NJS

Almost?

Fucking Pardew's conned another set of poor cunts into giving him a job I see - Den Haag in the Netherlands.

One word answer to the main question posed - karma - and it's a bitch.

I don't believe in xmas really but I do believe that all men are fundamentally arse men at their core. Other benefits not withstanding. Happy arse day.

The blue number 1 is all that matters.

I really hope she up's her game from last time - for the good of the contest.

I think there's a decent choice developing - I hope they don't become obsessed with the need for it to be a woman.

I've joined up today as well - looks like we could have a TT branch of our own.

I love the idea that a leader has to be "one of our own" and not middle class elite - like Tony Blair?

I read something about a lot of older voters thinking they paid into a system which extends beyond tax and NI - they've stayed patriotic and quiet, saluted the Queen and the flag and now feel they're entitled to keep what they have and more so expect deferential treatment when it comes to health and care - especially over non-Whites. Hence the GP surgeries full of foreigners trope. I think this is an extreme view but one where I see elements being true. These are the people who supposedly reacted most strongly to Corbyn.

Some extremely questionable jocks there.

As I was saying yesterday people are so used to problems with the NHS to a degree they sort of accept it and think it's too costly or too much effort to change. When I try and tell them that waiting lists were all but abolished under Blair they think it's bullshit. (Yes on certain issues they did really well, as I've said I just think they accepted the status quo on things like housing and privatisation as well)

Not reopening the pits but some investment would have been nice. Some social housing. Thing is people have been told for 40 years that we cant afford anything, things we did own have been sold to the rich and I think the generation im a part of and older just don't believe it's possible no matter how well it's costed or how desirable. They's rather believe in fucking Brexit. I don't even think the Labour manifesto was even that socialist - all it aimed to do was to restore a resemblance of balance. That may seem like going backwards but I'd say it was a reset to when the idea of a government working for everybody was abandoned. I'ts very simplistic to say that this defeat means the end of any notion of socialism - by that argument the defeats of 2015 and 2010 show that nobody wants a centrist agenda either.

I don't ignore them but if you were a retired miner who hadn't had a decent job since the pits closed, you may think all those things are minor in comparison to your own lot in life. Even if you'd seen your kids go to university you'd probably have then seen them leave their home towns.

That NL did fuck all for those people either - at least as far as those people are concerned.

I'm sure Edwards thinks that, but there's still no believable explanation of the cenotaph/laughter episodes in my view. That's before considering the punch thing - admittedly that wasn't BBC alone but it came from the same area - "correspondents" happily acting as conduits for Cummings' lies.

Unfortunately I've read a couple of things which suggest Renton is right (shock horror I know) about shite like saluting the flag and a willingness to incinerate millions of people for no logical reason whatsoever (I think Ewerk said this as well). The same mentality had a big effect on the actual brexit ref as well - this idea of know-towing to the monarchy/empire and a nostalgia for olden (more white) years where Britain was more important. It's a hard one for the people trying to persuade them as the underlying xenophobia is the opposite of what Labour should be and is all about to the youth. Of course Blair played that game but Milliband certainly tried and seemed to fail the same doorstep test to a lesser degree than Corbyn. I think we do need someone who can play that role unflinchingly to counteract the media assassination - of the mooted candidates and can only really say Starmer succeeding.

I think there's been discussions and debates at Labour conferences about PR without really getting anywhere - maybe there'll be more now.

It's not for me - someone deliberately decided to edit out the laughter and happened to insert an put of date clip which was better for him - mistakes my arse. I think the "majority he so deserves" could have been a slip where she meant to say "desires" but the other two still rankle.

Why the fuck is he playing Atsu on the right and Joelinton on the left?

I posted that - it's right that nl took the heartlands for granted and the hi-tech job delivery never happened.

Problem was there were no alternative left wing candidates - that's a shame in itself as the centrists who scream about a broad church didn't think that church should go that far with their MP selections.

You're right to an extent but the danger is that the next question is so why did the crash happen? I know the answer but the argument was mainly lost.

I think that was the plan mooted in 2017 - franchise expiration works for the trains but maybes not for the others as it happens.

I agree - but I'd add that a lot of older cunts like you and me have had the ambition beaten out of us by the decades.