NJS

Since I moved south I've only bothered with 3 midweek games - the first Barcelona CL game, the Gullit derby and Beardsley's testimonial. A pointless replay against Plymouth in the current conditions under Ashley didn't even get on the radar.

That's sometimes the problem with instilling "democracy" in places where it doesn't really fit - people just revert to old tribal or religious allegiances (see Iraq or half of Africa ) or they vote for candidates foisted on them because they have no real choice. I remember Ortega losing elections in Nicaragua because the CIA put up a candidate and basically told the people that if he wasn't elected the US would bully the world into destroying their economy. The Taliban angle is also an indication of how practicality triumphs over principle in foreign policy - odious regimes are left untouched as long as there's business to be done while relatively harmless countries like Cuba are made into pariahs. I think everyone generally accepts that but imo it is made worse when people like Bush or Blair add some kind of moral crusade element to their actions. Basically if Saddam had played ball, nobody would have cared how many Kurds he gassed.

The way I read it was that that was why Karzai was chosen as the puppet - he promised to deliver the gas pipeline.

It would go back to being the same third world heroin farm with no effect on anyone it was before the Yanks, Russians and firstly the British fucked it up. Training camps were a problem. heroin farm is a problem like An infinitely larger effect on more people in the west than Islamic terrorism could ever dream of.

By a lot of what I would guess are your definitions, I'm Anti-British - I despise the institution of the royal family, the aristocracy, the CofE and the rest of the establishment and I have no respect for the judiciary or the police. Should I move? Does my ancestry/birthright give me the extra right to hold those views that Immigrants don't have?

It would go back to being the same third world heroin farm with no effect on anyone it was before the Yanks, Russians and firstly the British fucked it up.

What about the proven abuses in Iraq? Do you think that no "accidents" as you described Bloody Sunday have happened elsewhere without any punishment including the current Conflicts? And you use the word "naive" - incredible.

Okay I didn't mean to imply zero sympathy - my "rule" as such is to start with a median level of sympathy for any death or tragedy and then adjust that level up or down. For example theres a story today of a Canadian being mauled to death by his "pet" tiger - that's a downward movement for me. Child abuse deaths like Baby P or Madeline McCann (sorry for the assumption) are up movers. What I meant was that for my previous reasons, troops are normally "downers" as well.

are you also a muslim sympathiser ? They are doing a job son, they are not blowing up shopping centres and aeroplanes. What do Muslims have to do with Bloody SUnday?

Yeah I know and I realise that Alex - especially when you consider a lot of recruits come from the NE but I still think theres a large choice element. I don't go as far as calling them "Murderers" or anything like that (though that does apply to the SAS imo and they're usually careerists) but I stand by the lack of full sympathy. Whether you look at the British armed forces or the American or the resistance in the 5 countries being bombed i think you'll generally find that the majority involved in direct combat come from the poorer walks of life back home so choices are limited. I have nothing but sympathy for those men and women. To a point yes - I've always liked the "a gun is metal tube with a working class man at either end" quote but I honestly think that even accepting Alex's point about the dole, that UK/US troops are largely there by choice. I think in the past your argument was certainly more true but in 2010 I think the factor is less - not non-existent which I recognise but certainly less.

That's the thing though LM - you expect everyoone to conform. Immigrant? - keep your head down and don't even try and talk about religion or anything else. Gay- We won't kill you any more but we'd prefer it if you never mentioned it and stopped that march shite. Not blindly patriotic - get out or await your death when the "decent" people take over. You want a nation of beaten down sheep who say nowt and think nowt and uphold your "values" - bad news the world's moved on.

Yeah I know and I realise that Alex - especially when you consider a lot of recruits come from the NE but I still think theres a large choice element. I don't go as far as calling them "Murderers" or anything like that (though that does apply to the SAS imo and they're usually careerists) but I stand by the lack of full sympathy.

Yes deliberately killing civilians in acts of terrorism ? I don't think so chum. Bloody Sunday. Massacres in Malaysia and Cyprus recentlt and if you go back further virtual genocides in India and Amarica. If you want to talk "innocent civilians" then using British troops is a very, very bad start.

Since they don't involve a uniform amd a "fair fight", does that mean that covert ops such as those done by the SAS are cowardly terrorism? do you find SAS or SBS blokes planting bombs and killing innocent civilians ? Give over man. Stop defending these wankers and support your own troops instead. Yes they do. Many tiimes now and in history. If you honestly think British forces have clean hands then you're even dafter than I thought. I don't support British troops - there hasn't been any "war" since 1945 that I would have supported - they'all been unjustified, imperialistic bollocks and being honest any fucker who signs up when conscription isn't in force gets no sympathy from me if they die.

Since they don't involve a uniform amd a "fair fight", does that mean that covert ops such as those done by the SAS are cowardly terrorism?

It serves the people who were dropped right for joining in the first place but you can't help wishing death on the whole sorry lot.

I was out and about today and the thaw is certainly under way - only pisser so far is my rear windscreen wiper snapped when I tried to ease it way from the glass.

Compared to pigs its a fart in a hurricane.

Pigs are as man-made as chickens, cows and sheep. I read a stat that claimed that before farming took off about 10k years ago humans and "our" animals made up 0.98% of vertebrates. Now that figure is 98%. They're a derivative of wild boar..... Yes but a couple of thousand wild boars running around the forests of England domesticated into a few million pigs is human intervention

Pigs are as man-made as chickens, cows and sheep. I read a stat that claimed that before farming took off about 10k years ago humans and "our" animals made up 0.98% of vertebrates. Now that figure is 98%.

It's the middle of the scale that matters though - if someone on the dole or minimum wage is fined £100 and a millionaire £20k say then how much do you fine someone on 100k? Would £1000 (10x £100) be a deterrent? - probably but at the same time they may "laugh it off" whereas the minimum wage person may strruggle. If you then take "make them wince" as your benchmark, would a fine of say £3k for the £100k person be fair or is that too much?

I first started to read up on evolution about 4 years ago, mainly so I could argue against creationists with confidence. Now though I find the whole subject absolutely fascinating and the timescales are probably the most mind-bogglling thing about it. Despite all the shit, I generally feel "proud" of how far our species has come in the last 10k years but even then as you say that's only 5% of our total time which is fuck all compared with the full total. I still expect us to be wiped out - whether by something we do or by nature which has proven before what a bastard it is - the only question is whether we escape the planet first.

They tried income related fines here a few years ago but the middle classes whinged so much it was quietly dropped. It's an interesting debate of setting real deterrents versus treating everyone equal. My view is that as long as the law is unbiased in terms of prosecution then theres room for punishments of scale once guilt is established.

Yes but the existence of domesticated animals is down to us so that isn't a get-out. I think the thing that concerns people who are aware of climate cycles is that the earth has bounced back from all of the "natural" ones but theres no idea whether theres something different about man-made effects that could fuck it completely. As for the current conditions it should be obvious but theres a difference between climate and weather - the last decade was still the warmest since the cliched records began.

I had to laugh at the prospects for the Boro match being described as "good" and phrases like "no problem" - I would have thought Strachan would have liked the Tango Twat to have given them another "convenient" day off.