NJS

Not overwhelmed by the signings though look okay - surprised no sales but the cynic in me thinks that the injury to Taylor was karmic on that score.

I think you can consider them without reference to us and I've been surprised how shit they've been lately - my hope is that Ellis will think that he's spent a lot for no reward and may re-consider his future backing.

Fuck the posh cunts. Even a revolutionary like me wouldn't go quite that far - however sailing a yacht in those waters suggests an element of contributory stupidity.

Random thoughts: Routledge and Van Aahnolt will be wasted in that team - they are too much like footballers - though Guttierez would help and I assume he was injured. Williamson looked okay. Carroll is starting to bug me as much as Shola - he struts around like he thinks he's a good player and he just fucking isn't. Smith has gone way off the boil lately. Those praising Leicester's fight which is fair enough should realise that most teams will do the same from now on in - my obvious worry is that we simply don't create chances to win games. Forgot to add - if we'd had that ref in the home game against West Brom we'd have beaten them but that's something else we'll have to get used to.

At least you try and debate things without resorting to childish comments like manc mag so I'll respond in a similar adult fashion to you. I don't know what you mean by "muslim" views. There is always going to be "some" areas where someone has views with elements that co-incide with almost anything you care to name. I would say that I would agree that putting people in the slammer and imposing punishment where appropriate is right but that doesn't make someone a "muslim" because a muslim has that view, I think it is just imposing a rule of law that is right and correct. I believe in the taxpayer paying for elements of the welfare state ie education, Health Service, Transport etc but that doesn't make me a raving mad socialist either. I believe we should look after the less fortunate in society but at the same time impose a limit on benefits especially on those who show no inclination to work but that doesn't make me an evil Tory bastard. These are just views. I said to manc mag that the Armed Forces didn't really want gays in it but it has been forced on them [by do gooders and pc correct imbeciles ?] who they interfere in things that really don't concern them and they don't understand, and he is trying to tell me something completely different, or whatever he is trying to say I'm not bothered about. Gays used to be banned from the Forces, there was a reason for that. I'm also just making a point to meenzer by the way I'm sure he's a decent bloke and I've nowt against him. The thing is your main objection to Muslims seems to be that they don't integrate (which in some places is a fair point but not universal) and their values and culture are different to yours - all I'm saying is that your views on a few things seem pretty much in line with a lot of Muslim ones which are typically quite "conservative" - I don't mean that in the party sense but in terms of respect for the law and justice system and what are normally called family values. Whereas you think free speech should be limited by anti-british limits, most Muslims think free speech should be limited on religion - two different subjects but the principle of limiting free speech on something you don't like spoken against is the same. This leads me to ask what is so alien about their culture and values that you don't like if it can be demonstrated they align at several points? Of course I'm not talking about the "militant" ones who want to abuse troops etc - just the vast majority who just get on with their lives and as I said polls show have a lot more respect for what you call British values than someone like me has.

LM - One minute you're proud of the fact that the armed forces "don't like gays" and then the next you use the Muslim attitude to try and scare Meenzer - as I've said before it's actually funny how Muslim a lot of your attitudes are.

We've posted articles proving the birthrate stuff leading to a Muslim majority is absolute horseshit even in terms of 500 years. Can you explain a "logical" path to your conclusion. Feel free to post numbers of Muslim immigrants per year required until it happens (without anybody noticing of course) and any other evidence that's relevant.

Why don't you read HF's posts about the ratio of immigrants in work who produce a net benefit to the economy or is that too complicated for you? Talking of unanswered points we're still waiting for any example whatso-fucking-ever of how a Muslim has ever effected your life or culture or how Muslim culture has ever affected you.

Theres a lot of shit talked about Bankers upping sticks and leaving London but the City would be fucked without (legal) Aussies and probably illegal third world cleaners etc.

Yeah vote for a party who represent big business because they just hate the cheap labour that immigration brings. Do you seriously suggest repatriation of all immigrants who don't meet your approval mark?

Christian values like banning women from being CofE bishops? or Catholic priests?

I dont know whether to believe this or not................. certainly answers a lot of questions i guess............. but most conspiracy theories do.................... I'm torn.................... I've got the Power of Nightmares downloaded somewhere - it made perfect sense to me and you should watch it if its on YouTube.

I still maintain the hope that someone who knew someone who drowned in the floods of 2007 will find the bishop of Carlisle and break the fuckers legs but that's an aside.

I hate to say it but a surprisingly brisk incoming list makes me think an outgoing is more possible.

Department S

I don't really blame people in the third world for wanting to come here - I don't see how you use "fault" for someone who just wants a life. That doesn't mean I think they have a "right" to a life here but the desire is another thing. I'd also say that catching snippets of those UK border force shows which seem to contain a lot of Afghani illegals that you could argue that's our fault.

Time to gladly admit I'm wrong... http://www.crimlinks.com/Prison%20Population.htm One in 7.6 are either non-British or have no nationality recorded. Prison population stats are always dodgy though - the religosity of US inmates goes beyond even that of the general populace but even I don't use that to say theres a link. I think there are studies I've read about which show that UK judges do show bias (surprise, surprise) in sentencing blacks so I guess that would extend to non-brits.

Don't forget emigration though - the net numbers are what's important from a strictly resource allocation pov.

I don't honestly know Stevie - when you say you aren't and describe how you think in broad terms it rings completely true that you aren't. On the other hand I think some of your generalisations go beyond simply being "un-pc" (which I don't mind at all by the way). I think you have an over the top sense of Englishness (and Geordieness for that matter) which is a bit too black and white (no pun intended). I think you need a bit more realism on some things.

Of course - I consider myself broadly left wing but my Mam was Leon Trotsky compared to me. I'm not one of those who thinks anyone who mentions the word immigration is automatically a racist or right wing - I don't mind discussing it at all but I hopefully do that without what I think of as bad starting points like notions of Britishness/Englishness which though undefinable are set in stone. I'd also put LM at about 85 on your scale.

I think without true stats its always going to be hard on illegals - they could spend hundreds of millions on somehow screening every lorry and boat that comes in but it may be that the number who do make it don't really make a difference apart from causing outrage. I don't know enough to be able to define what an "acceptable" figure would be.

I suppose its time for updates I've just spoken to the woman I went out with the other week - her life is a bit chaotic at the moment in that she only moved to London just before xmas and needs to find a new place to live (was living with a friend). She now has done and is moving in this weekend and has said she'll ring me in the next week or so to arrange another date - call me naive but from the good chat we had when we went out, her description of her life is genuine so I'm perfectly okay with the situation at the moment (as I said I really like her). I spoke to woman "B" last weekend and was going to meet her tomorrow but she's cancelled saying she needs to work with a promise of a rearrangement - I had decided to use this as a testing ground to see how I felt about the multi-dating thing so again I'm a bit schizo in that missing out on the "test" is disappointing but another part of me thinks I've avoided something that may have made me feel bad. I emailed woman "C" last Thursday asking to meet her and I've had no reply - looking like a write-off at present. I haven't "opened negotiations" with anyone new at the moment.

I understand the need for defenders with Taylors' and Enrique's injuries but I still think if we don't sign a creative midfielder we're fucked.

And so far as the likes of you are concerned, anything deviating from a hard-line approach or with a nod to realism makes you a brainwashed, Guardian-reading "do-gooder" who cleans the toilets of mosques for a living. Which is why neither side will ever agree and this thread and versions of it will keep happening. Again and again and again. Tedious, isn't it? Both sides summed up perfectly. From my perspective it is definately not a race thing as such. Its more a general dislike / mistrust of people who seem unwilling to merge into society. I come into contact every day from the school yard to work to the pub with "foreigners" who are taking a full part in society, are open , friendly and skin tone never enters my mind. There are others however others who do close themselves off, dont try and fit in and as such make themselves stick out. This however is just a mirror of everyday relationships that we all encounter that have the same results. There will be people in the office who are stand offish and as such do not form relationships and become the brunt of the "packs" jokes. On top of all this we are living in tough times with a joke of an imigration policy. The two sides of life are bound to be muddied. True but the point is that Leazes see anyone who doesn't fit in as you describe as a threat to his way of life and to his actual life - I've asked for examples of the first without success and the second is ridiculous. It's this perceived threat to "Britishness" (which they can never define anyway) that marks people who may have doubts about immigration as root core racists imo. I'd also say that despite some false starts the current immigration system isn't that bad - the points system makes sense and as I've said the only element I'd limit severely is the arranged marriage importation of uneducated Southern Asians.

Theres a contractor at our place who has this app on his phone which "imitates" a Star Trek tri-corder and "identifies" the alien species of the person its pointed at - and yes we did rip the piss but being a nerd he loved it.