NJS

They'll exempt it on the basis of "faith" which trumps all other cards.

Depends what they are used to though Chez - I'd imaginme that civil servants at that level would have a pretty priviledged background and may not be "streetwise" - maybe they'd just see being called an idiot as abuse. I'm not saying that would be okay for a "manager" to do but its a long way from some kind of mental torture.

Agree with this. I don't want to trivialise bullying as such, but adults ringing a fucking helpline is pathetic imo.

Am I alone in thinking Guthrie's problem is stamina? He seems to have decent spells in a game but fades in and out especially towards the end.

Did you pay for it yourself or did you get the team to go dutch? (I'll get me coat)

And of course Israel with complete impunity (and encouragement).

Not commited by the real enemy I'd guess. I think McVeigh seems to have been airbrushed out of the history of the "war" as well - not expedient to target White Americans.

Always have done as that's how I was taught - it seemed obvious to me. I was not taught it in my lessons but the last place I used to work my Boss always left the van in gear and I just picked up the habit. Nearly hit the side of the building the first time though as I never checked the stick. Leading on from that though I've always turned the ignition on with the clutch pressed.

Always have done as that's how I was taught - it seemed obvious to me.

Switched off.

Blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.

With a disclaimer that I haven't seen the incident, what a hypocrite Wenger is - anyone remember the thing about 3 years ago when Henry took a couple of quick free-kicks and Wenger said he had every right to do so?

Didn't the last Ice Age (and others before) drastically change the landscape though? That would render a lot of this supposed knowledge useless anyway. Surely a more likely explanation is people (who have seemingly explored throughout their history) rediscovered lands that were now hospitable again as a matter of course rather than because they knew where to go. Yeah my take is that the re-population of land freed from the ice was a natural one especially given it was still largely a hunter-gatherer lifestyle anyway. You also have to consider that there were other Hominids descended from Homo Erectus who had populated the same areas a couple of hundred thousand years before that by the same natural migration.

That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. So the "bogeymen" who commited Lockerbie, 9/11, 7/7 and the failed exploding undercrackers are figments of my government fuelled imagination, ah ok It was a two way thing - Islamic extremists needed a cause because they saw the "corruption" of Middle Eastern countries as evil and the Western governments were happy to encourage them and in some cases fund and train them. Even in the Islamic world "moderate" countries like Egypt were happy to have an enemy they could use to oppress dissent. Like most conflicts in the last 100 years involving "terrorism" there have been bastards on both sides as bad as each other - including "moral" governments of course. September the 11th was an undoubted atrocity but to claim it was "undeserved" or out of the blue given previous US actions is naive.

And all rucksacks just in case of course.

That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. haven't you just said in the other thread that being "unproven" doesn't necessarily mean "innocent" and advocate the taking out of someone "obviously responsible" You really think we should bear the cost of other countries torturing and imprisoning people ? No wonder this country is losing its way. Theres a difference bewteen Bin Laden and a few daft students who are misled into trying and failing miserably to join a cause. The point is torture is completely illegal and doesn't even work - as others have said today you either take the moral high ground and obey the law or you go down to the other person's level. If you do the latter then you should be prepared for payback.

The "human rights" you mock so easily are exactly what gives you the right to hold and express your views. The weren't handed down from on high - they had to be fought for over centuries. Now you want to chuck them away because you're scared of women in veils.

That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares.

My usual reaction to lies of this magnitude are to ask who the fuck do they think they are actually talking to when they spout them? I can remember years ago watching Geoffrey Howe on Question Time stating that the UK had no chemical or biological weapon capability or facilities and thinking the same. I can take politicians being economical with the truth, sometimes with complete honesty and ignorance, but when their lies are so stupidly brazen I don't think they realise how daft they look.

Don't know about here but I've had a good experience with another message board - a few very good friends made.

I was just talking to someone the other day how generally we've gone wrong since about the 17th century in that the people who run wars never get involved or suffer and things would have turned out differently if instead of thousands of cannon fodder dying, hit squads had just gone in and killed people like the German Kaiser or more recently Martin McGuinness (and his equivalent). hmmm.......advocating the murder of "innocent until proven guilty" people by SAS/SBS teams then ? No I'm talking about bringing the war to those obviously responsible on a personal level. That does not include people where there are doubts or collateral civilians.

I was just talking to someone the other day how generally we've gone wrong since about the 17th century in that the people who run wars never get involved or suffer and things would have turned out differently if instead of thousands of cannon fodder dying, hit squads had just gone in and killed people like the German Kaiser or more recently Martin McGuinness (and his equivalent).

Yeah but I didn't get the impression they were simply Israelis with European passports - maybe my mistake.

Surely the Israelis wouldn't need outside contractors? I suppose it could be a double bluff of deniability.

Blackcurrant jam - though I haven't particpated for years.