NJS

Thing is as soon as you "celebrate" her death you do lose a tad morality wise which I'd accept if it was anyone else.

The reactions are very marmite like which is appropriate given how her abiding feature was divisiveness. Its going to be a sickening few days with all the plaudits.

RIH

Seen the clip of the fucker's jumper? - fucking hell.

It's a stormy mistress though - I was just thinking I was happy Wigan had lost because of the tackle follow-up but seeing Redknapp's saggy face drop even further was great.

Thought the ref was generally shit and channeling Le Tissier booking a player for celebrating a goal which could keep his team up is a pedantic cunt's trick.

Thank the fucking Lord. Couldn't see it coming but you've always got a chance with an instinctive goalscorer in the team.

More teams like Stoke and Norwich involved the better.

Noticing Doncaster on Ssn I wonder if its a trend that quite a few of the shitbag clubs that play a song when they score are in Yorkshire or Lancashire.

Explain how the countries with policies opposite to hers progressed more.

Yes but going to Spain for a fortnight I would say is now a working class standard which would have been unthinkable in the 60s/70s. Increasing living standards has applied across the board - I'd say a middle class travel standard now would be a long haul holiday with quite a few mini-breaks.

It's more a symptom of MPs (of all parties) living by the notion that they are somehow different and the rules don't apply to them that gets me.

I've said before that I think the Catholic church is the most evil inrtitution on Earth and I stand by that - its also the one I have the most knowledge of and the most reason to reject personally which I'm happy to do and I recognise the insanity of the other others but I still think Islam stands out. That's not my view of Muslims - I mostly see them as victims of their culture and regret that most don't have the simple choice of opting out that others have in other parts of the world. The reason I see Islam as more of a threat is geo-political rather than necessarily theological (though as I say I think thats bad as well) and of course the western nations have played a part in that with their actions in the middle east. However the mix of Islam, culture and history does make the mix more toxic than other areas. I think its a shame that South America and Africa are under the thrall of catholicism and/or toxic brands of christianity but in general they are being "corrupted" nicely by western ideals and I think they'll be okay evenetually. The problem with the Islamic world is that though western influence is having an affect, their starting point is much lower.

About what I expected but you're always disappointed by the details that lead to the results. Not game over but will need a brilliant performance to get through.

It is a particularly abhorrent religion though. Of course theres a cultural element and there are examples of nutjobs across all the others but if you combine FGM, general mysogyny and the brutality of sharia nothing else comes close.

THere are aspects of Harris' writing which I've always rejected but I have no problem agreeing that Islam deserves special mention when it comes to the threat to the world. Obviously that doesn't mean I recognise that the US reaction to it isn't a huge factor but trying to say that Islam is the same as Buddhism (for example) in this contect is bollocks.

It's the typical trick of the theist to try and argue about the the word "believe" in order to equate atheism with religion. I think Renton has it right with his use of positive/negative atheists fwiw. I have no problem saying I believe there are no gods in the same way I believe any number of things including the laws of science. I always feel using the "lack of belief" defiinition while true doesn't cover it entirely as you have to match the "positivity" of religionists to indicate where you are coming from.

Fair enough if we can have a debate about all the people that have comitted suicide because of his benefit changes as well.

You're possibly right on the pensioner thing - my Mam used to read it occasionally and she certainly wasn't politically naive but said she could ignore their bile and still use it just to pass the time.

I think I've said before that there must be something wrong with people who read the mail - the number I see reading it on the train on the way into work who by the so called values of that paper have a really good life but still need hate figures to make them "happy" suggests a deep psychosis and a definite unwllingness to examine those values in the light of what must be deep-rooted unhappiness. I'd love to see a poster campaign at the next election along the lines of "Read the Mail? - then you're a cunt".

I almost agree - when we used to argue with LM about how free speech meant you had to take views you found abhorrent on the chin he couldn't accept it and it can sometimes be hard. I think that maybe its long enough since WWII for people to now say Fascism is wrong but "acceptable" within the free speech remit but I think in its particular case there are a lot of people who still see it as a special case given the history and I can understand that. I don't think Di Canio is a racist and it is possible to have ultra-nationlist views without that side of it (though its a stretch) but having said that as others have said when its a club whose fans like to talk a strange line in moral superiority and also like to play the working class card more than most it is particularlly funny to see them squirm. Also I think some of their posts on the SMB regarding the miners union are especially loathsome.

I obviously consider myself a damn good cynic but the two-way conspiracy of parents and churches conflating baptism/church attendance with school placing is a whole different level. Obviously not getting at Cath here btw - I know you are still what counts as a proper catholic these days.

A tiny fraction I'd guess - and that would also presume that they will never work for a full 50 years to make that kind of point. Duncan-Smith keeps talking about three generational families who've never worked - despite scouring the country he hasn't been able to find a single example (apart from the Windsors obviously).

I'd like to think its changed for the most part since I left school ( which is more than 20 years ago ) - I went to a Christian Brothers school and it was very much "Catholics are fine, everyone else will burn in hell". However they couldn't stop the real world and even though there was still constant prayers and masses, most teachers knew that y the time we reached 16 (never mind 18) most of us didn't believe any more. I do vehemently oppose Faith schools on principle but I know that they aren't the brainwashing institutions I and others sometimes say they are when arguing the case. I just find it sad the hoops people have to go through to get "good" schools when I think it wouldn't take that much to ensure all schools were good. (Of course there are still some schools which go too far and I'd close them in a heartbeat).

It's looking obvious they didn't have a clue there'd be this kind of fallout - either very naive, ignorant or arrogant - as well as funny obviously - maybe all four.