Birmingham, Fulham and Derby is now "an acceptable run".

Most people expected points of Derby and Wigan before the shit hits the fan. Now that we've failed in the first part of that the pressure has increased. (Anyone who considers one point of Derby as a result should be shot)

It should be long enough to see signs of something - hope, promise - call it what you like but just something to give you something to look forward to in the future. If a new manager produces the dross that Allardyce has which is completely without anything but the promise of more football murder to come then yes I would get rid.

No, but nor am I stupid enough to think that changing the manager every 12 games (because you and Jimbo have been advocating sacking him since then) until we get someone who makes the exact team selections I'd like him to, and subs the players I want him to when I want him to is the right thing to do. I mean what happens if we get a new bloke in and he struggles for the first 12 games and you and Jimbo can't see what direction the club is going in? Will it be time for another change? Answer that seriously by the way, cos I can't see how it would be any different if we made another change and you didn't like what he was doing. You'd want shot again. It's fucking ridiculous man. By the way, all this harping on about the mistakes he's making etc. Fair enough, he's doing some stuff I don't quite understand, and I don't always see the sense in, but it's fucking comical the way some on here carry on as if they would be able to walk into the job and do it better. I'm not saying people can't criticise or have an opinion, but seriously the way some go on you'd think a couple of successful seasons on FM08 has actually qualified them to apply for the fucking job when in reality they wouldn't and don't have a fucking clue. I never wanted him and my fears have been realised - he was supposed to be the best english manager available - given the hype I'd expect improvement - there is none.

I honestly don't get this acceptance of us being shit. I know the mackems and others accuse is of having ideas above our station but I think we've been brow-beaten into this idea that mid-table is "okay" and a staging point for the future. Allardyce's 5 year shit is another facet of this - all designed to lower our expectations. They then use the "lack of patience card" if we have the temerity to expect decency. Of course they then expect the mythical support on the basis that if we string too passes together all of a sudden the team are gods. Well it doesn't work for me - I expect NUFC to play good football and I demand that given the money we generate and the amount that the fuckers are paid that they can do the basics. I demand players who can pass a ball. I demand players who can hit the target. I demand a manager who doesn't think stopping utter drivel like Fulham and Derby from playing is a valid basis for anything, let alone winning a football match. I demand a team that will go to Reading, Sunderland and Fulham and actually try and win the game. I won't wait 20 games before judging a team and manager as shite. I won't wait 3 years for a team that will give me any kind of pride and I won't accept that the "top 4" are untouchable. I won't accept that we should be happy to be rivals of Portsmouth and Everton. If this makes me unrealistic or knee-jerk I don't care - the alternative is to watch any love of football I have wither and die.