Park Life

They knew that all along though didn't they. The hype was all about big Pharma shifting a lot of expensive nonsense onto clueless hysteria driven Governments. The French Govt are holding an enquiry btw on what actually happenned and how it was coerced very fast into some very dodgy descisions. Polands health minishter refused to buy the vaccine point blank and must be applauded for saving them money and their people a lot of aggro and fear. I'm not sure what was more predictable, you saying this was one big conspiracy or Renton biting Anyway power to the people!! Even with all the corporate owned media spreading fear every fucking day for months they resisted.

They knew that all along though didn't they. The hype was all about big Pharma shifting a lot of expensive nonsense onto clueless hysteria driven Governments. The French Govt are holding an enquiry btw on what actually happenned and how it was coerced very fast into some very dodgy descisions. Polands health minishter refused to buy the vaccine point blank and must be applauded for saving them money and their people a lot of aggro and fear.

Uptake of swine flu? Uptake of the vaccine. Even with Murdochs son on the board of GSk and the massive hype that followed...WE the people resisted. If the outbreak had been severe, and the vaccine had saved many lives, would you have posted this? The potential of 0 is 0 dear Renty. Anyway, we can only wait for the next scare such is our lot.

Uptake of swine flu? Uptake of the vaccine. Even with Murdochs son on the board of GSk and the massive hype that followed...WE the people resisted.

Lost on pens in the previous round.

Under 10% uptake in most of Europe..Only 6% in Germany and 5% in France. ...and they really tried with this one.

Agreed.

The Popular Peoples Front of Judea!

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums. Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately. the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel. Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde? i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it. Look at the maps mate. You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years? EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance. legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on. the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks. from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate. personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements. but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done. That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews. "Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants." of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state. The Jews in any significant numbers themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth. The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq. The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up. Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan. Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons. They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines. Palestine is actually a Roman corruption of the word Phillistine iirc. Gloom, If you come into this thread and start shooting your mouth off it might be wise to have some scant understanding of the topic first.

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums. Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately. the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel. Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde? i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it. Look at the maps mate. You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years? EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance. legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on. the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks. from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate. personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements. but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done. That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews. "Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants." of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state. The Jews themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth. The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq. The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up. Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan. Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons. They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines.

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums. Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately. the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel. Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde? i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it. Look at the maps mate. You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years? EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance. legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on. the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks. from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate. personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements. but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done. That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews. "Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

"Heavy handed" has got to be the understatement of the year. "Some 1.3 million Palestinians, most of them refugees, have been squeezed into the Gaza Strip – one of the most densely populated areas in the world". Btw the numbers of American Jews moving back to Israel AND into the occupied territories grows by the day, this is part of the Israeli states policy of ethnic cleansing former Palestinian areas. Israel - When Nisan and Gilan Gertz stepped off the plane at Ben-Gurion International Airport with their children last August, they were seven of almost 4,000 North Americans to make aliyah in 2009 - the largest number to do so in a single year since 1983. There were a lot of reasons that the Gertzes chose to move their new home in Beit Shemesh, some 25 miles west of Jerusalem, from their home in Passaic, N.J. There was "inspiration and spirituality," as Nisan describes it. "For the first time in 2,000 years, we can live in a sovereign nation that's Jewish." But money was also an issue. Four of the Gertzes' five children - the oldest is 15, the youngest is 3 - were enrolled at Jewish day schools, which together cost the family upward of $50,000 per year in tuition. Advertisement: "All of our money was being dumped into the increasing cost of education and the increasing cost of health care," said Nisan, who is an architect specializing in the development of hospitals while his wife is a clinical social worker. "I describe it as being on a treadmill." The summer home they'd always wanted, the yearly vacations to nice places, all seemed less and less attainable as tuition bills mounted. "We were running and running and running, and never going anywhere." With unemployment rates hovering at around 10 percent (more than double what they were two years ago), one ripple effect of America's recession is increased immigration to Israel. It is no panacea. But unemployment there is hovering at around 8 percent, while the economy overall has contracted less than in the United States and now appears on the way back to growth. "Israel has proved to be resilient to this particular global shock," the International Monetary Fund noted admiringly in a January report. Then there are the actual cash incentives Israel offers to ease the way for those immigrating under the country's Law of Return, which offers automatic citizenship to anyone with at least one Jewish grandparent. The Ministry of Immigrant Absorption provides about $4,000 per adult and about $2,000 per child to these immigrants, paid out over seven months. Immigrants are also entitled to free education up to the master's degree level and are customarily granted a 70 percent to 90 percent reduction on their property taxes. Plus, they receive discounts and tax waivers on Israeli-made appliances. If that is not enough, additional financial help is available from Nefesh B'Nefesh, a relatively new nongovernmental organization that facilitates immigration for American Jews. About 70 percent of the immigrants apply for this, according to Danny Oberman, the organization's executive vice president of Israeli operations. The amount of these grants covers a "wide range," he said. "The more we have, the more we give away."

You should know the yanks are eyeing all that fresh clean water you guys have.

All the rocket tech and nukes they got from Germans. The first road cars were also invented by Germans, Benz if I iirc..I thought Konrad Zuse (yes Renton not an american name ) the GERMAN invented the first computer in 1936... Soooo, I'll give you consumer goods. Is there really any point of the likes of you and tooner posting in this thread, it is beyond doubt you are both ridiculously knowledgeless... Peace. .....because I don't have the seething hatred of americans that you do, I am clueless?......ok, whatever. "Seething hatred".. In the defence of America I will say that the PEOPLE often in times of trouble and need show a very big heart and genorosity." [Parky/] I merely present facts dear. Deal wiv it. Whatever. Let's put the wars aside a minute the criminal, fraudulent and destructive american banking system is single handedly fucking up the financial viability of 3/4 of the planet. It is the worlds biggest polluter bar none, it is the first worlds most undereducated country by a mile....IT IS A FUCKING BASKET CASE. I can only think some people in this thread are watching Top Gun round the clock. .....well maybe not seething but but you've got some issues with america. as I stated before i don't condone or side with american foreign policy or military actions, my point was only that the outcome of the second world war was due to the co-operation of ALL the allied countries and any attempt at detracting from or qualifying the contribution from any allied country does a dis-service and dishonor to the 100,000's of people from those countries who gave there lives. .....so whatEVAR. I can't remember are you Canadian?

I go easy on you these days....I've noticed vulernabilities it would seem crass and unethical to exploit.

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums. Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately. the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel. Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

All the rocket tech and nukes they got from Germans. The first road cars were also invented by Germans, Benz if I iirc..I thought Konrad Zuse (yes Renton not an american name ) the GERMAN invented the first computer in 1936... Soooo, I'll give you consumer goods. Is there really any point of the likes of you and tooner posting in this thread, it is beyond doubt you are both ridiculously knowledgeless... Peace. .....because I don't have the seething hatred of americans that you do, I am clueless?......ok, whatever. "Seething hatred".. In the defence of America I will say that the PEOPLE often in times of trouble and need show a very big heart and genorosity." [Parky/] I merely present facts dear. Deal wiv it. Whatever.

Soros lead secret fund manager meeting a few weeks back would say otherwise. Agree on clamping down on derivities etc CDS's for sure. Two minds about this as a counter strike by Euro funds might take down Goldman Sachs, a day which I will celebrate with mucho drinko.

Never heard of him.

The attacks on the Greek financial system is a masked attack on the Euro. Big player american hedge funds have started shorting the Euro in allignment..Greece is the weakest link in the Euro chain. It is partly to protect dollar positons, but also a long play attack on the Euro Govts facing debt scenarios inc GB. The Parky Quantum labs also see perhaps a threat to Barclays which is holding on by a thread. I'm still sticking to my April 2nd dip scenario. Greek crisis will fallout and also pehaps hit Spain and Portugal who aren't looking good either. GB needs to stay clear and support the pound. Peace.

It's really sad when you see those maps and the increased ghettoisation of the Palestinians.

All the rocket tech and nukes they got from Germans. The first road cars were also invented by Germans, Benz if I iirc..I thought Konrad Zuse (yes Renton not an american name ) the GERMAN invented the first computer in 1936... Soooo, I'll give you consumer goods. Is there really any point of the likes of you and tooner posting in this thread, it is beyond doubt you are both ridiculously knowledgeless... Peace. Virtually all Americans are basically immigrants anyway though so that's why you can argue idea 1) 2) or 3) originally came from x, y or z but it says a lot about the country that those ideas were able to flourish in America. Don't think Benz was an immigrant mate. Nazi Germany was light years ahead of the rest of the world in terms of hi tech stuff hence Von Braun and the rocket programme and the heavy water plants in the mountains. America on the other hand history records wiped out the native Americans and followed it with the use of mass slavery. Yeah, I was making a more general point. I'm not all pro-America by any means as you know but there is much to admire in the American dream and the embracing of different ideas from around the world etc. A lot of the success of America is a fluke based on its resources but it's also down to it being a young country which has always embraced immigration and hasn't had the shackles of a rigid class structure to overcome. Fair enough. I propose the American dream will be exosed as a myth in times to come, one certainly that had a very short shelf life. It is the case that the war itself destroyed all our fiancial might however and with that our ability to take the commonwealth to the next level as a worldwide trading and ideas board. In the defence of America I will say that the PEOPLE often in times of trouble and need show a very big heart and genorosity.

cos they could afford it. we couldnt as we'd just given them all wor cash (in a manner of speaking). How had we just given them all our cash if they'd just given us massive loans? Don't think too hard about that one btw. well duh! hark at you. at that point we were massively in debt to them. therefore they were flush (lots of assets you see) and we wernt. i was always told that the loans were in the form of material goods anyway, not cash. ie they then gave us material goods (tanks, bullets, food etc.) and we paid them back over the following 50 odd years. Still means they were solvent and we wernt. basic finances, you should try it sometimes! The previous post re: the dishwashers etc. was a flippant one but that doesn't alter the fact that the US made us financially better off after the war than we would have been had they not supplied the loans etc. They were richer than us, aye, but we were skint because of the war, not because we'd just given America all our money, which was what you said. They actually supplied us with stuff we needed at a fraction of its true cost. It was stuff we needed as well. As an aside, I think a lot of the problems with post-War Britain was a resistance to modernisation. This stretched well beyond the immediate post-war years into the 60s and 70s. You have to wonder why so many other countries even more devastated by war were able to cope so much better in this period. Personally I put it down to the ruling classes clinging onto power, land and so on. Well, only 2 or 3 EU countries peform better than us economically in the post-war period and only for certain periods of time. The Germans dont have an army, so 30% of their tax revenues can be invested into other areas. The French position themselves at the heart of the new EU power structures and therefore benefit from protectionist policies and from close economic ties with the Germans. The EU project was all about keeping these two from war, so the economic gains for them (seen post 1950 onwards) were substantial. Its no coincidence that De Gaulle wanted us kept away form this new relationship. The Italians do ok for certain periods but only out perform us during the 70's when we were again bankrupt. It was in 1976 that we went to the IMF for money, an avenue the EU has been desperate to avoid with the Greeks. I'd say from an economic perspective, the Dutch disease of the early 70s and the lack of participation in the EU projects of the 50s and 60s strained our overall economic performance. The Germans and French also have the advantage of not getting involoved in Project America wars.

I actually said in a manner of speaking. it was not supposed to be taken literally. apologies for dumbing my posts down.