NJS

Yeah I've read stuff about ukip cunts taking over tory associations for a few years now. That's why a lot of the "moderate" ones like Grieve are facing reselection - even before brexit.

Lesson of the day is don't bother celebrating any goal ever again until the game restarts with a kick off.

I meant in the last 20/30 years than it was before that going back to 50s/60s and beyond- aside from support and refuges etc it was harder for women to make it on their own without family support and with society probably looking down on them. Certainly in my lifetime its easier than it was in my parent's generation and before that. As I said I know I'm being a bit naive about how some lives work (sadly) but it still seems wrong for someone to suffer so unnecessarily for so long.

I might be an idealistic, simplistic, sexist pig but I'd question how she could stay with him that long - I'm not saying it's easy for women to escape situations like that but it's easier than it used to be. I'd also question the non-acrions of grown sons if they knew what was going on.

Supposedly discounted Lascelles as he can't play it out yet picks his favourites who can't do it either.

I think Chez posted something at the time saying he'd spoken to ceo level people who had no trouble admitting they were going to vote for him based simply on the tax cuts. Add in the blue collar workers in the rust states who actually believed he was going to reopen mines and steel plants plus the evangelicals who think he's actually a Christian and you have a big caucus.

Umunna was happy to stand on the 2017 manifesto but recently admitted he didn't believe in any of it. MPs like Bridget are anti-Corbyn and probably more centrist than I would like but I don't believe for one minute they reject decent left wing policies out of hand.

My contracting days are well past :). The commute thing can be a huge deal. I feel I waste about 2.5 hours a day even if that means I'm quite well paid so I can see the appeal. Last time I was looking for a job 5 years ago I was looking at both contract and perm jobs and a contract came up paying City rates but in Chelmsford. I would have reclaimed all that time and been able to lie-in or go for a really good gym session first thing. I almost begged the agent for an interview but the problem was it was in insurance and they're really funny about IT and usually only consider people with experience in that field so I missed out. I didn't get the commute/travel point in your first post so I'd now say go for it

The only way I'd take a paycut would be if my commute was eliminated altogether - I think they've got a nerve undercutting you by that much (your ot). I'd argue the case but be pretty firm.

I think he'll beat someone uninspiring like Biden.

I meant the perception that fom is a bad thing and has adverse effects - of course it can do but generally it's a plus. I also think education on how the EU works and yes, suggesting change should be a part of it.

Thats very good and covers the basics - need to address fom and the take back control etc bollocks as well though.

Very fair point.

I don't think anyone's said leave voters are a bigger part but they are a part - as I said yesterday addressing the whys and wherefores of that is as important as the Brexit debate.

He's very pro-remain - he just thinks like me that another ref isn't the easy panacea others do.

Being honest I suspect he still thinks if there was a GE and he could get a better deal than May's then he'd say it isn't necessary.

Still depends on intent/ambition though - when I heard about a billionaire buying us in 2007 we all thought we'd be spending big and that turned to shit.

I think they're also over hyping the "never happened on this planet before" angle - I think three mile island was pretty similar in terms of potential disaster.

I haven't watched it yet but when we went to Kiev in 2003 we did a city bus tour and the guide stated in a very matter of fact way that the wind was blowing away from Kiev that day and they reckon if it had been reversed they were looking at 50k deaths. Could be a scare story but it certainly had that affect on me. We were playing Leicester away that weekend and I remember it pissing down for about three days and I've always wondered how big a dose we got - they mentioned Cumbria taking the brunt so I was "glad" to be out of the North. I have no clue if there was a spike in cancer stats in the UK.

More democracy, less coupling with ecb and its austerity agenda, wiggle room for state intervention. I still think the vision of a block big enough to rival the US, China and the rest makes sense and we should play a full part in it but I can see its a hard sell.

I agree on the need for internal reform - just saying external reform should be on the table too. I think back to years of Thatcher etc selling negotiations with the EU as going to war - if we do somehow remain we need to change that attitude which has been central to the problem.

Even in the short term arguing that "going back to where we were" is good won't win over that many staunch leave voters. We need to provide a vision of hope beyond that - including attempting to reform the EU.

Definitely - but on the other hand supposing remaining will solve all the problems is wrong as well which is why I think supporting the liberals or even a realigned Labour party is pointless - it's the addressing of why they were easily misled that's the way forward.

I think the intellectual thing was a direct dig at Paul Mason who laid into him. I can sort of see his pov in that as I've argued here, there is a lack of empathy with leave voters from strong remainers which is why I have doubts about a surefire victory for remain in another vote. However I think we/they also have to think of the future and ensure Labour appeals to younger voters even if means writing off older "traditional" supporters in the the North and other ex-industroal areas.

That's the cunt who predicted we were going to do a Leeds/Portsmouth and were heading for admin when Shepherd was in charge - ironic considering where they are at the moment.