NJS

Snap - though the tie stays at home from tomorrow and remote access will be possible. Funny being somewhere where things are happening and people have things to do after how much the previous place had turned to shit. Of course I hadn't been fully set up on the systems so its nice to see how IT production uselessness is universal. Only dodgy thing is its one of those "let's all stay to 6:30/7:00 just to prove how dedicated we are" - don't mind it for a while but I'll migrate to my 5:00 bell soon. Love the way that's always blamed on IT like. I can't speak for other organisations but at ours, the main problem is that the employee number is used as the login ID (an HR decision, NOT an IT one). Conversely that means that we cannot create a new user account until HR have informed us what the employee number is. Only they refuse to generate that number until the day the person actually starts (i.e. so they don't generate an emp no. for someone who thinks "fuck it, i'll not bother turning up" which happens more than I thought). Result being the new starter doesn't get handed their login details until midway through the morning of their first day. Then most secondary logins have to be created after that a lot of them rely on active directory. Be fucking wonderful to live in a world whereby we flick a switch and the job is done - not in the least bit realistic though. Fair point - I agree on HR and would add internal auditors who come up with these procedures in the first place. Actual problem here is my boss's boss hasn't approved the AD setup in the workflow engine. I'm slightly suffering from moving to a bigger place - I can no longer twist the arm of a lad sitting opposite me to get things done or even worse ask him to log on as domain admin and let me do something. I always knew that was incredibly wrong but fuck me it allowed things to actually get done.

Snap - though the tie stays at home from tomorrow and remote access will be possible. Funny being somewhere where things are happening and people have things to do after how much the previous place had turned to shit. Of course I hadn't been fully set up on the systems so its nice to see how IT production uselessness is universal. Only dodgy thing is its one of those "let's all stay to 6:30/7:00 just to prove how dedicated we are" - don't mind it for a while but I'll migrate to my 5:00 bell soon. I fucking hate that attitude. My view is that bosses should think if you can't get your work done in 7.5/8 hours then you're fucking useless. I spent almost the whole of 2007 doing it (and more) out of complete necessity to get a huge project done and I got absolutely no credit for it when it came to bonus/pay rise - since then I've just thought I'd rather leave on time having done a decent shift and if that supposedly costs me a couple of grand then fuck them - Id rather have the time back.

Snap - though the tie stays at home from tomorrow and remote access will be possible. Funny being somewhere where things are happening and people have things to do after how much the previous place had turned to shit. Of course I hadn't been fully set up on the systems so its nice to see how IT production uselessness is universal. Only dodgy thing is its one of those "let's all stay to 6:30/7:00 just to prove how dedicated we are" - don't mind it for a while but I'll migrate to my 5:00 bell soon.

I have no problem with Barton dragging the cheat to his feet but the reaction to the "punch" was embarrassing. Will be interesting to see if Song gets the same video treatment Barton did for the Blackburn punch. Overall would have taken a point but last years problem has been completely un-addressed - absolutely no creativity. Cabaye looks tidy, Obertan is shit. The fact that Ameobi, Best and Lovenkrands still feature means we face a relegation fight imo.

A lot of people including me have criticised the way housing and schools are segregated in Ulster which is a piss poor start before anything else is taken into account. However I never realised how much that same policy was carried out in the past regarding immigration - a lad I worked with at my last place who's about 40 was brought up in Deptford and it surprised me when he told me how in South London when he was a kid there were white and black estates which meant white and black schools. Now of course I can understand immigrants wanting to stick together on arrival but it seems as if the whole thing was exaggerated and pandered to from the start. I suppose we should be thankful that despite that London as a whole has become a lot more mixed though obviously with pockets of segregation as well.

I saw that but need to know the basis for "bits of entropy" before embracing its correctness.

This is why for me that no matter how much I do think "they're scum", I also think it needs bigger answers - a lot of the time you just can't get decent people out of shit upbringings and I don't think they should be blamed 100% It's too easy for us who have been brought up properly to look down on them when it's not necessarily their fault.

I think at the core is the concept of "decency" - if shit loads of people don't honestly see anything wrong with looting then we're basically fucked. The stupid thing is I think as a whole "society" has improved over the last few decades - I know people don't believe it but there is less crime and shit like racism and homophobia along with other bigotries are less than what they used to be but there is still a huge problem with recognition of what is right and wrong at a fundamental level. As I said when discussing the NOTW thing I couldn't believe how the idea that coppers took money for information didn't cause the outrage I felt it should and as you say things like expense fiddling and tax avoidance seem to be seen as almost acceptable. This seems to me at least to show a conflict between how people generally behave and how easy it is for them to accept stuff they know is wrong when it suits - very worrying.

Have you been to Hackney Stevie? I went there once for a gig (Ash - fuck knows why they played there) and the only white people I saw were those at the gig. London is a big place but at the same time some of the areas are very segregated.

No I didn't have an opinion, I was just happy we were allowed away from school at dinner time three days running, that was my prime concern at the time. You stick up for the West end a lot in general which is fair enough but my point is that unforunately the most deprived areas produce the most "scum" in the sense of people who don't give a fuck, In London and other cities those areas happen to be the most "ethnic" which is something that should be addressed and as I've said there are some cultural aspects which are at work but in general as I said, deprivation = lack of decency. I think that's a bigger factor than race as it applies in non-racial areas like Tyneside and Glasgow. This goes back to an argument I had with LM a few months ago which got bogged down in racial make-up but I stand by the point that compared to LOndon, Tyneside is very white but shows the same variation in "decency" based on pockets 0f poverty.

Stevie when the people of Scotswood copied the scum from Meadowell that time did you think it was because they were inherently worse than the rest of the people of Tyneside?

APart from the obvious correlation between poverty in the black areas like Hackney.

That to me is the low point of what has been a shit summer - next 2 seasons completely written off from a football viewpoint. I don't care if he's 3rd/4th or 5th choice - he's absolute shite.

If you can be arsed with the hassle you'd make a lot more from selling them on ebay.

I'd say the percentages in Hackney and Tottenham as opposed to the whole of London are reflected in the rioters. Doesn't make me squirm to say they're black areas so I'd expect to see blacks.

but like I say questions need to be asked, without people like HF squirming with defensive stand points. Answering a question with a question shows signs of trying to take the power back, because someone doesn't like the question, I do it all the time in my job. The thing is that if everyone (as almost everyone has) says that yes, too many of the rioters are black then what's the next question? I think next questions like "Why is it harder for blacks to get out of those areas" or "What are the problems in black culture that make boys shit at school? are interesting ones whereas LM's next question would be "Why don't we send them back?" - that's why people tend to shy away because the underlying reason for pointing things out isn't to try and improve everyone's lives its to score points on their agendas.

I think the self-deprecation of making the fat bastard "Tree" is its crowning glory.

we've all seen for ourselves that the white folk have been involved too. Can't blame kay Burley for pulling him up on it. And he's far too little to be called big jim anyway It's the thought process I'm criticising. It's not about race in the orthodox sense but that a man can't report a factual event without being called a racist. People are thinking with very closed minds and it's a trend that you see constantly these days. People literally won't allow themselves to think without labelling something ''racist'' or ''offensive to'' etc etc. There's two sides to it imo - its "coincidence" that a lot of poor and rough inner city areas are predominately black but I've said before there are problems in black culture that should be allowed to be stated and discussed. Of course problems such as being gangster wanabees has spread to other Ethnic groups including Asians and Whites in London and elsewhere.

For 30 or 40 years now people have been told that the only measure of worth is wealth and material possessions so if you combine that with areas where it is harder to work hard and get out you're going to get opportunistic resentment. I don't know what the answer is - you could point to the 50s where people did swallow the "work hard and be useful" line more but there was less of a flaunting of riches then there is now which is another factor. Having said all that there is an underlying feeling that people willing to loot so readily are pretty much scum but even a leftie like me has always been aware of that problem when speaking up for deprived areas. I've always argued that you can be working class and "decent" being proud of my background but its becoming harder.

I saw one article headline which said "they feel like they have nothing to lose" - sad but true for too many of them. No excuse caveat of course.

I put the hate most one which is honest but at the same time on different days I could tick any of the others - they are all true to a certain degree. In the spirit of comradeship, Stevie, I got a caution when I was 16 for swearing too loud at Central Station (at a mate) but the copper wasn't a Mackem which I suppose shows more of a "All coppers are cunts" correlation rather than "all Mackems are cunts".

I do have sympathy for them operating in areas like that where too many idiots have guns but I'd have more respect if they just told the truth - even "we fucked up and a piece of shit got shot" is better than bullshit which always gets found out anyway.

You can get 3g dongles off Amazon from all the providers - I think three seem to be the best - you can get ones forabout £70 qhich have a few gig which can then be topped up but I have no feel for how long that would last based on style of useage.

your point is ? That as usual the police version of events which is taken as absolute truth is probably lies. Of course I don't condone opportunistic rioting and looting. Or doubt for a second that the bloke was criminal scum. omg You posted just couple of months ago that De Menezes ran from his chasers when the whole world knows it was a lie - they must love people like you.

Doubts over "exchange of fire"