NJS

I sort of agree with that but it doesn't suit either end of the spectrum - you could argue a middle ground compromise makes sense but the divide is too fractious for that to be accepted.

That's exactly what I was saying a couple of days ago - I think a lot of the "leavers were stupid" school of pv advocates have still not acknowledged why people voted and suggested action (I don't think leavers were right but I understand some of the underlying attitudes).

Maybe "scares" is the wrong word but as I've said, I think those assuming its outcome are taking it too much for granted.

I've heard/read several "we used to rule seas" type statements from leavers since the ref - hence the remark about wanting to return not to the 1950s but to the 1590s.

They are but still substantial. It seems to be a cities versus rural split generally. I see Clinton is thinking of running again - that'll ensure he wins again.

Never been a huge fan of Gordon Brown but he seems to have talked a lot of sense today.

I've heard people going on about fighting for freedom and what would have happened if Germany had "won". Considering the vague reasons for the war in the first place I think if there had been an agreed ceasefire at any point without a winner as many wars have finished I think the world would actually be a better place. I don't think the Nazis would have arisen but for the punitive reparations imposed in "defeat".

I was possibly reading too much into Barnier's "just say the word" rhetoric about revocation. I'm unsure about the second vote because another campaign would be divisive again and I'm not sure the result would be as clearcut as we on the sensible side hope which wouldn't bring any sense of closure. It does make sense but I think the sense of superiority and attitude of the supporters is very unhelpful.

I don't think you're to blame at all. That's definitely Cameron and the swivel eyed tories plus Murdoch and Dacre. I also agree the harder end of the spectrum are ignoring the remain voters but that's par for course given they're cunts anyway.

Legally article 50 can be revoked, politically its a non-starter.

40 years of at best centrism suggests you're wrong.

I meant that in the sense you give the impression of wanting to stick two fingers up to all the leavers to the greatest extent. I also think Norway or some form of it is the best way forward now.

I'm all for calling out the stupidity of most leave voters as I've said before but ultra remainers like Renton completely ignore the fact that millions haven't changed their minds and won't. If they get their ideal where a centrist Labour party emerges with a soft brexit then none of the reasons all of those people in disaffected towns outside london will be addressed and worse than that they will hate "the elite" who made up a lot of their reasoning even more. I'm not saying that would lead to anything as bad as Trump but at best millions would feel disengaged with democracy altogether.

I still don't see what he can do without the votes in parliament - so called heroes like Soubry have never voted against the government. I'd love to know what youd want him to do or I suppose a replacement - how would Cooper stop brexit without the votes?

Looks like we lost anything about Sessions and probably Rosenstein going the journey - the corrupt cunt didn't exactly waste any time after the midterms - I hope Mueller gets his indictments out this week.

It'll drive him mental and we'll see more toys being thrown out. It looks good that a lot of the dem winners are young and more lefty than the Clinton type.

Prediction - these will get a larger punishment than anyone involved in the actual tragedy.

That lass off c4 news should have hoofed Banks right in the clems for the way he was speaking to her yesterday. Odious piece of shit doesn't even begin to cover him.

Quick wiki search suggests latest estimate is 20 vets a day which over 17 years just about gets there. On the bigger picture thing I think Gemmill has it right - pointless even attempting to fix the future now. We're fucked, plain an simple. (Short of immediate development of fusion and fusion powered ftl drives leading to fucking off).

He also called PFI labour's legacy - I think it was wrong but he didn't mention major started it all and Osborne signed off a deal bigger than all the labour ones combined.

I might have got it wrong but that's what I thought he said - that's since 2001 obviously not yearly. Maybe it was treated for suicidal tendencies.

Ex US soldiers - 4.5 million served in the middle East.

Aye, the more you learn about him, the more it seems like he was the anti-ashley.

It's making me think how different it would have been if it had been Ashley - don't think it would have gone as far as people celebrating but it would have been a push to find grief.

More centrists biting the dust.....